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Thread: Relative Mouse mode

  1. #166
    That's all well and good, but I'm still not buying the constant ragging going on about relative mouse being an exploit.

  2. #167
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    That's all well and good, but I'm still not buying the constant ragging going on about relative mouse being an exploit.
    You're the one who ragged on my man Turnip slogging out here with me and the other peasants with our gamepads and Thrustmaster 4s.

    Don't make me ram you with a crappy conda while typing Zarek propaganda into comms. I increased my DG2 murder rate to 90% last night so you know I can bring the thunder!

  3. #168
    Originally Posted by FerosFerioGTR View Post (Source)
    You're the one who ragged on my man Turnip slogging out here with me and the other peasants with our gamepads and Thrustmaster 4s.

    Don't make me ram you with a crappy conda while typing Zarek propaganda into comms. I increased my DG2 murder rate to 90% last night so you know I can bring the thunder!
    You and Turnip winged up and forum ganking me now!

  4. #169
    Originally Posted by PeLucheuh View Post (Source)
    Yes it does (video here if you haven't watched it already)
    After the reaction of, "wow that's some killer flying and I need a few more thousand hours practice", the 2nd thing that strikes me about this video is how much of a handicap headlook is on console.

    I use the gyroscope in the DS4 for headlook, but only when very easy or very necessary.

    Maintaining that level of input precision on the thumbsticks while also needing to constantly move my arms/wrists around in order to track targets and avoid bumping into rocks would be very tricky. It could be done, but what an uphill battle.

  5. #170
    Originally Posted by FerosFerioGTR View Post (Source)
    More seriously, I do believe if we were given the option to change the sensitivity curve (rather than just deadzone) on gamepads, they would be much less of a handicap.
    Same goes for non-mouse axes on PC. The game itself should strive to provide all reasonable options possible, both so that third party utilities aren't necessary and so they can be prohibited, to put people on as level a playing field as possible.

    Originally Posted by FerosFerioGTR View Post (Source)
    Aside from the thumbstick precision issue, my opinion on the dominant reasons PS4 pilots are generally worse is exactly what he says; a smaller population and shorter time window in which to improve.
    Certainly, and one's tools are often used as a scapegoat for lack of experience or a flawed approach, but tools still matter. The trick is knowing how much, if any, handicap is a result of one's tools, and how to work around such limitations...not to flatly deny the possibility of a handicap, or waste time working through an unassailable limitation, rather than finding an approach more conducive to the tools on hand.

  6. #171
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    That's all well and good, but I'm still not buying the constant ragging going on about relative mouse being an exploit.
    Well there will always be people who are very insecure about their ability with their stick.

    It's input-envy, really.
    Mouse users would like to have the have the possibility to have the full range of abilities a stick user can potentially achieve. And some stick users fear the competition.

  7. #172
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    That's all well and good, but I'm still not buying the constant ragging going on about relative mouse being an exploit.
    I don't think anyone's trying to say it's an exploit but it does make FA off a bit easier and smoother than other methods, which is kind of evened out by having to use your keyboard to navigate supercruise. I think if FD introduced a toggle to turn relative mouse off, then it would be nice of them to add a similar in game senstitivity/curve funcion to aid hotas and controller users, to even things out a bit.

  8. #173
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    Same goes for non-mouse axes on PC. The game itself should strive to provide all reasonable options possible, both so that third party utilities aren't necessary and so they can be prohibited, to put people on as level a playing field as possible.

    Certainly, and one's tools are often used as a scapegoat for lack of experience or a flawed approach, but tools still matter. The trick is knowing how much, if any, handicap is a result of one's tools, and how to work around such limitations...not to flatly deny the possibility of a handicap, or waste time working through an unassailable limitation, rather than finding an approach more conducive to the tools on hand.
    Agreed on all counts. Gamepads just have a relatively large handicap due to reasons you've pointed out already.

    But they have advantages too. It would be much harder for me to type Zarek propaganda into comms if the small desk space I've allocated for gaming had to fit a HOTAS and a keyboard. I also doubt I could do my DG2 jumps from a treadmill using any other tool.

  9. #174
    You guys all think you're so special playing on your HOTAS's/gamepads/mouses & keyboards? Try full FA Off PvP on one of these bad boys and then get back to me about how tough you have it:

  10. #175
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Try full FA Off PvP on one of these bad boys and then get back to me about how tough you have it:
    I think we can all agree that THAT is just utter and complete exploitative cheating right there.

  11. #176
    To illustrate better the analogy between relative mouse and joysticks:

    Imagine your joystick would apply thrust in one direction when pulling the lever, but applying thrust in the reverse direction AS SOON AS you pushed the lever in the other direction (meaning immediately, not having to cross center-point). THAT would be "relative joystick". THAT's what gives relative mouse an advantage over HOTAS.

    That would basically counteract all thrusts in FA off rotations.

    Basically what relative mouse allows is having the EXACT SAME FEELING flying FA off than to non-relative FA on (exact opposite movement to cancel thrust).

    Btw remember every other space game featuring some level of decoupling between ship orientation and motion vector has NO Newtonian-like physics on rotations. Evochron, X4, space engineers, star citizen, ... In all of these when you deactivate flight assist your rotations are stopped when you release the stick. Only translations are allowed to drift. The other exception might be Kerbal but that's the whole point of the game (only one of those featuring orbital mechanics as well).

    edit: elite also allows for some level of orbiting but seeing the speed is hard capped the body you'd want to orbit around should be very small otherwise your speed would be way smaller than the escape velocity. On very small bodies it's possible to follow a trajectory which will put you in orbit, allowing you to deactivate all engines and basically flying around the body just by orbital motion. There is a video around on YouTube if anyone is interested.

  12. #177
    Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape View Post (Source)
    If you compare a relative mouse user and a Joystick user:

    The joystick user moves her joystick forward, holds it for a second, then brings it back to the previous position.

    The net result? She is still rotating and must manually correct.


    A mouse user moves her mouse forward, holds it for a second, then brings it back to the previous position.

    The net result? She rotates for a second, then her motion is automatically cancelled out simply by undoing said motion.


    Here's me (a lifetime HOTAS/Dual sticks user) on my 3rd ever FA OFF Mouse docking with no relative mode



    I stand by my previous point: Relative mouse in FA OFF bypasses the intended design for FA Off and should not be encouraged or designed around.

    Ideally, it would be altered to behave as it does with relative mode off. Relative mouse mode should be for people who want to continually move their mouse to turn, not to turn FA Off into FA On with perks
    Now pick a fight with a really good npc.