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Thread: Mass effect on hyperspace range

  1. #1

    Mass effect on hyperspace range

    This has been bothering me for a few days now - the effect mass has on the hyperspace range of ships, as I can't seem to spot a consistent pattern. It might be illustrative if I post a few of the loadouts I've tried with my Cobra Mark III so you can see what I mean. All the configurations below are with full fuel loads, so that any differences in range can be more easily compared with the range of the loadout.

    Setup 1:
    x2 C3 Gimballed multicannons (18t)
    x2 C1 Gimballed Burst Lasers (8t)
    Kill Warrant Scanner (1.3t)
    Point Defence System (N/A)
    Military Grade Composite Bulkheads (10t)
    Total loadout mass: 37.3t
    Range = 7.38LY
    Range with 36t of cargo (total loadout mass = 73.3t) = 5.99LY
    Difference = 1.39LY

    Setup 2:
    x2 C3 Gimballed multicannons (18t)
    x2 C1 Gimballed Burst Lasers (8t)
    Military Grade Composite Bulkheads (10t)
    Total loadout mass: 36t
    Range = 7.44LY
    Range with 36t of cargo (total loadout mass = 72t) = 6.03LY
    Difference = 1.41LY

    Setup 3:
    x2 C3 Gimballed multicannons (18t)
    x2 C1 Gimballed Burst Lasers (8t)
    Reinforced Alloy Bulkheads (5t)
    Total loadout mass: 31t
    Range = 7.45LY
    Range with 36t of cargo (total loadout mass = 67t) = 6.04LY
    Difference = 1.41LY

    Setup 4:
    x2 C3 Gimballed multicannons (18t)
    x2 C1 Gimballed Burst Lasers (8t)
    Lightweight Alloy Bulkheads (N/A)
    Total loadout mass: 26t
    Range = 7.70LY
    Range with 36t of cargo (total loadout mass = 62t) = 6.20LY
    Difference = 1.5LY


    Setup 5:
    x2 C3 Gimballed multicannons (18t)
    x2 C1 Gimballed Burst Lasers (8t)
    Point Defence System (N/A)
    Kill Warrant Scanner (1.3t)
    Lightweight Alloy Bulkheads (N/A)
    Total loadout mass: 27.3t
    Range = 7.53LY
    Range with 36t of cargo (total loadout mass = 63.3t) = 6.33LY
    Difference = 1.2LY

    If you do a little bit of maths and look at the range penalty per tonne of mass, they're not consistent. You get a range penalty of 01.7LY for installing a Kill Warrant Scanner (see setups 4 & 5) if you're not carrying any cargo, but if you do have a full load, you can go 0.13LY further if you do have one! Also, if the range penalty did scale consistently with mass, you'd expect that adding 10 tonnes for military grade bulkheads would have more of a range penalty than the 0.15LY it does have if you compare setups 1 and 5...

    Perhaps we can do some citizenship science and post a few comparative loadouts to see if there is some underlying pattern and logic to loadout/cargo/mass penalties to the hyperspace ranges of the different ships?

  2. #2
    Are you taking fuel into account? it's mass has an effect (more fuel = less range)

    I asked yesterday for a detailed breakdown of the system used to calculate this on a ship by ship basis in the assumption that there IS a coherent pattern

    *slaps himself having now read the ilne about full fuel loads*

  3. #3
    Good work,

    FD would provide testers with debugging/logging tools to better analyze these cases.

  4. #4
    Nice bit of info - thx for taking the time to test and post

    There's clearly something off with the way the game calculates though as we can clearly see when comparing setups 4 and 5.

    Also that's crappy jump range for the Cobra, 5.99ly with setup 1?, I would have thought it would be at least 6.5

    Watercooled i7 5820k @4.4ghz. Asus X99-S. 16GB Corsair Vengence DDR4 2800mhz. EVGA GTX980 SC

  5. #5
    I've not had time to break out excel yet.. but don't forget the mass of the ship. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of a 'penalty' for having extra cargo and equipment, instead think of the effect on the total mass which then reduces the jump range.

    I'm sure someone clever can solve the simultaneous equation, which will give us the hull mass of a cobra, as a community we can probably do the same to work out the hull mass of each ship.

    Any 'noise' is likely to be components that for some reason contribute wrong to the total mass.

  6. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #6
    The formula for hyperspace travel is pretty straight forward but the variables assigned to it are still subject to change (and will be changed).

    Fuel Cost = Coefficient * (Distance * (Mass / Optimised Mass))^Power

    The jump is valid only if Fuel Cost is less than an amount defined by the FSD (2.4'ish for a cobra FSD).

    The Coefficient (cobra: 0.023) and Power (cobra: 2.15) are just values that shape the fuel cost and diminishing returns on long distance jumps. Optimised Mass (cobra: 132) is what the FSD is rated to move through hyperspace.

    I believe the Cobra has a mass of 113 baked into it's hull at the moment before adding on mass from fuel, cargo and modules installed per the OP.

  7. #7
    Thanks mike, that's really useful.

    I'm assuming in the release you will get a nice pretty graph of this function when you visit the showroom to buy a new ship?

    For now... Maybe I can break out the excel later.

  8. #8
    Oh yes, very useful! Someone in FGE had come close to figuring these things out, but hadn't noticed that 'Power' isn't simply '2' (they'd assume things just varied with the square...).

    Now we have an official formula I'm sure we'll have all the current constants for the flyable ships worked out in no time .

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Mike Evans View Post (Source)
    Fuel Cost = Coefficient * (Distance * (Mass / Optimised Mass))^Power
    Shouldn't be too hard... twang, clack, whizz....



    So there we go. Maximum hyperspace range for a Cobra vs the net mass (i.e. equipment, cargo and fuel). It comes with the disclaimer that I might not know what I am doing of course.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Mike Evans View Post (Source)
    The formula for hyperspace travel is pretty straight forward but the variables assigned to it are still subject to change (and will be changed).

    Fuel Cost = Coefficient * (Distance * (Mass / Optimised Mass))^Power

    The jump is valid only if Fuel Cost is less than an amount defined by the FSD (2.4'ish for a cobra FSD).

    The Coefficient (cobra: 0.023) and Power (cobra: 2.15) are just values that shape the fuel cost and diminishing returns on long distance jumps. Optimised Mass (cobra: 132) is what the FSD is rated to move through hyperspace.

    I believe the Cobra has a mass of 113 baked into it's hull at the moment before adding on mass from fuel, cargo and modules installed per the OP.
    Ah-hah. That explains why there isn't a linear relationship between ship mass and jump range. I was wondering about that. Thanks, Mike!

  11. #11
    By the way, if anyone has some examples for some of the other ships I think I can solve for the optimised mass and add them to the chart.

    If I can get a full set I'll hand them over to one of the bods doing an ED wiki.

  12. This is the last staff post in this thread. #12
    Originally Posted by Meric View Post (Source)
    By the way, if anyone has some examples for some of the other ships I think I can solve for the optimised mass and add them to the chart.

    If I can get a full set I'll hand them over to one of the bods doing an ED wiki.
    Different FSDs have different values for those formulas though

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by IainMcC View Post (Source)
    *Good stuff*
    Hi Iain,

    Where have you been taking the actual exact ship range figure? The galaxy map does not show your overall ship jump range capacity only the actual system ranges, no?

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Viajero View Post (Source)
    Hi Iain,

    Where have you been taking the actual exact ship range figure? The galaxy map does not show your overall ship jump range capacity only the actual system ranges, no?
    It's listed in relevant mission Viajero.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Mike Evans View Post (Source)
    The formula for hyperspace travel is pretty straight forward but the variables assigned to it are still subject to change (and will be changed).

    Fuel Cost = Coefficient * (Distance * (Mass / Optimised Mass))^Power

    The jump is valid only if Fuel Cost is less than an amount defined by the FSD (2.4'ish for a cobra FSD).

    The Coefficient (cobra: 0.023) and Power (cobra: 2.15) are just values that shape the fuel cost and diminishing returns on long distance jumps. Optimised Mass (cobra: 132) is what the FSD is rated to move through hyperspace.

    I believe the Cobra has a mass of 113 baked into it's hull at the moment before adding on mass from fuel, cargo and modules installed per the OP.
    Hi Mike,

    This is interesting and all very clever but I have a question regarding mass, fuel and jump ranges.

    Last night I took my Sidewinder to LP 98-132, picked up 4t of cargo and a mission to Dahan. So outside Freeport, selecting Dahan as my jump destination from the galaxy map, I can see that it's 8.5ish LY away (I forgot to write that one down). The computer tells me I can't make that jump because I have too much cargo. Okay, fine - multiple jumps it is.

    So I line up with Asellus Primus which is 5.78LY away and make the jump. When I get there, I check to see how far away Dahan is - 4.66LY - and guess what, I can, and do, make the jump.

    So, in my basic Sidewinder (no weapons because I got rid of them), 4t of cargo and a full tank of gas, I can travel a total of 10.44LY from LS 98-132 to Dahan via Asellus Primus but I can't make a single, direct jump of 8.5 LY.

    Now I understand that when I get to Asellus Primus I've got less fuel therefore a different mass - but that would imply that the fuel gets used in one go rather than continuously or, alternatively, the computer can only work out available jump distance when not in hyperspace and is unable to do calculations on the fly (or work out possible permuatations prior to the jump)

    I appreciate that it may be more to do with the power part of your equation but what's the thinking behind this in terms of "lore" explanation? Why does a longer hyperspace jump require more power? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that you need power to get into hyperspace (possibly dependant on mass so you need more power to carry more cargo or for a bigger ship - I can see that affecting choice of components e.g. power plants and managing power being an interesting challenge if you need to shut down systems to make a hyperspace jump - even more so if you need to make an emergency jump during combat and have to shut down a weapon for example) but once you were in hyperspace, it would be down to the amount of fuel. After all, the draw on a car battery during ignition is greater at that point than during driving and it doesn't matter whether you're going 10 miles or 100 miles (or start out doing 10 and change your mind and go 100).

    From a gameplay point of view it feels a bit limiting - I know my ship can go 11LY with full cargo hold and full fuel but I can't do it all one jump, so I'm rail-roaded on a particular route rather than being free to jump where I want. (This may sound like I'm asking for it to be simpler and, yes, maybe I am - but I'm also asking for more freedom).

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