2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Von Elsner]

This is why Ozram's solution is so elegant. You want crew? Hire NPC crew. If a human wants to join your crew, then they do so by effectively taking over your NPC. In this way, there is no need for "handwavium" to explain how you got on-board the ship, there are less issues relating to connectivity (if the player drops, control returns to the NPC) & the anti-social members of the community get their NPC crew......everyone is happy .

This would do.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I'm so over Windscreen Smudge & his constant carping.....time for the ignore list I reckon.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

You linked to a report for the financial year ending in 2016 that is over six months old! You don know that lots of sales have happened since yeah?

You do know that things may have changed, either for better or worse since then yeah?

Now if it was for worse why not provide the latest update to prove your point?

What other things were they selling in May 2016? PLANET COASTER WASN'T RELEASED!

They were selling Elite, making money FROM ELITE!

But you don't like that fact do you? Because it doesn't fit your narrative....

Oh and they sold several hundred thousand units since that report and have now sold more than 2million units...and that was at the end of last year!

Now WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY THAT AGAIN? With up to date information perhaps?

Or perhaps you'd just like to jog on now you've been busted?

Sure sales have happened, and that doesn't matter because FDev focuses on initial attachment.

The financial report is dated September, sorry. Everything in it is up to August. Planet Coaster was already available for pre-order in June and being played in Beta shortly thereafter. Since FDev have chosen to go with a business model that focuses on pre-orders they list that under released products. They're already getting paid for that product, it goes in their financial report. That's how money works.

 

[stormyuk]

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

I hope not! I have not even had chance to get it on my PS4 yet!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm glad I'm not relying on you to apply reasoning to reality.

Look at the current state of the game. You don't need a financial report to read the writing on the wall.

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Number of staff is 360ish compared to 240ish when ED was released.

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

I would say that it is likely that it is planets coasters team that is being poached for planet safari. The games will be using similar tech to each other with similar management etc.

Why take people away from ED development which is a completely different type of game, when they have the staff at planet coaster with the experience. What would be the logic of that. All they need to do at planet coaster is a small team to add some more rides every now and again. Fix some of the bugs etc.

Also why you think it is being fazed out is beyond me. Every update in season 2 so far, has been far superior to every update in season 1, maybe the reason why the dev time is slower.

 

[raymondo the great]

It should be the same for Players as it is for NPC's IMHO.

Indeed

I don't care if its cut based or magic extra money, it should be the same for NPCs, for Wings for people in my gunners chair.

Consistency is the name of the game here!

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I would say that it is likely that it is planets coasters team that is being poached for planet safari. The games will be using similar tech to each other with similar management etc.

Why take people away from ED development which is a completely different type of game, when they have the staff at planet coaster with the experience. What would be the logic of that. All they need to do at planet coaster is a small team to add some more rides every now and again. Fix some of the bugs etc.

Also why you think it is being fazed out is beyond me. Every update in season 2 so far, has been far superior to every update in season 1, maybe the reason why the dev time is slower.

As soon as the honeymoon phase with Planet coaster is over, yeah. That's how it works.

ED's team got cannibalized for the sake of PC long ago. People just weren't paying attention. It's also been burgled for various other products, not least of which is the new PS4 version. I'm just pointing out that they're not coming back.

Edit: And I'd contend that the current releases are better. Powerplay was a pretty big thing, even if people don't like it. Launching 7 ships at once was big too, putting new ships in the Cobra engine isn't easy.

Most of the 1.x updates were bug fixing, QoL and BGS though. That's to be expected when you release a buggy product. There were considerably more man-hours going into development during season 1 than season 2.

 

[Yaffle]

Sure sales have happened, and that doesn't matter because FDev focuses on initial attachment.

The financial report is dated September, sorry. Everything in it is up to August. Planet Coaster was already available for pre-order in June and being played in Beta shortly thereafter. Since FDev have chosen to go with a business model that focuses on pre-orders they list that under released products. They're already getting paid for that product, it goes in their financial report. That's how money works.

https://www.iasplus.com/en-gb/standards/ias/ias18 is all you need to know on revenue recognition.

Cash received would obviously go into cash, but as we all know cash is not profit.

 

[raymondo the great]

Sure sales have happened, and that doesn't matter because FDev focuses on initial attachment.

The financial report is dated September, sorry. Everything in it is up to August. Planet Coaster was already available for pre-order in June and being played in Beta shortly thereafter. Since FDev have chosen to go with a business model that focuses on pre-orders they list that under released products. They're already getting paid for that product, it goes in their financial report. That's how money works.

Nope, that doesn't prove anything about sales being down, up or static, it doesn't prove ED is dying, it doesn't prove staff has been poached, it doesn't prove staff have increased, it doesn't prove the sky is blue or the night is dark no more than it proves fairies exist!

The latest investor report was very positive and from memory they specifically mentioned higher than expected sales of ED, given of course that in the period they were reporting for there was only 1 major content release and they originally planned for several higher than expected sales is likely fairly significant.

But hey who needs up to date facts when you have a pre determined angle and want it to fail?

If you aren't interested in finding out what the latest info is but judging the last six months based on info that doesn't cover it....then there is literally no further point in discussion!

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As soon as the honeymoon phase with Planet coaster is over, yeah. That's how it works.

ED's team got cannibalized for the sake of PC long ago. People just weren't paying attention. It's also been burgled for various other products, not least of which is the new PS4 version. I'm just pointing out that they're not coming back.

Edit: And I'd contend that the current releases are better. Powerplay was a pretty big thing, even if people don't like it. Launching 7 ships at once was big too, putting new ships in the Cobra engine isn't easy.

Most of the 1.x updates were bug fixing, QoL and BGS though. That's to be expected when you release a buggy product. There were considerably more man-hours going into development during season 1 than season 2.

You can prove this can you?

Perhaps provide a list of staff that worked on ED and moved to planet coaster?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

This is why Ozram's solution is so elegant. You want crew? Hire NPC crew. If a human wants to join your crew, then they do so by effectively taking over your NPC. In this way, there is no need for "handwavium" to explain how you got on-board the ship, there are less issues relating to connectivity (if the player drops, control returns to the NPC) & the anti-social members of the community get their NPC crew......everyone is happy .

Agreed. For me that would be a far better idea.

 

[SirAdelaide]

I hate mega threads. Why can't we get sub forums for popular topics?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Nope, that doesn't prove anything about sales being down, up or static, it doesn't prove ED is dying, it doesn't prove staff has been poached, it doesn't prove staff have increased, it doesn't prove the sky is blue or the night is dark no more than it proves fairies exist!

The latest investor report was very positive and from memory they specifically mentioned higher than expected sales of ED, given of course that in the period they were reporting for there was only 1 major content release and they originally planned for several higher than expected sales is likely fairly significant.

But hey who needs up to date facts when you have a pre determined angle and want it to fail?

If you aren't interested in finding out what the latest info is but judging the last six months based on info that doesn't cover it....then there is literally no further point in discussion!

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You can prove this can you?

Perhaps provide a list of staff that worked on ED and moved to planet coaster?

Don't need to. If FDev didn't move experienced staff onto new projects, they'd just die.

That's how this works. Indeed, it's how most businesses work. Either you keep making new products, or you go out of business. FDev don't act like most development companies, they don't hire people on temporarily, fire them when the project is done and go hire new people. Most of their employees are working under permanent contract.

FDev has to keep them busy AND make a profit. Being a one trick pony and trying to ride ED into the sunset isn't going to do that.

However, if I wanted to, I'd just go pull the names of the dev staff off of the PC forums who post there regularly that no longer post on the ED forums, because they're no longer involved with the project.

Indeed, many of those staff have quietly disappeared because as that game moved out of beta they were moved on to the next project.

This is how game development works.

 

[sgurr]

That wasn't his point.

What he linked was a well described and thorough list of fun and useful features.

Compare that kind of depth in game design to what we're getting with Multicrew. The huge gap in design quality is what he's highlighting.

They have to start somewhere, priority 1 is getting it working at all. I have no problem with that.

I'd hope, and I appreciate they haven't to any great extent so far, that they will revisit the headline feature and add other roles at a later date.

 

[raymondo the great]

I'm glad I'm not relying on you to apply reasoning to reality.

Look at the current state of the game. You don't need a financial report to read the writing on the wall.

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Number of staff is 360ish compared to 240ish when ED was released.

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

This is verifiably wrong.

Total number of people to work on ED is 122 according to the credits available online!

This probably doesn't include some who worked on horizons as it may not have been updated.

Total number of FDEV employes at ED release <> people worked on ED at release.

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Don't need to. If FDev didn't move experienced staff onto new projects, they'd just die.

That's how this works. Indeed, it's how most businesses work. Either you keep making new products, or you go out of business. FDev don't act like most development companies, they don't hire people on temporarily, fire them when the project is done and go hire new people. Most of their employees are working under permanent contract.

FDev has to keep them busy AND make a profit. Being a one trick pony and trying to ride ED into the sunset isn't going to do that.

However, if I wanted to, I'd just go pull the names of the dev staff off of the PC forums who post there regularly that no longer post on the ED forums, because they're no longer involved with the project.

Indeed, many of those staff have quietly disappeared because as that game moved out of beta they were moved on to the next project.

This is how game development works.

Not if they planned to get people to keep paying for content for years on a project!

So to summarise:

You have an assentation, you have no proof to back it up, you believe the fact that FDev still exists is all the proof you need and you aren't going to look for any proof.

That fair?

Oh and you do know that staff may well have moved on to other companies yeah? Perhaps for a better job? Perhaps because they moved house, or the commute was too much, or they had a baby or whatever...people move jobs all the time! Just because you bought a game doesn't mean the devs have to inform you when someone who did some coding on it goes to work for another company! "Quietly moved on"? Some of the most self entitled I've seen on these forums! And that's quite something!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As soon as the honeymoon phase with Planet coaster is over, yeah. That's how it works.

ED's team got cannibalized for the sake of PC long ago. People just weren't paying attention. It's also been burgled for various other products, not least of which is the new PS4 version. I'm just pointing out that they're not coming back.

Edit: And I'd contend that the current releases are better. Powerplay was a pretty big thing, even if people don't like it. Launching 7 ships at once was big too, putting new ships in the Cobra engine isn't easy.

Most of the 1.x updates were bug fixing, QoL and BGS though. That's to be expected when you release a buggy product. There were considerably more man-hours going into development during season 1 than season 2.

Sweet jesus. You do talk rubbish. So as the part you said they still have 51% to still be developed. Does that mean they are developing the games now. We know that planet safari is coming. We know that ED has about 100 staff, we also know that Planet Coaster has about 100 staff, so it makes sense for Planet Safari to have 100 staff, and when the next IP come out after planet safari (if that is what it is), they will likely have another 100 staff for that title. There you have your 4 IP's. Get a grip man.

Please use some logic. As DBOBE said just a few months ago, they will be developing ED for as long as possible 10/15/20 years if possible.

They where his words. They have also stated a number of times that they have teams working on season/expansion 3 and 4.

What you say is pure speculation. You are taking some figures and numbers and trying desperately to bend them into something they are not, so you can justify what you are saying.

 

[Whitehair]

....
Number of staff is 360ish compared to 240ish when ED was released.

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

This is a good one...

Company is expanding staff by 50% = ED is being phased out !

That is some sort of "apply reasoning to reality" - but what sort of reasoning is really difficult to follow!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Don't need to. If FDev didn't move experienced staff onto new projects, they'd just die.

That's how this works. Indeed, it's how most businesses work. Either you keep making new products, or you go out of business. FDev don't act like most development companies, they don't hire people on temporarily, fire them when the project is done and go hire new people. Most of their employees are working under permanent contract.

FDev has to keep them busy AND make a profit. Being a one trick pony and trying to ride ED into the sunset isn't going to do that.

However, if I wanted to, I'd just go pull the names of the dev staff off of the PC forums who post there regularly that no longer post on the ED forums, because they're no longer involved with the project.

Indeed, many of those staff have quietly disappeared because as that game moved out of beta they were moved on to the next project.

This is how game development works.

Yes they will use the experienced staff from planet coaster on planet safari as they will most like be using the same or very similar tech. Not from ED as that is a completely different type of game. The only thing similar is that they use the same game engine.

Apply some logic to your inane ramblings please.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

This is verifiably wrong.

Total number of people to work on ED is 122 according to the credits available online!

This probably doesn't include some who worked on horizons as it may not have been updated.

Total number of FDEV employes at ED release <> people worked on ED at release.

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Not if they planned to get people to keep paying for content for years on a project!

So to summarise:

You have an assentation, you have no proof to back it up, you believe the fact that FDev still exists is all the proof you need and you aren't going to look for any proof.

That fair?

Total number of people who have worked on in the entirety of ED's history is 122, correct. They still get credit for their work, even if they are no longer assigned to the project.

They planned to get people to keep paying, but it didn't work out as they planned. Horizons sales didn't meet expectations. Time to cut their losses.

Fact: Every expansion after the first expansion sells substantially less copies. Any game. Ever. Unless you're WoW. It's as good as a law of physics. If Horizons didn't sell as many copies as they wanted it to, they're not going to throw the same amount of money into the next series of updates when they know for a fact that those updates are going to be less profitable.

Proof is there if I felt it would do any good to show it to you. It won't. Your entire basis for arguing against me has been "But Muh Feelin's!" and I have no desire to waste my effort putting good evidence in front of you just so you can scream "NO! Muh Feelin's!" all over again and deny the undeniable.

I'll sit here and jack my jaw instead, because that is entertaining. Spending the next 45 minutes googling and cross-referencing random crap that I don't find entertaining is low on my list of priorities while I finish my coffee this morning.

 

[EdzUp]

seeing as they are bringing out patches still someone is working on it. Does it matter how many, probably but maybe not after all as long as it's being worked on there isn't a problem. If development stops for months then years then worry.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Yes they will use the experienced staff from planet coaster on planet safari as they will most like be using the same or very similar tech. Not from ED as that is a completely different type of game. The only thing similar is that they use the same game engine.

Apply some logic to your inane ramblings please.

It's all on the same engine buddy. If you have experience with the Cobra engine, you can apply it to any game that uses the Cobra engine.

Do you know how to use a wrench? If I were to put a bicycle in front of you and a lawnmower, hand you a 1/2 inch wrench and tell you to pull the wheel off of both of them would you then tell me you can't pull the wheel off of a lawnmower because you only know how to use a wrench on a bicycle?

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seeing as they are bringing out patches still someone is working on it. Does it matter how many, probably but maybe not after all as long as it's being worked on there isn't a problem. If development stops for months then years then worry.

Quality of work is definitely suffering. See 2.3.

That matters to a lot of people.