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Thread: Mercs of Mikunn results after 3 weeks of effort - Also a request for documentation, in game and out

  1. #1

    Mercs of Mikunn results after 3 weeks of effort - Also a request for documentation, in game and out

    CLICK HERE FOR CONTINUATION OF THIS THREAD. NEW ISSUES AT OUR THREE MONTHS POINT DISCUSSED HERE

    Want a nice up to date summary of useful info in this thread <<<click here!

    This isn’t intended to be another trash talk thread, a jab at Frontier, nor a rant, but rather a humble suggestion from a player who loves the game and those of us doing the Mikunn experiment, which has turned into an exercise in frustration. I have tried to summarize what many people have expressed in the original thread here.

    Quick summary: The Mikunn experiment was made to test the background simulator, especially expansion into other systems through takeover and expansion.

    Some links:


    What did we discover from the experiment? Very little once it started


    • As little as two players can have an effect on a small system, especially if its far from the starter worlds.
    • There is some sort of bug or ‘problem’ that causes an influence gain freeze up immediately after expansion into another system.
    • 1.04 fixed whatever bug was preventing us from getting a second status in Mikunn, but the influence values are still stuck


    There is some simple math that can explain why we should see some influence change after a couple of missions if we are the only presence (and I chose Mikunn for that reason). The influence counter is actually very precise, as it goes to the first decimal place. This might not sound precise but lets say it took ten missions to move it up .1 percent.... That would be 10,000 missions to fully take a system. We have easily done over 1000 missions, I must have done over 200 alone. 5000 In total is probably more accurate. But lets be pessimistic and round down to 1000. Let’s say that 1000 missions got us .1%. That means we would have to do close to 1 million missions excluding the 9.1% we already have.

    Alternatively, if we got a .1% increase tomorrow, for three weeks of work, 1 year of work would see an increase of 1.7 percent. That means 58 years of the same level of work to completely take over a system. I don't know about you.... but I feel that is (a tad =p) unrealistic. This is the argument I have been giving for a while. For this reason the argument that more effort must be put in to see results doesn't hold water.

    We are experiencing one or a combination of several things:



    • A bug
    • Intended and poor game design ( seriously 70 people 50 years?)
    • Misunderstanding of inscrutable game mechanics (70 people working together cant figure it out)
    • The devs are faking it ‘til they make it and we are so far out they haven't noticed us enough to change the system.



    I have no clue what the problem is, and we won't know what the problem is until Frontier is straightforward with us. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect them to come in here or any of our other threads and explain it (although its so nice when they do). What I would like is some sort of documentation, especially in what has already been added to the game. Because of our Mikunn experiment I’m starting to have serious doubts whether certain items are in the game such as:


    • Station growth and contruction of new stations (I have heard rumors of proof but it’s still inconclusive)
    • Expansion into already occupied systems (partially implemented or bugged?)
    • Expansion into un-colonized systems


    And by documentation, I not only mean whether or not these parts of the game have been implemented, but also documentation on how player actions have an effect. For example, if expansion into another system has been added, we have either encountered a bug OR the mechanics are so obscure and inscrutable, that 80 players working together over a three week period can’t figure it out. If either of these two scenarios are the case, I would just like to know so I don’t waste not only my time but the time of 80+ players encouraging them to fling themselves towards a task that cannot be achieved. Since our expansion into HR 7327 we have not gained or lost even .1% for any faction involved and that is a problem.

    Fortunately, my wish has become partially true (or at least the promise of it becoming true), with this post. And a big thanks for that.

    If certain parts of the game have not been implemented I would hope that the developers would be honest with us about it. It would be better for them to be honest with us about it – imagine player disappointment after trying to do achieve something in the game for several weeks only to discover it is not there. Players would appreciate it much more if they said, “Its not here yet” or “It’s a bug” and we are working on it.

    Since these things were already promised in the kick starter it doesn’t hurt them to promise these things again, and it would certainly be much better for them to admit what is missing.


    • Documentation on what has already been promised but not added
    • Documentation on how the more obscure parts of the game work (like the background simulator) without giving ‘spoilers’
    • The development discussion archives are a little dated. Documentation on what has changed


    I would like to leave this on a positive note by saying this is still one of the most amazing games I have seen, and has the potential to become my absolute all-time favorite. Please let this be so. So many people have become involved in the amazing experience FD has given to us here, and we understand that the scope is massive, help us understand the parts that we don't.



    Post Edits:
    An example of in game documentation how player actions could have an effect could be as simple as a local version of galnet giving in-game feedback. This was originally planned, but is it still? An alternative would be that when you get allied status, you see what the factions next plans are, ie - "we are considering to build a new station", which would be nice in game feedback letting you know the faction is nearing station building time. I feel like this would be easier to implement than galnet or could at least serve as a placeholder.

    A response by the devs on the 'bug'

    More

    1 Civil war happens between minor factions of the same system - the only way to take a system now.
    2 Civil war happens per station - the only way for stations to change hands
    3 On possibly unclear feedback
    4 Influence tracked per system not station
    5Win civil war -> Capture station -> Possibly capture system depending on station
    6 Minor factions can't expand in virgin systems for now
    7 Peaceful takeover not possible, included in future development plans
    8 No eta for automatic expansion background sim. Likely the finished product won't be fully automatic to give devs some control
    9 Civil war is influence driven
    10 Market is owned by the minor faction that owns the station
    11 System changes are handled automatically. Several bugs have held things up.
    12 It hasn't been determined yet how developers will decide the who and where of expansion into virgin system. New stations are not added automatically in the colonized systems yet either. Outposts upgrading into stations automatically also has not been implemented.
    13 Booms can change market but not station or market type. Station and market type don't change.(Except probably terraform when finished)
    14 More on Mikunn bug, that is affecting other systems as well
    15 Physical station and market do not change
    16 Population size doesn't effect the difficulty in influence gain
    17 A bunch of repeats and trade does affect influence of owning station faction
    18 Station economy type doesn't change through simulation.
    19 Influence is per system
    20 Market description bug
    21 Market types determined by makeup of system which doesn't change, except for terraforming.
    22 Capturing a non -controlling station is not pointless as the capture of the market can help you gain more influence


    Soda's Compilation

    Soda's Complete Compilation

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Walt Kerman View Post (Source)
    This isn’t intended to be another trash talk thread, a jab at Frontier, nor a rant....
    There is not a single organism in this solar system that could claim that what you 've been doing is a jab or a rant or anything alike. keep up the good work. I am really looking forward to experience a complete and fully working background simulator as promised

  4. #4
    Yes, please, more info on the background sim, the current situation is not satisfying.

  5. #5
    Keep up the good work. And I would like to join with the mercs.

  6. #6
    Yeah c'mon FD, throw us a bone here!

  7. #7
    This needs to be a sticky. So bumpity bump for now.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by SE-Apocalypse View Post (Source)
    Keep up the good work. And I would like to join with the mercs.
    If you would like to join the mercs. Msg me when you get to Mikunn in either a private message or the group which can easily be found in Dangerous groups or linked at the top of this thread.

    Do not post that in here for the sake of this threads topic which I feel is very important. Thanks for the comment. See you in Mikunn commander.

    Also check out The Black Hole in the Wall

  9. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #9
    I've said before in a similar thread that we won't provide details on how the mechanisms work. However if you amass information to demonstrate how you believe it isn't working correctly then we can take a look. I believe some people have already raised a tickets so we'll investigate these.

    Michael

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Michael Brookes View Post (Source)
    I've said before in a similar thread that we won't provide details on how the mechanisms work. However if you amass information to demonstrate how you believe it isn't working correctly then we can take a look. I believe some people have already raised a tickets so we'll investigate these.

    Michael
    That ticket would be me. Well I appreciate the response regardless..... and I hope you change your minds at least partially.

    Also thanks for being so responsive elsewhere on the forum as well. Its made me at the very least feel a whole lot better.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Michael Brookes View Post (Source)
    I've said before in a similar thread that we won't provide details on how the mechanisms work. However if you amass information to demonstrate how you believe it isn't working correctly then we can take a look. I believe some people have already raised a tickets so we'll investigate these.

    Michael
    His first post demonstrates it's not working correctly, Michael. How many more people doing thousands of broken things do you need, exactly?

    Also, if you don't tell your customers how your game works, and it doesn't work how they expect it to work, don't expect them to stay around for years banging their head against brick walls. Those days are long gone.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by vjek View Post (Source)
    His first post demonstrates it's not working correctly, Michael. How many more people doing thousands of broken things do you need, exactly?

    Also, if you don't tell your customers how your game works, and it doesn't work how they expect it to work, don't expect them to stay around for years banging their head against brick walls. Those days are long gone.
    Keep it polite. They can close the thread, and will be justified in doing so if things get nasty. And I will be among the first asking them to close it if it takes that route.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Walt Kerman View Post (Source)
    Keep it polite, I don't want this closed.
    Then I'm glad I left out the part where I felt Michael's tone was adversarial.

  14. #14
    Personally I think if the influence locks at a certain point its gated by one of two things - a singular event that takes place, like enough warzone wins or a specific mission, tipping point all that etc or..... Its not finished.

    My moneys always been on not finished because they have some strange priorities if the background simulation works really well but they implemented mining how it currently is

  15. #15
    Walt and everyone involved in this experiment and feedback for FD deserves a big round of applause.

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