2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Muetdhiver]

I didn't stumble upon Part One, but completed IWar 2. And that was also pure awesomeness. And we had a home base there! With commodity storage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCNKEY8ojw

highly recommended while we wait on the 2.3 and 2.4 ;-)

IWar2 had probably the best newtonian space combat ever made. And moving the tug really felt like moving an 80t piece of Junk at 1Km/s.

Also, hidden base, nukes, real scale stellar systems, NPC carrying stuff making sense with where they come from / go to, stations with lots of trafic...

Awesome game TBH.

 

[Bobbydylan]

IWar2 had probably the best newtonian space combat ever made. And moving the tug really felt like moving an 80t piece of Junk at 1Km/s.

Also, hidden base, nukes, real scale stellar systems, NPC carrying stuff making sense with where they come from / go to, stations with lots of trafic...

Awesome game TBH.

I always preferred I-war 1 tho. I think the UI just put me off i-war 2.

Till I played Iwar, I had no idea what a lagrange points was. And to this day, wherever I see one one mentioned I think of Iwar.

 

[paulkemp]

In regards to the ppl thinking the teleportation / telepresence is immersion breaking. What if my avatar in multicrew, is a virtual representation of the actual commander? Its remote controlled by a virtual avatar. Signals are tranferred through space instantly. Ships take time to transfer since they are physical objects, while this telepresence can be done instantly.

 

[KING5TON]

In regards to the ppl thinking the teleportation / telepresence is immersion breaking. What if my avatar in multicrew, is a virtual representation of the actual commander? Its remote controlled by a virtual avatar. Signals are tranferred through space instantly. Ships take time to transfer since they are physical objects, while this telepresence can be done instantly.

Sadly some one will still take offense because space logic.
Sure, they don't complain about the multiple of other things in ED and don't make much sense (like 400 tons of cargo being loaded the instant you click Buy) but maybe it's taken a lot of effort to come to terms with such inconsistencies and this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I look forward to all the threads from these people listing all the other things in ED that just don't make sense and petitioning for them to be changed since immersion is so important to them.
How long should loading 400 tons of cargo take?
How long should you wait for your escape pod to travel an unknown distance back the last docked at station (rather than the nearest) after you die?
When will the artificial cap of speed be removed?

I'm not sure how deep this particular rabbit hole goes, I could be here some time listing all the things that don't make much sense.

 

[Bobbydylan]

In regards to the ppl thinking the teleportation / telepresence is immersion breaking. What if my avatar in multicrew, is a virtual representation of the actual commander? Its remote controlled by a virtual avatar. Signals are tranferred through space instantly. Ships take time to transfer since they are physical objects, while this telepresence can be done instantly.

The problem with this is
1) Then why does the fighter have a 10km range? It's also controlled by telepresance. So is that range not actually a thing?
2) It negates the purpose of the ship in the first place. Why put a cockpit, a seat and life support in what is effectively a drone?
3) It pretty much destroys the premises of the game. We're supposed to be bad-*donkey* space pilots, not cowardly drone operators. Where's the appeal of being the first one to fly a drone onto a planet or killing a thousand other drones?

No, Long range Telepresance does more harm than good. FD should come up with an alternative for hot-join MP gunner mode.

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Sadly some one will still take offense because space logic.
Sure, they don't complain about the multiple of other things in ED and don't make much sense (like 400 tons of cargo being loaded the instant you click Buy) but maybe it's taken a lot of effort to come to terms with such inconsistencies and this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I look forward to all the threads from these people listing all the other things in ED that just don't make sense and petitioning for them to be changed since immersion is so important to them.
How long should loading 400 tons of cargo take?
How long should you wait for your escape pod to travel an unknown distance back the last docked at station (rather than the nearest) after you die?
When will the artificial cap of speed be removed?

I'm not sure how deep this particular rabbit hole goes, I could be here some time listing all the things that don't make much sense.

Again, It's not about space logic, it's about being consistent with the rules that define the game-world.
Instant 400t loading doesn't damage the premise of the game. Neither, really does the escape pod magicing back to port (at least not when faced with the alternative). It's not reasonable to expect a player to log out the game for weeks while he's rescued. It is reasonable to expect that people who want to use the same ship actually are on the same ship.

On a personal note, I always assume that between I die and am "recovered" in my last port of call, that weeks has gone by with me in cryo-sleep. I don't MP elite, and the background story is of such little interest that such an *assumption* has actually helped me come to terms with the whole "rebuy" process.

 

[Muetdhiver]

The problem with this is
1) Then why does the fighter have a 10km range? It's also controlled by telepresance. So is that range not actually a thing?
2) It negates the purpose of the ship in the first place. Why put a cockpit, a seat and life support in what is effectively a drone?
3) It pretty much destroys the premises of the game. We're supposed to be bad-*donkey* space pilots, not cowardly drone operators. Where's the appeal of being the first one to fly a drone onto a planet?

1) because the fighter does not have the sensors for FLT Broadband coms, ships do
2) because if everyone is connecting to ship from distance, and the coms hardware on this goes down => lost ship.
3) because given the tendency to crash with SLF's, all the pilots that remain (i.e. are not dead) are the ones using telepresence for such dangerous things.

Voilà !

 

[Robert Maynard]

1) Then why does the fighter have a 10km range? It's also controlled by telepresance. So is that range not actually a thing?

I suspect that that's because the fighter cannot leave the instance that the mother ship is in.

 

[PyrateLV]

Is this usual FDeb MO to announce an Update then let the community stew on it for 2 weeks before doing a Live Feed on the communities concerns?
Live Feed will be only about a week from when the Update will drop on Beta Servers for testing. This gives no time to change anything the playerbase dislikes.
Which means 2.3 will go Live exactly as FDevs want it regardless of anything the Community thinks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This gives no time to change anything the playerbase dislikes.
Which means 2.3 will go Live exactly as FDevs want it regardless of anything the Community thinks.

Is there anything that has been presented so far that players unanimously dislike?

If not, who should Frontier listen to when reading likes / dislikes regarding particular features?

 

[Bobbydylan]

1) because the fighter does not have the sensors for FLT Broadband coms, ships do
2) because if everyone is connecting to ship from distance, and the coms hardware on this goes down => lost ship.
3) because given the tendency to crash with SLF's, all the pilots that remain (i.e. are not dead) are the ones using telepresence for such dangerous things.

Voilà !

1) Plausible, but I still consider this to be rather week. Current cops range far exceed 10km, and no advance equipment is shown to be on any of the ship. But at least this is somewhat plausable.
2) But the pilot survuces. YOu lose a cheep ship but no one dies. If telepresance was a thing, maned spaceflight is not. Simple as.
3)I wasn't refering to the SLF here, I wsa referring the mother-ship. Why take an anaconda anywhere if no one is on the ship. Exploration ships should be a hyperdrive, a camera and a telepresance receiver.

- - - Updated - - -

Is there anything that has been presented so far that players unanimously dislike?

If not, who should Frontier listen to when reading likes / dislikes regarding particular features?

The 70% who vote on it? the forum polls were pretty indicative of the poll Frontier put out on timed transfers.

 

[PyrateLV]

Is there anything that has been presented so far that players unanimously dislike?

There will never be anything that any gaming community will unanimously like or dislike

If not, who should Frontier listen to when reading likes / dislikes regarding particular features?

They should listed to all sides and arguments and then make a decision on what would work for all

Are you saying that FDevs shouldnt listen to any of us and that everything that has been discussed by the community over the last 2 weeks is mute because FDevs will do what they want anyway?

 

[Robert Maynard]

There will never be anything that any gaming community will unanimously like or dislike

Indeed.

They should listed to all sides and arguments and then make a decision on what would work for all

Sort of a "nobody's happy but everyone's equally unhappy with the outcome" sort of compromise position?

Are you saying that FDevs shouldnt listen to any of us and that everything that has been discussed by the community over the last 2 weeks is mute because FDevs will do what they want anyway?

No, I'm not saying that - what I am saying is that there is not a single stance from the community. Frontier may read points made and consider them, of course, and I would expect that they have been watching this thread. However, the fact that the Beta announcement was less than one month from Beta release, it would seem unrealistic to expect massive changes with in less than a month to go, in my opinion.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The 70% who vote on it? the forum polls were pretty indicative of the poll Frontier put out on timed transfers.

Indeed they were - however the change was only possible after Frontier decided to make an off-forum officially run poll on the subject. Forum polls, in and of themselves, are not likely to change the course of development.

 

[KING5TON]

Again, It's not about space logic

Yes it is, stop trying to use real logic on me, it won't work

 

[PyrateLV]

No, I'm not saying that - what I am saying is that there is not a single stance from the community. Frontier may read points made and consider them, of course, and I would expect that they have been watching this thread. However, the fact that the Beta announcement was less than one month from Beta release, it would seem unrealistic to expect massive changes with in less than a month to go, in my opinion.

Didnt mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth. Sorry that.
I do agree though that the 2.3 announcement and its release being so close together would most likely mean little to no changes to what it initially is.

 

[zackmck]

1) because the fighter does not have the sensors for FLT Broadband coms, ships do
2) because if everyone is connecting to ship from distance, and the coms hardware on this goes down => lost ship.
3) because given the tendency to crash with SLF's, all the pilots that remain (i.e. are not dead) are the ones using telepresence for such dangerous things.

Voilà !

1) even today drones can be controlled over a distance of thousand of miles in real-time. So in ED telepresence would be some kind of selective working technology then.
2) True, but why waste an expansive anaconda, flown by a single, fragile, physical human being, who could die of space-herpes? When you can fight, explore, and trade with cheap drones? There would be no need for life support, or a cockpit, space-shower ...
3) Why is there a need for a physical presence in the SRV's then?

At the moment long range telepresence only brings us even more inconsistencies. First the other features that come with instant long range communication (SLF range, ingame EDDB, space-google ...) has to be implenented, before they introduce something like long range telepresence.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Didnt mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth. Sorry that.

No problem.

I do agree though that the 2.3 announcement and its release being so close together would most likely mean little to no changes to what it initially is.

Indeed.

 

[PyrateLV]

Flying a drone in Iraq from a console in a room in Washington is far different than transferring your Physical Presence thousands of LY to shoot the guns on your friends ship

I do like the "Agent Smith-ing" idea

 

[Muetdhiver]

1) even today drones can be controlled over a distance of thousand of miles in real-time. So in ED telepresence would be some kind of selective working technology then.
2) True, but why waste an expansive anaconda, flown by a single, fragile, physical human being, who could die of space-herpes? When you can fight, explore, and trade with cheap drones? There would be no need for life support, or a cockpit, space-shower ...
3) Why is there a need for a physical presence in the SRV's then?

At the moment long range telepresence only brings us even more inconsistencies. First the other features that come with instant long range communication (SLF range, ingame EDDB, space-google ...) before introducing something like long range telepresence.

2) True. Still, when that drone conda carrying 400 tons of gold get lost because of a software glitch... and my guess is that the cost would be still nearly as high as the "regular" meat-on-board conda.
I mean, IRL drone are cheaper than planes, but they also are : slower, less range, less armament. If one would build a drone F35, IMO it would cost nearly as much as the regular one.

3) Who knows ? I always thought that it was remote controled, since when I die in it I can return to my ship. I guess it's one of those "ED magic" that doesn't bother anyone immersion wise.

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Flying a drone in Iraq from a console in a room in Washington is far different than transferring your Physical Presence thousands of LY to shoot the guns on your friends ship

I do like the "Agent Smith-ing" idea

In 2017 sure. In 3303, who knows ?

 

[Drelthar]

It would appear that it's already "solved", from Frontier's perspective - they have chosen option 1: "Accepting telepresence".

.... which has the advantage of not, in my opinion, breaking the whole game by introducing fast travel (as, when the telepresence session ends, the player is placed back in their own ship where they were before they signed on as crew).

Sure. That's fine until we are actual people walking around, and not our ships. At that point, it's teleportation.