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Thread: Why FSS mode must stay

  1. #196
    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    Am i missing something here? This isnt right is it? If you are "exploring" in the bubble then you get the system map for free. Boldly go where no man has gone before and you will soon change your mind.
    Why would he change his mind? If he likes it now, why would he stop liking it as he is now not using the system map when out in unexplored space?

  2. #197
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    Why would he change his mind? If he likes it now, why would he stop liking it as he is now not using the system map when out in unexplored space?
    Based upon the fact that he thinks he continued to explore the old way and based on the comment about how nothing has changed, im going to hazard a guess that he doesnt actually know what hes talking about (like quite a few of the FSS people) Once he experiences the pain misery and bordom of the FSS he is likely to change his mind. You see, its sht max.... the only way you could explore "the old way" would be to try and... for want of abetter term, brute force you way thru every system. Very few players will be able to tolerate that gameplay. These days you travel past rather than explore, maybe cherry pick an WW or an EL and ignore the rest.... cause its too much trouble. Again, no normal player could tolerate spying out every planet of every system.

  3. #198
    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    Based upon the fact that he thinks he continued to explore the old way and based on the comment about how nothing has changed, im going to hazard a guess that he doesnt actually know what hes talking about (like quite a few of the FSS people).
    I will just leave this here from the quote.

    Originally Posted by CMDR Eusebio Jameson View Post (Source)
    The first couple of weeks after 3.3. was released I continued to explore "the old way", but now I'm liking the new FSS mode more and more, thank you developers!
    You conveniently ignore this part. But please continues.

    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    Once he experiences the pain misery and bordom of the FSS he is likely to change his mind.
    What pain, misery and bordom of the FSS. And as you keep saying you have never used it, you are not a person who can judge, or have you used it now?

    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    You see, its sht max.... the only way you could explore "the old way" would be to try and... for want of abetter term, brute force you way thru every system. Very few players will be able to tolerate that gameplay.
    I don't want to explore the old way, because you know what, it was utter crap. I put up with it for three years in the hope something would get done, and gave up in the fourth year. I am now a happy explorer again, far happier then what I have ever been when exploring. The old version of exploring was like watching paint dry and with virtually zero interaction with the game world. I mean, you may like watching paint dry. Not my cup of tea though. I like to play a game, and a game without gameplay is no game at all.

    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    These days you travel past rather than explore, maybe cherry pick an WW or an EL and ignore the rest.... cause its too much trouble. Again, no normal player could tolerate spying out every planet of every system.
    And you have what to back this up with. I am exploring out there and it is evident that not everyone cherry picks, in fact it is very rare to come accross a system that has been cherry picked. The only cherry picking I do is with the probing of planets. No point in me probing a planet I can't land on as far as I am concerned.

    Cherry pickers will cherry pick, completionist will complete, and sometimes people will do a mixture of the two. That has not changed. What you write is pure hyperbole and has no facts to back it up. But please continue, I like a good laugh.

  4. #199
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    But please continues.
    No i dont think i will. You keep on working on that post count.

  5. #200
    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    No i dont think i will. You keep on working on that post count.
    I dont give a rats backside about my post count. The only person who seems to care is you as you are the only one that brings it up.

  6. #201
    Originally Posted by CMDR Eusebio Jameson View Post (Source)
    You don't have to. You can
    a) Assign the Discovery scanner to a fire group
    b) Look in Options|Controls|Mode Switches how to switch HUD mode
    c) Select the fire group that has the scanner (if not already selected), switch into exploration scanner mode (if not already in exploration mode)
    d) Jump into systems, honk, look at the system map, fly to points you find interesting, do everything as before and you don't have to look at the FSS screen not even once.

    In all, you need a minimum amount of additional keystrokes from time to time to continue to do things "the old way" (depending on how much you mix combat and exploration, if you aren't going into combat it could be as little as a single keystroke for your entire game session)

    The "new feature" that you won't be able to turn off is that your scanner now also scans on proximity even if you haven't selected the stellar body (and I think that people desiring to turn that off are really in a very small minority)

    The first couple of weeks after 3.3. was released I continued to explore "the old way", but now I'm liking the new FSS mode more and more, thank you developers!
    You are assuming I get to see the full system map after the honk, that's not the case.

  7. #202
    Thing is for me I like the fact that now I can get details on every planet/star - previously when jumping into a system if there was more than 1 star and the secondary was over 5kls away chances are it would never be mapped.

    So there were/are huge swathes of 'explored' systems which are not explored at all.

    You can still do travel as fast - but you just no longer get rewarded for simply honking and running - want some explorer credits - at least do something rather than holding a button till the computer goes 'dnnnnnddnd'

  8. #203
    Originally Posted by JustJon View Post (Source)
    Thing is for me I like the fact that now I can get details on every planet/star - previously when jumping into a system if there was more than 1 star and the secondary was over 5kls away chances are it would never be mapped.

    So there were/are huge swathes of 'explored' systems which are not explored at all.

    You can still do travel as fast - but you just no longer get rewarded for simply honking and running - want some explorer credits - at least do something rather than holding a button till the computer goes 'dnnnnnddnd'
    I like that too, I just wish we didn't have to suffer the blob game.

  9. #204
    Originally Posted by Burke View Post (Source)
    Based upon the fact that he thinks he continued to explore the old way and based on the comment about how nothing has changed, im going to hazard a guess that he doesnt actually know what hes talking about (like quite a few of the FSS people) Once he experiences the pain misery and bordom of the FSS he is likely to change his mind. You see, its sht max.... the only way you could explore "the old way" would be to try and... for want of abetter term, brute force you way thru every system. Very few players will be able to tolerate that gameplay. These days you travel past rather than explore, maybe cherry pick an WW or an EL and ignore the rest.... cause its too much trouble. Again, no normal player could tolerate spying out every planet of every system.
    I have been doing that brute forcing methodology in the Soul Nebula for a week or two. The idea was to look for lifeforms and vents I hadn't yet seen, maybe some NSPs if I was lucky (I wasn't). I also wanted to see what values I got back from scanning and mapping different bodies. Yes, I could just look it up, but I like doing things myself in a game. Might as well sit around watching Minecraft videos if I just wanted to play Youtube.

    The method has been simple: Plan a few transects through the nebula, running on Economy mode (seems to be 10 - 20 lys in old Betsy) and mapping all systems with interesting (landable planets, planets of different other types, former high-value planets, whatever else I could find.

    Yes, exploring with the FSS is mind-numblingly dull to run that way - scanning everything in the FSS and then flying out to everything interesting to lob probes at it. I scanned a few gas giants because why not? And maybe NSPs in rings would be revealed that way? I still don't know if they do, haven't found a single one yet. Did find a few nice photo ops from the FSS and orrery though.

    But the method is nowhere near as dumb and boring as playing the god honk - system map game was before. I've done a few exploration trips before, mostly swinging inwards towards the galactic centre, with one of them having me stay in what later became Colonia for a few months. So far the FSS-DSS exploration method has not made me want to throw up the same way the god honk - system map method did before. It wasn't the honk - system map routine that made me sick of it though. It was the sitting and staring at stars and planet, watching the idiotic little spinning thing and listening to the scanner sounds. That was the dumbest gameplay ever. It was basically anti-game play. Watching paint dry and water boil was much more exciting, because at least something was happening.

    S

  10. #205
    Regardless, is anyone seriously disputing that the FSS won't stay?

    I mean, beyond that other thread that's going to accomplish... nothing?

    I'm just looking for some other contextual and play style approach options.

  11. #206
    Originally Posted by WR3ND View Post (Source)
    Regardless, is anyone seriously disputing that the FSS won't stay?

    I mean, beyond that other thread that's going to accomplish... nothing?

    I'm just looking for some other contextual and play style approach options.
    I'm fully expecting exploration to remain exactly as it is for the foreseeable future. There may be some QoL changes to distribute the available data more evenly between FSS and System Map, but no fundamental changes.

    Instead I expect FDev to move towards a more 'achievement-driven' style (less sandbox) across the game as a whole. I'm still poking my nose into the forum periodically, to see if I'm being overly pessimistic, but it seems my ED days are over.

  12. #207
    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    The FSS is one of the best things that has happened to the game in the last few years.
    No it's not. It's garbage.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    But it avoids some of the pitfalls the mining upgrade fell into by leaving in the old tools without much use for them. Yes, there are uses: Material mining and targeting non-core elements for missions, but mining is a whole other discussion. I enjoy the new mining too, by the way. I just feel the upgrades were left half-finished.
    ??? You're babbling.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    However, what adding the FSS really has done is add actually exploration game play through the entire process of exploration.
    Something like atmospheric landings or space legs or mining machines or ship-to-ship-docking would have added something to exploration gameplay. FSS hasn't added anything at all.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    In the past we could run the Discover Scanner and get a populated System Map straight away.
    Yes. That's precisely why it was so great. You could get a populated System Map straight away. And now you can't do that.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    After that we were left to our own devices...
    Again, that's what was so great about it. In fact, players being left to their own devices was originally the game's biggest selling point.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    ... having to truck around and stare at planets to fill in the last few details, which seems like an odd thing to do today and will be even odder in 1000 years.
    No, never moving from your spot and trying to peer at things in the remote distance that you're perfectly capable of moving closer to in order to get a better look at them seems odd. And trucking about to stare at planets as closely as possible is the whole point of exploration in this game, as in real life.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    The information gleaned was not particularly useful either; if we wanted to actually find something we had to eyeball it.
    Again, if you want to find something you do have to eyeball it. Or else listen or grope for it if you can't see.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    So we had a near-omniscient tool for the first part of exploration, then next to nothing for the second part. And nothing for step three.
    ??? You're babbling again.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    Now we have two interactive steps, or "mini-games" for exploration, making it a smoother and more engaging process:
    What could be smoother and more engaging than letting the computer populate the System Map automatically and then flying directly to an object of interest? The 'mini-games' merely obstruct that process.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    FSS with its radio-frequency bands makes us actively populate the System Map with what we are looking for.
    Again. It makes us do something, something we shouldn't have had to do. It interposes a pointless dull radio-tuning game which a simple computer algorithm could have accomplished for itself, without of itself adding anything meaningful to exploration gameplay.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    And the third step is self-evident now: Go have a look at what was found.
    That step was always self-evident before FSS.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    So now we have a smooth game experience from entering the system to exploring the planetary surfaces.
    It's not a smooth game experience. It totally interrupts the flight of the ship, forces you to stop the FSD for no reason, and enter a superfluous HUD mode in which you are blind to what is going on immediately outside the ship, and which should have been incorporated into the standard cockpit view.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    It still gets old after a while, but not nearly as quickly as the honk-then-what experience prior to 3.3.
    It's not fun but boring in the first instance and gets old immediately. And then tediously takes up time every time you want to scan a system thereafter. At least the experience prior to Chapter 4 was quick.

    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    Well done Frontier! I look forward to more exploration excitement in 4.
    Far from being exciting, Chapter 4 has killed the game for me entirely, and I uninstalled it in October as soon as I saw the Beta. The only reason I can see for it is that Frontier like to grief explorers. Frontier should be ashamed of themselves.

  13. #208
    "Again. It makes us do something, something we shouldn't have had to do. It interposes a pointless dull radio-tuning game which a simple computer algorithm could have accomplished for itself."

    Ok so what we now want Fdev to

    1) Remove FSS
    2) Auto honk as soon as we come out of high wake - I mean why should we have to press a button to map the system surely we should not have to do anything.
    3) It should auto tag any decent ELW/WW/interesting things - and then autopilot me to them - why should I have to do anything?
    4) Once done surely it could just spark up the FSD and go to the next system - rinse and repeat.

    So in effect what am I even doing touching a joystick - surely a simple algorithm could remove any form of activity from the game for me?

    But then where is the game play?

    Flying ships is 1 aspect of ED

    using the FSS for exploration is another aspect of ED

    trading goods to make money is another aspect of ED

    I could go on but I will just say what you seem to want is the game to play itself to give you lots of money to spend on stuff.

  14. #209
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    No it's not. It's garbage.
    No it's not. There you go, just a different opinion

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    ??? You're babbling.
    Why. Surely his opinion is just as valid as your own.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Something like atmospheric landings or space legs or mining machines or ship-to-ship-docking would have added something to exploration gameplay. FSS hasn't added anything at all.
    How would atmospherics provide new gameplay?
    Mining machines are for mining, not exploration.
    What has ship to ship docking got to do with exploration?

    The FSS has added gameplay to the discovery process and given me reasons to fly to a planet (POI's) and scan/probe it. The old way didn't.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Yes. That's precisely why it was so great. You could get a populated System Map straight away. And now you can't do that.
    No, that was what was so crap about it. No gameplay to discover every body in a system. It was crap.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Again, that's what was so great about it. In fact, players being left to their own devices was originally the game's biggest selling point.
    No it wasn't great, it was awful.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    No, never moving from your spot and trying to peer at things in the remote distance that you're perfectly capable of moving closer to in order to get a better look at them seems odd. And trucking about to stare at planets as closely as possible is the whole point of exploration in this game, as in real life.
    Now we truck to planets for a reason. Before it was to get some useless information, tags and credits.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Again, if you want to find something you do have to eyeball it. Or else listen for or grope it if you can't see.
    It was awful doing the old eyeball mk1. I have done it a couple of times. It was mind numbingly boring. I wouldn't want to impose that on my worst enemy.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    ??? You're babbling again.
    No he is not.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    What could be smoother and more engaging than letting the computer populate the system map automatically and then flying directly to an object of interest? The 'mini-games' merely obstruct that process.
    What is engaging about something doing everything for you. Maybe we could have space flight automated too, maybe trading could be automated and add combat to the list. Yeah cool we can just sit there and watch while the game does eveything for us. Because that is so engaging.

    Sorry but there is nothing engaging about having something do it for us. It is infact the exact opposite.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Again. It makes us do something, something we shouldn't have had to do. It interposes a pointless dull radio-tuning game which a simple computer algorithm could have accomplished for itself.
    It makes you play gameplay which is pretty vital in a computer game.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    That step was always self-evident before FSS.
    No it wasn't as most POI you would have no idea that they were there. There was no way to find any biological and technological POI, it was all pure guess work or you gamed the system. There was no third step.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    It's not a smooth game experience. It totally interrupts the flight of the ship, forces you to stop the FSD for no reason, and enter a superfluous HUD mode in which you are blind to what is going on immediately outside the ship, and which should have been incorporated into the standard cockpit view.
    I disagree. Its no different to looking at the galaxy map and system map. While more information could be added to the cockpit view in analysis mode it is not a game breaker.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    It's not fun but boring in the first instance and gets old immediately. And then tediously takes up time every time you want to scan a system thereafter. At least the experience prior to 3.3 was quick.
    It is fun, and no it doesn't get boring or old. Quick does not mean fun.

    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Far from being exciting, 3.3 has killed the game for me entirely, and I uninstalled it in October as soon as I saw the Beta. The only reason I can see for it is that Frontier like to grief explorers. Frontier should be ashamed of themselves.
    As someone who has explored for the first three years the game was out (gave up in the fourth as I could not take the tedious experience anymore) it is the best thing they have ever done for exploration. Frontier have done nothing to be ashamed about.

  15. #210
    Originally Posted by Sysmon View Post (Source)
    Yes, exploring with the FSS is mind-numblingly dull to run that way
    But you have no choice but to run it that way if you want the same amount of information you used to get from the system map with the honk. So for me exploration completely breaks down unless its played that way. I hate the probes aswell btw i used to enjoy scanning stuff.

    The thing is the FSS should have been the new module, it would have saved all the trouble and all the greif. Taking modules out of player ships on the fly is the most unforgivable sin imo. Something went wrong in the entire development process of the FSS, internal testing or quality control or what ever they call it should have caught this before it went live. They failed and now people are leaving. The total lack of comunication has only increased the bad feeling imo and honestly even if they changed it back at some point in the future i dont know if i play this again now. I know it was only a personal thing to me, but i was planning a long term trip and i heard the update was comming altho i didnt really know when. So i sat in dock and waited months, let the patch drop before i went kind of thing. The crushing sense of disapointment they gave me for free was like my football team losing every game that season.


    Edit: BTW i guess we all seen the thread talking about exploration payouts? Yeah they totally screwed the pooch. The last update was vandalism of the exploration game play. The pathetic comments about "almost a dozen explorer types" but oh sorry not yours. WT actual? I still want to know the almost dozen types cause i think they made it up on the spur of the moment.