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Thread: The Star Citizen Thread v 4

  1. #1426
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    ED does progress, but Frontier and Braben himself are against guilds, large player owned capital ships, industrial gameplay found in X3 and Eve Online. That limits the potential of ED.
    If you'd like someone telling you that everything will be included in their game then you're on the right thread.

    Even birds have been confirmed for Star Citizen by Croberts himself

  2. #1427
    Originally Posted by Voivod View Post (Source)
    If you'd like someone telling you that everything will be included in their game then you're on the right thread.

    Even birds have been confirmed for Star Citizen by Croberts himself
    Birds could be in Star Citizen before we get landing on atmospheric planets in Elite. We have a whole year without atmospheric planets...

  3. #1428
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    Birds could be in Star Citizen before we get landing on atmospheric planets in Elite. We have a whole year without atmospheric planets...
    Now the speed of Elite's development bothers you as well?

    It's a good thing we have all those lovely features you want in Star Citizen to play so you don't have to wait for Elite

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    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    But it's not good for Elite in general, because Star Citizen will have such larger-scale gameplay (not as big as Eve Online though). In Elite players are limited to a max 4 players per Wing.
    Elite isn't trying to offer the same experience as Star Citizen or EvE though.

  4. #1429
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    But it's not good for Elite in general, because Star Citizen will have such larger-scale gameplay
    You mean with 12-16 players per star system? (Currently they desperately hope raising that number to 40.)
    In Elite players are limited to a max 4 players per Wing.
    Fine by me. As I said: If I wanted Eve Online, I would have bought it twelve years ago.

  5. #1430
    Originally Posted by Voivod View Post (Source)
    It's a good thing we have all those lovely features you want in Star Citizen to play so you don't have to wait for Elite
    I own Elite already, after I saw that procedural planet video of Star Citizen I'm worried about how Elite will compete when the 200 pound gorilla (Star Citizen) gets released.

    Star Citizen's advantages of Elite Dangerous:
    - a much bigger budget
    - triple A actors for a story driven campaign
    - detailed character models and hand-crafted environments.
    - procedural planets (aren't as realistic as Elite Dangerous though).
    - higher graphical fidelity overall (more detail and polygons used in models and structures) with the CryEngine.
    - already more popular on Twitch, facebook etc than ED.

    Elite Dangerous advantage:
    - Early release
    - simulates the whole galaxy to scale like no other game.
    - more scientifically accurate in general
    - a shared overarching galaxy state, economy and narrative across all platforms.
    - available on multiple platforms: PC, Mac and Xbox One
    - the legacy of the Elite series outmatches any other space-sim in history.

    Elite Dangerous weakness:
    - weak multiplayer, doesn't feel massively online
    - weak social features
    - only 4 players per wing or ship
    - shallow sandbox
    - Frontier's dislike for large scale, industrial gameplay by players. They want players to stay small and insignificant, never able to become leaders of vast player-run guilds/corporations.
    - No player owned capital ships, solar systems or stations.

  6. #1431
    Originally Posted by Mucka View Post (Source)
    Already blows ED out of the water technically but the big difference is it isn't live and playable yet.
    ED need to up their game though because that is truly seamless and the planet had an atmosphere, albeit no weather, and the fidelity was much higher already and it is only in the early stages.
    No.

    An atmospheric scattering effect isn't such a big deal nor the big challenge in doing PG planets. Pretty much every PG planet demo on youtube has it including all the small one man teams playing around with it from their "bedrooms". If anything atmospheric scattering can be used to hide and fade away terrain while being "shiny" and "earthlike" which seems to fool a lot of people into thinking "better". Same thing with the Inovae Engine.

    Case in point.

    With scattering in Outterra:


    With scattering turned off:


    Showing the planet "naked" and without that "shiny effect" is a much bigger challenge while also making it look good. Something that ED have accomplished. As soon as they start to add these kind of things on top of what they have peoples perception of the quality will go through the roof IMO. Hopefully this video from SC might actually speed up the process of getting there sooner in ED.

    The "fidelity" in the Star Citizen demo was actually nowhere near what can currently be seen in ED in regards to the PG terrain. Especially in terms of believable large scale features. What was shown was some rather generic noise algorithms applied pretty evenly across the entire surface of the planet as a heightmap. If they would remove the atmosphere layer and show that planet in full sunlight it would basically look like this currently...



    Now compare that to this in ED:


    Which is why we are only shown the nightside of the planet from afar at the moment.

    The fidelity in the custom made terrain around the base was higher of course, due to it being handmade, but all of the PG terrain around it was very simple compared to even many one man team efforts that have shown of videos on youtube. The terrain tech in SC will without question improve though and I look forward to seeing where it goes, but it's not like FD is gonna sit around on their hands doing nothing either.

    EDs engine is just as seamless when just moving around in the engine. The difference is that in-game in ED we also have the network layer on top. How seamless SC will be while connecting to other players inside the real game instead of a tech demo like this is yet to be seen. However...there is a possibility that it might actually feel more seamless depending on how the split up them map of the star system. If the connection to the other players happens when using quantum drive to approach "orbit" as shown in the video and you already at that stage gets connected to the people down on the ground then it will be more seamless since no switch will be needed while going down. The downside is that orbit (including the station shown) and the planet itself will share an instance thus spreading out people over a much bigger area. Another downside according to my book is the uncontrollable quantum drive when moving big distances in space. I personally prefer the manual control EDs super cruise gives us.

  7. #1432
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    But it's not good for Elite in general, because Star Citizen will have such larger-scale gameplay (not as big as Eve Online though). In Elite players are limited to a max 4 players per Wing.
    Just a small correction. SC doesn't have ANY gameplay. They have a busted alpha for testing and the future promise of game play and a solid record for not delivering and going back on promises.

  8. #1433
    So SC is going to get PG planets and seamless free-form landings.
    Good, this is a good thing.

    But, can we get the current stuff a bit more polished first? Can we have Star Marine please, and SQ42? CIG can add the PG and landings later on, surely?

    Say what you like about Frontier, they seem to have a well organised plan for building out and releasing Elite: Dangerous - can CIG start to develop as good a strategy, without getting over-excited about features that may make it into the game in a few years?

    Personally, I think SC Alpha 2.0 has been a reasonable step forward, but we still have very little to actually play - here's hoping for lots more to come over the next 12 months.

  9. #1434
    Originally Posted by Backer42 View Post (Source)
    Don't make the mistake comparing what we have already over here with what will be someday over there. That doesn't work, ED progresses too.

    You can get 10+ players in one ship in SC already.

  10. #1435
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    I own Elite already, after I saw that procedural planet video of Star Citizen I'm worried about how Elite will compete when the 200 pound gorilla (Star Citizen) gets released.
    Let's see, how Half-Life 1 will compete, when Duke Nukem Forever gets released. Oh wait, nobody plays HL1 anymore in 2011.

    Star Citizen's advantages of Elite Dangerous:
    • pay to win
    • A-list actors playing a fanfic-tier script in ten hours of unskippable cutscenes
    • having a non-actress beside them as part of the main cast
    • slow-motion high-fidelity character animations inside a game about space ships
    • super toxic cult-like community, the thing you want most in an online game


    Elite Dangerous' weaknesses:
    • Is not Eve Online, every space game must be Eve Online!

  11. #1436
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    I disagree with that, because in Star Citizen you will encounter much more players in the same instance and walking around. That rarely happens in ED.

    There's rumors that the Multi-Crew Update is ONLY 4 Players Total per ship or Wing. So 1 Wing cannot have more than 4 players regardless if the ships have capacity for more.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yLTm8DZ8s4

    Is this a full-size seamless planet? If so then ED has to drastically up its game with social, MMO and sandbox features to compete with SC.
    No, all CIG did was take a very poor quality PG world, and plop their hand crafted station into the middle of it. If you go to 1.03 of that video you can actually see the seam between the handcrafted bit and the rest of the PG world. Its faking the PG tech to make it seem they have more then they really do. Its just the Nyx mining base that was put into a very badly done PG world. Just check out how fuzzy and poor detail the rest of the world is compared to that one mining base. That base stands out like a sour thumb, in the middle of a bunch of noise generated PG tech.

  12. #1437
    Originally Posted by Tubz View Post (Source)
    You can get 10+ players in one ship in SC already.
    That's pretty nifty. But what do they all do while in the ship?

  13. #1438
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Just a small correction. SC doesn't have ANY gameplay. They have a busted alpha for testing and the future promise of game play and a solid record for not delivering and going back on promises.
    This pretty much sums of what I feel too, after following SC since Kickstarter. It's alot of beautiful videos, presentations and promises of "just around the corner" and that corner is constantly moved. But there is nothing that I would call playable! And at the end of the day that's what counts, not what's coming out in 2020, but what I can play now. And by that standard ED is so very solid! I'm just happy I found ED when they had their Premium Beta offering and got Horizon for free because I'm having a blast. Could it be better? Absolutely, and I don't think anyone can disagree with that. But it's playable, it's fun and it's solid with very few bugs! (so far the only one I've run into is the nav route being reset every jump, but compared to SC where I struggle to even lift off and travel to a relay station it's so damn solid gameplay!)

  14. #1439
    Originally Posted by Tubz View Post (Source)
    You can get 10+ players in one ship in SC already.
    But that is the only ship you can have then in the entire star system, because the server is full.

  15. #1440
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    I own Elite already, after I saw that procedural planet video of Star Citizen I'm worried about how Elite will compete when the 200 pound gorilla (Star Citizen) gets released.
    So that video made you worried? How!?


    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    Star Citizen's advantages of Elite Dangerous:
    - a much bigger budget
    - triple A actors for a story driven campaign
    - detailed character models and hand-crafted environments.
    - procedural planets (aren't as realistic as Elite Dangerous though).
    - higher graphical fidelity overall (more detail and polygons used in models and structures) with the CryEngine.
    - already more popular on Twitch, facebook etc than ED.

    Elite Dangerous advantage:
    - Early release
    - simulates the whole galaxy to scale like no other game.
    - more scientifically accurate in general
    - the legacy of the Elite series outmatches any other space-sim in history.

    Elite Dangerous weakness:
    - weak multiplayer, doesn't feel massively online
    - weak social features
    - only 4 players per wing or ship
    - shallow sandbox
    - Frontier's dislike for large scale, industrial gameplay by players. They want players to stay small and insignificant, never able to become leaders of vast player-run guilds/corporations.
    - No player owned capital ships, solar systems or stations.


    You forgot to mention SC's weaknesses.
    You also forgot to mention that SC will have birds while Elite probably won't.

    In all seriousness though, both games have advantages and disadvantages over another.
    They're not in direct competition since they offer very different experiences.
    Some features are shared by both but it seems they're going in different directions on those as well.

    I bet CR saw Elite's landings and thought "How boring!" and DB saw yesterday's video and all his scientific alarm bells went off at the same time.

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    Originally Posted by Stormprooter View Post (Source)
    That's pretty nifty. But what do they all do while in the ship?
    From watching some streams, they're trying to convince themselves they're having fun

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