2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[lokvette]

And when we get to that stage, people will bemoan the added complexity of getting onto your mates ship due to being used to the streamlined, instant gratification that we'll be used to.



In which I will sit in the copilot seat doing nothing



Elites too fast paced for this to work I think. By the time youve sent out a request for help youd either have been dead or highwaked.



Driving School: Dangerous?



Making the galaxy smaller and removing consequences of player choice? Sounds delightful.



Youve already said this one three times.



Instant ship transfer opens up the game, and offers huge amounta of opportunities to players. What a lot of people are getting a little annoyed with is the hypocrisy of a lot of people on this forum who argued for ship transfers as being unimmersive, but argue that instant crew transfer is needed for gameplay

Sorry OA, I have a lot of respect for your work över on You Tube, and kudos to the person offering the service, but have to agree with Goose on this one.

Its nothing to do with instant travel, more to do with what you do when you get there.

 

[maxpayne]

Again with the mult-crew sneak peak comes out, players are arguing for the immersion-breaking instant transfer.

To settle this controversy, would FDev please consider adding a stargate facility which transfers player to the home systems of the 3 major powers and the powerplay powers?

Principle:
1.
Player can select to transfer to the home systems of 3 major powers

2.
Player can select to transfer to the home system of the powerplay power IF they are pledged to that power AND within their territory.

3.
Player can return to the origin.

The reasons for this:
1.
The most important "I don't want telepresence/ any immersion breaking mechanism" argument can be settled.

2.
The gameplay is focused on combat, which happens mostly within the bubble.

3.
The home system of the 3 major powers and powerplay powers can serve as a game lobby gathering players

Limitations

1. A cooldown timer should be added. The time required for cooldown should be same as ship transfer UNLESS it is a return trip.

2. No cargo/vouchers/powerplay commodity is allowed/ will be transferred.

3. Limited daily use? perhaps 3 times per day to prevent exploit.

I am inclined towards the instant transfer fun. But I saw a valid argument which the instant transfer will affect spaceleg when it comes out.

 

[Xender]

I think telepresence should be replaced with ability to fast travel between stations. Thanks to that you will have "one physically" uniform multicrew system which can be extended in future. If you use telepresence, how it will work when you add Space Legs? Will you create second, physical multicrew to handle more advanced interactions? Do you think that way of developing placeholder functionalities it is a good solution?

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Youve already said this one three times.

You misunderstand, with this last point I am saying that people out in deep space that return to the bubble and experience all these things. With the former point I am saying that people inside the bubble can go out into deep space. Two quite different things.

In which I will sit in the copilot seat doing nothing

Here you are talking about the depth of gameplay, which is a completely different subject to instant transfer. You are right, Elite is seriously lacking depth and complex gameplay loops.

Making the galaxy smaller and removing consequences of player choice? Sounds delightful.

As you pointed out yourself - the players cannot physically do anything when they get there. There's no removal of player choice, because the player isn't actually there. It's merely a flying visit where they cannot interact. If they want the full experience, they will have to travel there themselves.

And when we get to that stage, people will bemoan the added complexity of getting onto your mates ship due to being used to the streamlined, instant gratification that we'll be used to.

Why would they complain about the added complexity, if there are two modes to join a crew? 1) Instant Joining 2) Physically Joining. If they have the choice of both with option 1 having extreme limitations vs option 2 the only people who would complain are the few unreasonable people.

Instant ship transfer opens up the game, and offers huge amounta of opportunities to players. What a lot of people are getting a little annoyed with is the hypocrisy of a lot of people on this forum who argued for ship transfers as being unimmersive, but argue that instant crew transfer is needed for gameplay

The argument against instant-transfer ships was never one of "immersion". That was a straw-man argument. It amazes me that this belief still persists.

 

[Alec Turner]

Instant crew joining works for a lot of reasons, primarily because this is a game and it is about fun. But also because it opens up a lot of future possibilities:

• Such as joining deep space expeditions
• Helping people out who are in a tough spot
• Learning the ropes of the game
• Instant "this is how you do xyz" tutorial fly-throughs
• Seeing areas of the galaxy you may never otherwise see
• Getting involved with puzzles that are separated by 10k light years (people will be able to help with the Formidine, Conflux, Hawking's Gap and Alien Ruins searches without having to choose)
• Taking a trip to Colonia to help a player or for fun

I can add a couple more to that list actually. ElectricZ (founder of Buckyball racing) pointed out that we could use the multi-crew feature to allow spectators (or those wishing to watch and learn) to join our ship while we're doing a race run to get a taste of the action. It also occurs to me that the Fuel Rats could use multi-crew as a training mechanism for new recruits, basically allowing them to sit in on a rescue op and again, watch and learn. Of course with both of these we'd need to be careful about accidentally allowing a griefer onto our ship (especially in the case of fuel ratting, how awfull would it be if the alleged student suddenly decided to open fire on the stranded client - I guess not having turretted weapons fitted is the answer to that one although it also raises an interesting question - can someone join a ship as crew if the ship in question has neither turreted weapons nor SLFs fitted?).

 

[Bobbydylan]

• Such as joining deep space expeditions
• Helping people out who are in a tough spot
• Learning the ropes of the game
• Instant "this is how you do xyz" tutorial fly-throughs
• Seeing areas of the galaxy you may never otherwise see
• Getting involved with puzzles that are separated by 10k light years (people will be able to help with the Formidine, Conflux, Hawking's Gap and Alien Ruins searches without having to choose)
• Taking a trip to Colonia to help a player or for fun

* And do what on these expeditions. Watch then? I can already do that on your fantastic youtube videos.
* Who will just about be dead (if in PVP) by the time you spawn in. Most PVP ganks last seconds, and PVE will never need this.
* Don't we already have those awesome new tutorials.
* and we have inara and other online servies that aren't dependant on risking taking a stranger onto your ship and putting him in control of the weapons.
* Again, In can watch Youtube if I want to watch a ship I have no control over fly past a planet.
* The Puzzels.... *sigh* ok, maybe I guess for like the 30 or so people who care about the breadcrumbs off FD's table, then sure.
* I can also take a trip to colonia in my own ship or a wing.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Sorry OA, I have a lot of respect for your work över on You Tube, and kudos to the person offering the service, but have to agree with Goose on this one.

Its nothing to do with instant travel, more to do with what you do when you get there.

The depth of gameplay is a totally different subject. I've said many times that gameplay within Elite needs a lot more depth and more complexity.

The "lack of anything to do", isn't a reflection on instant transfer. If a player had to physically join an exploration ship, and then travelled 60k Ly with their friend, but the update still had the same proposed mechanics, then the additional crew member would still have nothing to do but sit there.

I haven't talked about the depth of gameplay, or my opinion on the proposed gameplay mechanics of 2.3 yet. Please don't confuse my support of instant crew joining with me supporting shallow gameplay. These are two very different subjects.

- - - Updated - - -

* And do what on these expeditions. Watch then? I can already do that on your fantastic youtube videos.
* Who will just about be dead (if in PVP) by the time you spawn in. Most PVP ganks last seconds, and PVE will never need this.
* Don't we already have those awesome new tutorials.
* and we have inara and other online servies that aren't dependant on risking taking a stranger onto your ship and putting him in control of the weapons.
* Again, In can watch Youtube if I want to watch a ship I have no control over fly past a planet.
* The Puzzels.... *sigh* ok, maybe I guess for like the 30 or so people who care about the breadcrumbs off FD's table, then sure.
* I can also take a trip to colonia in my own ship or a wing.

As I said above. Gameplay (or the lack of it) is a totally different subject to instant crew joining. Even if we have to phsyically board another players ship, the points you raise here are still the same. I agree with the points you make, but they have no relationship to the instant join / physically join issue.

I have never said I support shallow gameplay (in fact I am also constantly on Frontier's case about their approach to gameplay). I do support ease of access however.

For what it's worth, I am also disappointed with the lack of tasks and roles we seem to be getting for multicrew. It seems very lacking indeed.

 

[Xender]

I think that Guardians monolith network and implant technologies may be connected with multicrew telepresence, it sounds reasonable and will fit well into lore. However I am still disappointed because I expected much more from this update, something like sharing ship, but Frontier will give us another mini-game

 

[Muetdhiver]

I think telepresence should be replaced with ability to fast travel between stations. Thanks to that you will have "one physically" uniform multicrew system which can be extended in future. If you use telepresence, how it will work when you add Space Legs? Will you create second, physical multicrew to handle more advanced interactions? Do you think that way of developing placeholder functionalities it is a good solution?

Telepresence + Androids = Space legs. No issues there. And don't tell me that androids are too advanced for XXXIVth century...

Also, my opinion is that any obstacle put in the way of smoothly using multicrew for quick play (like asking that players join in the same station and other such shemes) will remove 90%
of the gameplay potential from this feature. I know that some think that any form of quick play in ED is wrong, but quick play (a great part of what is called casual gameplay (with a sneer))
would allow a lot of players to get in ED in a casual way.

I do hope that multicrew will be available to all (not just horizon players), as it would be a fantastic way of teasing horizon content.

 

[Von Elsner]

It is interesting that no one seems to be defending these design choices in saying that they make in game sense, are consistent or make sense in the official lore of the game etc.
Everyone seems OK in creating some other muffle to explain it away, just imagine this or that.
Surely those of you choosing to do this that really care about the game, as I do, must be getting a bit worried that Fdev didn't have all this planned a couple of years ago.
It is not a good sign...what else in the future are they going to pull out of the ether with very little explanation or consistency in how it affects other features in the game, or the lore, this should have all been hermetically sealed ages ago.
This level of confusion, debate and argument on how a major feature fits into the game should not be happening.
I would be horrified if when I designed game worlds to play in when roleplaying with friends if they could pull the stuff I had created in game apart like this and they would be horrified as players if I said, well thats the way it is, get over it, think up your own explanation.
I really expect more from a multi-million pound company of professional game designers.

 

[Muetdhiver]

...
The "lack of anything to do", isn't a reflection on instant transfer. If a player had to physically join an exploration ship, and then travelled 60k Ly with their friend, but the update still had the same proposed mechanics, then the additional crew member would still have nothing to do but sit there.
...

So true. And this applies to mining and trading too. Those activities don't have the gameplay fundations to support multicrew in any meaningfull way.

And telepresence makes sense in the game. I mean, we already have FTL space communication (galnet & powerplay news & galmap). So what is the big deal if the FTL data transfer is instead
used for telepresence. In fact it would be nuts for a society having FTL communication ability not to use it for telepresence. Immershun cuts both ways XD

 

[Xender]

Telepresence + Androids = Space legs. No issues there. And don't tell me that androids are too advanced for XXXIVth century...

Also, my opinion is that any obstacle put in the way of smoothly using multicrew for quick play (like asking that players join in the same station and other such shemes) will remove 90%
of the gameplay potential from this feature. I know that some think that any form of quick play in ED is wrong, but quick play (a great part of what is called casual gameplay (with a sneer))
would allow a lot of players to get in ED in a casual way.

I do hope that multicrew will be available to all (not just horizon players), as it would be a fantastic way of teasing horizon content.

If this is possible to have telepresence and android crew I want to stay on station and control my ships remotely, I want to be able to switch between my ships instantly - I said that many times, in many topics, but no one respond to this. Maybe this time?

 

[lokvette]

The depth of gameplay is a totally different subject. I've said many times that gameplay within Elite needs a lot more depth and more complexity.

The "lack of anything to do", isn't a reflection on instant transfer. If a player had to physically join an exploration ship, and then travelled 60k Ly with their friend, but the update still had the same proposed mechanics, then the additional crew member would still have nothing to do but sit there.

I haven't talked about the depth of gameplay, or my opinion on the proposed gameplay mechanics of 2.3 yet. Please don't confuse my support of instant crew joining with me supporting shallow gameplay. These are two very different subjects.

Nods head in OA's general direction (from the north east coast of Sweden that is west by somewhere im sure) fair enough sir, fair enough.

I shall hold judgment

 

[huehnerfaust]

I really expect more from a multi-million pound company of professional game designers.

Me too! And nearly every time it leads to a hughe let down. I need to stop expecting thinks, from so called game designers, which apperantly won't play there own game.

 

[horizone]

Elite has this quality of making you feel like you are a person in another universe. You are out there, alone, in the unforgiving cold darkness of space trying to make a living, trying to survive. To visit any new uncharted worlds, you have to plan ahead. Making sure fuel capacity is sufficient and equipping repair modules and fuel scoops and other things you might need. Then after careful preparation, you set of on your journey, not knowing if you'll come back in one piece or be lost out there in the void. PLING: Do you want to join my crew at the other side of the galaxy?

Instant is needed at all cost. Your should NOT be able to insta-move your main Commander. Only a secondary character.

 

[Cheapchips]

I haven't read all of the thread. Hugs to the Devs if they reach this far.[heart] (or anyone else for that matter)

The Dev update has me really excited for multicrew. I wouldn't have said it'd be something I'd try before the update but the accessability proposed is perfect for me.

Looking forwards to trying it out in a few weeks.

 

[Sacman]

The depth of gameplay is a totally different subject. I've said many times that gameplay within Elite needs a lot more depth and more complexity.

The "lack of anything to do", isn't a reflection on instant transfer. If a player had to physically join an exploration ship, and then travelled 60k Ly with their friend, but the update still had the same proposed mechanics, then the additional crew member would still have nothing to do but sit there.

I haven't talked about the depth of gameplay, or my opinion on the proposed gameplay mechanics of 2.3 yet. Please don't confuse my support of instant crew joining with me supporting shallow gameplay. These are two very different subjects.

Ähm ... sorry OA but here i have to disagree completely ... this stupid telepresence-instant-teleporting MC stuff is the INCARNATION OF SHALLOW GAMEPLAY in all its glory!

 

[fennster]

I can add a couple more to that list actually. ElectricZ (founder of Buckyball racing) pointed out that we could use the multi-crew feature to allow spectators (or those wishing to watch and learn) to join our ship while we're doing a race run to get a taste of the action. It also occurs to me that the Fuel Rats could use multi-crew as a training mechanism for new recruits, basically allowing them to sit in on a rescue op and again, watch and learn. Of course with both of these we'd need to be careful about accidentally allowing a griefer onto our ship (especially in the case of fuel ratting, how awfull would it be if the alleged student suddenly decided to open fire on the stranded client - I guess not having turretted weapons fitted is the answer to that one although it also raises an interesting question - can someone join a ship as crew if the ship in question has neither turreted weapons nor SLFs fitted?).

Wait.. That means they can be aboard the rescue ship as it's on its way to rescue them... Assuming fuel/oxygen doesn't tick down whilst on another ship in MC.

I'm getting more and more certain that MC will not be available from any point in space from your ship.

 

[Krieger]

I think Frontier's desire to bring season 2 to an end (finally) is the main driver for the multicrew feature set. What the Dev Diary describes is probably what they have working in a developer build right now. It will be merged with the release branch with as little additional development as possible. Probably there is no time/budget left to design and build a mechanism for assembling a crew in a way that is fun and consistent with the existing gameworld. (Planning a trip to fill a ship with a crew could be fun gameplay in itself IMHO. If all crew members are located in the bubble, we're talking about 15 minutes or so.).

I understand things like this happen when running a big project, but I think FDEV should be more open about it.

 

[Furinkazan]

I see a lot of comments along the lines of "different roles will come later". Why exactly, would you think that? Have NPC Wings turned up yet? Has Powerplay received an overhaul? Have any of the placeholder features been fleshed out yet? No. No they haven't, and they probably never will.

Not to mention Ed already said "no further roles are planned".