2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Robert Maynard]

Do you even combat?

I'm training up a pilot right now and one thing is dead obvious about SLF's. You've got to babysit them, because if you don't the NPC's will just park and rotate to line up on them and nuke them.

Put two SLF's on one target and that can't happen. Now those two SLF's are completely independent, doing silly amounts of damage, and I'm left to do combat on my own with another target after tagging their victim to make sure I get the bounties.

The difference between 1 SLF and 2 SLF's is huge. You go from being able to do a little extra damage to having the force projection of 2 players.

It has been known, from time to time.

The argument put forward disregards the fact that Frontier are offering the possibility of launching two SLFs to Multi-Crewed ships - so that cat is well and truly out of the bag (once released, of course).

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Sorry but that doesn't say anything about who is working on what project. Planet Coaster has their own team, and ED has theirs with maybe a few that cross over.

ED is a far more complex beast then Planet Coaster, so comparing them and the development pace is pointless.

We also have no idea what the Horizons sales are as there is no information about that. Again zero evidence and pure spectulation on your part.

I also suspect we are moving away from the seasons of upgrades, not because of development time, but because it isn't cost effective. But again that is an opinion of mine nad not a fact until FDev actually come out and say something concrete.

Do the math.

You have pieces of a pie.

Take half of that pie away. That's future products.

Divide that pie again because of Planet Coasters.

Divide it again for the PS4 release of ED.

Divide it again for the continued development of XB1.

That piece of crust that just fell off? Push that to the side, that's CQC.

Now with what's left for the PC version of ED, divide it up between PC and MacOS. MacOS only gets a small portion of what's left mind.

Divide the PC version again for the removal of DX10 support.

Now tell me what percentage you have left for ED's core development team?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Ok something just occured to me, here I am flying along in Anaconda and I I took a look to my left, Oh an empty chair, and to the right Oh empty chair. now its not the fact there empty that got to me, but more the fact of whats infront of those chairs.

On the left we have what looks like a Navigation Hud with KB, on my right we have what looks like an Engineering Hud with KB, but as we wont be getting either of those aforementioned roles in the upcoming patch, are these going to replaced if this is indeed where said MC will be sitting,or is there still hope for the future.

Or are they merely place holders for us to look at and dream what might off been as we hurtle along at SC trying to get to the station/planet/sun where ever your journey is taking you.

Excellent question......have some virtual rep, Commander +1!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nice bit of doublespeak for "Our Expansion flopped but it's okay because we made up for it by selling other things."

That rather depends on the following sentence, i.e. "but unit sales of the base game were higher at the time" and also the conscious use of the word "initially", from which can be inferred that it subsequently improved.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Do the math.

You have pieces of a pie.

Take half of that pie away. That's future products.

Divide that pie again because of Planet Coasters.

Divide it again for the PS4 release of ED.

Divide it again for the continued development of XB1.

That piece of crust that just fell off? Push that to the side, that's CQC.

Now with what's left for the PC version of ED, divide it up between PC and MacOS. MacOS only gets a small portion of what's left mind.

Divide the PC version again for the removal of DX10 support.

Now tell me what percentage you have left for ED's core development team?

But the pie is now bigger as they have added to the pie by hiring more staff for development of new IP's.

As stated WE DON'T KNOW and saying anything is pure speculation.

 

[Whitehair]

Do the math.

You have pieces of a pie.

Take half of that pie away. That's future products.

Divide that pie again because of Planet Coasters.

Divide it again for the PS4 release of ED.

Divide it again for the continued development of XB1.

That piece of crust that just fell off? Push that to the side, that's CQC.

Now with what's left for the PC version of ED, divide it up between PC and MacOS. MacOS only gets a small portion of what's left mind.

Divide the PC version again for the removal of DX10 support.

Now tell me what percentage you have left for ED's core development team?

I'm glad you are not the CEO.

 

[Robert Maynard]

51% in unreleased titles, not including Planet Coaster, which you can rest assured has the Lion's share of devs on it right now given that it's a new product that's still getting the kinks ironed out. If there's any doubt about that look at Planet Coaster's pace of development and compare that to ED.

Thanks for the link.

A percentage is relatively meaningless without reference to the number of development staff available - both then and now.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It has been known, from time to time.

The argument put forward disregards the fact that Frontier are offering the possibility of launching two SLFs to Multi-Crewed ships - so that cat is well and truly out of the bag (once released, of course).

But only if you have a minimum of 2 players to do so. That's an obvious attempt at balance.

NPC's and players alike just can't deal with multiple SLF's well. They reposition too quickly. That's why NPC's have a habit of coming to a dead stop now when you grossly outmaneuver them.

 

[smiths121]

Sorry but that doesn't say anything about who is working on what project. Planet Coaster has their own team, and ED has theirs with maybe a few that cross over.

ED is a far more complex beast then Planet Coaster, so comparing them and the development pace is pointless.

We also have no idea what the Horizons sales are as there is no information about that. Again zero evidence and pure spectulation on your part.

I also suspect we are moving away from the seasons of upgrades, not because of development time, but because it isn't cost effective. But again that is an opinion of mine nad not a fact until FDev actually come out and say something concrete.

I agree with that, particularly the moving away from season passes. ED had to do financial tricks with season 2 passes and lifetime passes to place the income in the correct financial year.

I think we will end up playing for major/minor updates as they happen to spread the income.

And no, the irony of speculating, in response to a post pointing out speculation has not escaped me.

Simon

 

[Kellan Fell]

Man, what happened Sandro. You went from this:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-with-me-”-Ship-Management-in-Elite-Dangerous

To a remote turret mode?

So much has changed in the 3 years since this came out...
It's amazing how the promised and expectations of kickstarter, alpha and premium beta have all gradually fallen by the wayside, in favour of convenience and pew-pew.
Right now I'd just be happy if the cockpit displays differed slightly between ship manufacturers (a bit like car dashboards). I get that there is a "universal standard" in the same way that all cars have a speedo and a fuel guage, but wouldn't it be nice if Gutamaya displays looked different to ZPG displays, which looked different to Lakon displays, in the same way that a Jaguar dashboard looks different to a Mini.

Even just bringing that in would excite me more than a remote turret mode and an extra SLF, that as a lone wolf player I am unlikely to even see since I can't swap to those seats on my own ship!

 

[stooger]

I don't like magic in Ed so I don't like teleporting into someones ship no matter how far away (so anyone in the bubble can TP to anyone at the colonia? thats imo). I geuss there won't be a way to transport players across the galaxy for a (even automatically calculated) fee? I don't like idea of tpp view for the gunner seat (another gameplay > realism/common sense idea). But as I'm not that interested in sharing my ship with others then it won't affect me that much. To be not that negative about everything I can say I like ability to create my pilot avatar and be something more than faceless figure.
Multicrew to be somewhat appealing for me it should have npcs for my ship posts. Star trek bridge commander anyone? Yeah something like that would be great with npcs reporting about my ship systems status and giving bonuses based on their ranks etc.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I'm glad you are not the CEO.

I'm glad I'm not relying on you to apply reasoning to reality.

Look at the current state of the game. You don't need a financial report to read the writing on the wall.

- - - Updated - - -

But the pie is now bigger as they have added to the pie by hiring more staff for development of new IP's.

As stated WE DON'T KNOW and saying anything is pure speculation.

Number of staff is 360ish compared to 240ish when ED was released.

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I agree with that, particularly the moving away from season passes. ED had to do financial tricks with season 2 passes and lifetime passes to place the income in the correct financial year.

I think we will end up playing for major/minor updates as they happen to spread the income.

And no, the irony of speculating, in response to a post pointing out speculation has not escaped me.

Simon

At least I say it is pure speculation instead of trying to say it is a fact like some others.

 

[Whitehair]

I'm glad I'm not relying on you to apply reasoning to reality.

Look at the current state of the game. You don't need a financial report to read the writing on the wall.

- - - Updated - - -


Number of staff is 360ish compared to 240ish when ED was released.

No matter how you look at it, ED is being phased out.

Give me break. People have been calling this since before the game was released.

It happens every time a release is announced.

“The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.” to use an old quote.

 

[Von Elsner]

Yep, why walk anywhere when you can telepresence straight into the Faction office from you commanders chair. None of it makes any sense within the existing game lore.

Exactly. Galaxy wide telepresence is a ridiculously powerful tool that should have been properly planned for and then implemented. I do love it as a tool actually, there is a really interesting RPG called Eclipse Phase that uses it really well.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Yep, why walk anywhere when you can telepresence straight into the Faction office from you commanders chair. None of it makes any sense within the existing game lore.

This is why Ozram's solution is so elegant. You want crew? Hire NPC crew. If a human wants to join your crew, then they do so by effectively taking over your NPC. In this way, there is no need for "handwavium" to explain how you got on-board the ship, there are less issues relating to connectivity (if the player drops, control returns to the NPC) & the anti-social members of the community get their NPC crew......everyone is happy .

 

[raymondo the great]

Wanna try that again? I just linked the financial report.



Nice bit of doublespeak for "Our Expansion flopped but it's okay because we made up for it by selling other things."

You linked to a report for the financial year ending in 2016 that is over six months old! You don know that lots of sales have happened since yeah?

You do know that things may have changed, either for better or worse since then yeah?

Now if it was for worse why not provide the latest update to prove your point?

What other things were they selling in May 2016? PLANET COASTER WASN'T RELEASED!

They were selling Elite, making money FROM ELITE!

But you don't like that fact do you? Because it doesn't fit your narrative....

Oh and they sold several hundred thousand units since that report and have now sold more than 2million units...and that was at the end of last year!

Now WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY THAT AGAIN? With up to date information perhaps?

Or perhaps you'd just like to jog on now you've been busted?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

At least I say it is pure speculation instead of trying to say it is a fact like some others.

Please, oh wise one. Tell me what I'm not understanding about FDev's archaic business model that should have been retired a decade ago.

This is how finances work for a dev studio...

You make a game.

Money for said game goes into paying for the long development process and for paying for the new product that you're going to begin development on (Planet coaster, unannounced titles)

When said game tails off in profits, as they always do, you cut down on continuing development, if any. Otherwise you're just throwing money away. Better off spending that money on new products.

If Expansions don't work, you don't offer more expansions. You've already poisoned the well and that is again wasted money. Move that money to a new IP.

Phase out extraneous product versions. CQC is dead? Oh no... MacOS version isn't getting Horizons? Deary me.....

Release new products and when initial product at the beginning of this example fails to be profitable, move it into legacy maintenance.


It's not my fault FDev is still developing games like it's 2001.

 

[raymondo the great]

This is why Ozram's solution is so elegant. You want crew? Hire NPC crew. If a human wants to join your crew, then they do so by effectively taking over your NPC. In this way, there is no need for "handwavium" to explain how you got on-board the ship, there are less issues relating to connectivity (if the player drops, control returns to the NPC) & the anti-social members of the community get their NPC crew......everyone is happy .

Actually this still leaves a lot of questions

Such as...why am I paying my crew a 12% cut but when commander nobody jumps in he just gets what I earn straight into his account? If he is just replacing the NPC AI why is he getting any money at all? What handwavium is explain them earning more money and money going into the account of someone who isn't actually your employee?

If I hire you to do a job and your mate bob turns up instead do I pay him? No! I tell him to sod off and tell you you are fired!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Do you even combat?

I'm training up a pilot right now and one thing is dead obvious about SLF's. You've got to babysit them, because if you don't the NPC's will just park and rotate to line up on them and nuke them.

Put two SLF's on one target and that can't happen. Now those two SLF's are completely independent, doing silly amounts of damage, and I'm left to do combat on my own with another target after tagging their victim to make sure I get the bounties.

The difference between 1 SLF and 2 SLF's is huge. You go from being able to do a little extra damage to having the force projection of 2 players.

I combat a lot.....and SLF's perform exceptionally well.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually this still leaves a lot of questions

Such as...why am I paying my crew a 12% cut but when commander nobody jumps in he just gets what I earn straight into his account? If he is just replacing the NPC AI why is he getting any money at all? What handwavium is explain them earning more money and money going into the account of someone who isn't actually your employee?

If I hire you to do a job and your mate bob turns up instead do I pay him? No! I tell him to sod off and tell you you are fired!

It should be the same for Players as it is for NPC's IMHO.