News 2.3 Dev Update

[Six6VI]

Your fighting is more entertaining than CQC..

Glad you're amused, but I wasn't really fighting, just trying to stick up for a game I happen to like. A lot. Must be time the rep fairy stole one of your teeth and left a shiny new one pound coin under your pillow

Edit: Repped! You made me lol

 

[Dbrn47]

Glad you're amused, but I wasn't really fighting, just trying to stick up for a game I happen to like. A lot. Must be time the rep fairy stole one of your teeth and left a shiny new one pound coin under your pillow

Edit: Repped! You made me lol

I used to be a White Space Knight like you, then I took a Containment Missile to the FSD.

 

[Ozram]

I used to be a White Space Knight like you, then I took a Containment Missile to the FSD.

Those missiles should never have been introduced into the game.

 

[Falco]

I was hyped for multicrew. And now I'm just disappointed.
- 3rd person view for guns
- turrets/fighters only, no actual management of the ship
- insta teleport however many lightyears away.

It's a kick in the balls for anyone who wanted a space sim as it was originally sold as, which it certainly isn't in the even gradeschool level of physics (they don't even understand the concept of density for cargo) or the general realism (you can buy superconductors, but you can't buy iron or sulfur), and how elite used to be back in the days, not an arcade game.
I can understand gameplay features such as the teleport, and yet, it doesn't make sense, and it wouldn't sacrifice too much accessibility for the amount of realism gained if even a little bit was given in towards the more immersion-side of things. they should at least be in the same instance, if not on the same station. you have wings, you have to meet up. you have multicrew, you can just join someone at beagle point from sol.
for turrets you would have some sort of screen and camera attached to your turret. but no, you have a third person view with a crosshair. and you don't even have a crew who can repair things, set up systems for you as you go, plot routes, manage your ship. no, why. there is nothing to manage on your ship in the first place but blips. and your crew can't even manage that. all there is is gunners and fighters.
Immersion would be nice, although I do understand some limits in favor of gameplay. But at least logic and some sort of effort would be appreciated.

If you want to see what mutlicrew should be like, have a look at pulsar: lost colony. and if you want to have a look what a space sim looks like, then have a look at rogue system.
Yes, those are extremes with multicrew / realism as the main feature from the very beginning, but frontier is not even trying at this point, going for a lazy and easy solution that looks cool and flashy.
Also the poll was a sham. There is more options than yes or no. For example having to be somewhat close.

Aside from that, there is a really big problem with the wipe the bounties and profits off. Not only doesn't it make sense, it will be abused for piracy / griefing.
- Blow stuff up that you're not supposed to for whatever reason
- (grab cargo, if used for piracy)
- have your crewmember leave, wipe the bounties
- (have the haul still, profit)
- rejoin, repeat.


Everything in the game is just a number or a picture on some sort of interface or the other, disconnecting everything for the sake of accessibility. The most 'real' thing is what happens outside the window. Yes, X rebirth was a flop for it's very implementation of boarding stations (and other things), which people were hyped about, please don't be as lazy with your game and make it any worse.

 

[irished]

Hmm I wonder

Hi everyone,

As mentioned in a previous news and updates post confirming the release date for beta, we've got a new Dev Update for you today from Lead Designer, Sandro Sammarco. Read on to find out more about what's coming in 2.3.

-------------------------------------------------------

Hello Commanders!
Now that the dust is settling on the interim update, I wanted to give you a more detailed heads up on what we’re currently working on next.

The first feature I want to discuss for 2.3 is Multicrew – the ability to join up with Commanders on the same ship and enjoy space adventures as a crew. In this post, I’ll summarise what you can expect from this exciting new update, in terms of structure and supporting features.
Please note that before now and release, some details may still change, as we’re currently in the thick of implementing this feature!

Setting up Multicrew
Fundamentally, Multicrew is about having fun with friends, so we want to make sure there are as few barriers to enjoying this feature as possible, starting with the crew formation process. We want to make it as easy as possible to start having fun on a multicrew ship.

As long as their ship has enough seats (different ships have different multicrew capabilities) a Commander can directly invite players, or can set their vessel to allow multicrew access. Commanders looking to play as crew can either accept direct invites, or activate a new “looking for ship” feature, which will automatically place them as crew on a suitable vessel with multicrew access allowed, making the process quick and painless.

When joining a crew, a Commander will log out of their current vessel and transfer to the multicrew vessel, regardless of distance. They can also leave at any time (or be evicted by the ship’s owner) at which point they can return to where their ship was last, making the whole affair a very friendly, drop in – drop out procedure.

Helm, Gunner and Fighter Con Roles
The ship’s owner always takes the role of helm, piloting the vessel and operating fixed and gimballed weaponry. They also control NPC fighter pilots. There can be up to two additional crewmembers, depending on the vessel, who can perform roles to enhance the ability of the ship. Players can also simply come along for the ride, with the pilot in a mentoring role. The helm also retains control over distribution of power, navigation, and synthesis.

The gunner role allows a crewmember to take control of all turreted weapons on the ship. They do not need to jump between turret views though. Using a third person interface, they control a reticule that all turrets within their arc will automatically follow; giving them improved spatial awareness and easy control of all turreted weapons. They also have access to two “quick slot” fire buttons, in addition to normal fire groups, that they can customize with modules, allowing them more options for activating weapons and scanners.

Furthermore, the gunner has access to advanced sensor systems, allowing them three hundred and sixty degree tracking arcs. This lets them activate advanced scanners (such as the kill warrant scanner) and missile launchers in any direction.

The fighter con role lets a crewmember launch and control a fighter, even if the helm has already launched a fighter using NPC crew. This allows multicrew ships to have two fighters active at a time. In addition, if the ship has enough fighters, both crewmembers can take on the fighter con role, meaning three human controlled ships can be flying at the same time.

Crewmembers can switch roles dynamically as they see fit. The ship owner is always the helmsman.

Additional Multicrew Benefits and Rules
Every crewmember also has access to a power distributor pip that they can assign dynamically. This is in addition to the standard pips that the helm controls. This extra power distribution allows the ship to operate more effectively, increasing its capabilities in combat.

Ship re-buy premiums are also reduced for each crewmember. Again, the purpose with this is to lower the bar to access and ease of use, especially when dealing with vessels that can cost a lot of credits.

All bounties and vouchers that the helmsman (ship owner) receives are duplicated for each crewmember, making multicrew a great way to have fun with friends without missing out on money-making opportunities.

However, as they share the benefits, so too do they share the punishments. Any crime that the ship suffers is applied to all crewmembers equally. But when a Commander leaves or ends a session, the crew will have the option of avoiding taking the crimes with them, but in doing so, will lose all credits earned. It will be their choice.

Commander Creator

And supporting multicrew in 2.3 is the Commander Creator. Commanders will be able to create a unique avatar using a wide variety of options, finally putting a face and character to their name. And with a new, fully-fledged camera system, they’ll be able to view themselves and their crew in real time as they adventure across the galaxy.


This very bit here about commander creator could this be a hint at space legs?.

 

[greatsouls]

If this is implemented the way it is described, nothing will stop somebody to start shooting other players just for fun. Then just log out and refuse to take with you the penalties, as no credits will be earned during the "fun" time anyway.
Next, Frontier may implement the same logic for NPCs They can shoot you down and refuse to take the penalties
I feel this 2.3 may be the end of Elite for me. After opening non-atmospheric planets for lending (including the srv) nothining really new has happened with the game. The ships are not interactive. In the stations we are comunicating with static pictures of agents / engineers. All this business with the Powers may have looked cool on paper, but is not really entertaining. We are getting emails with news and different stories of what had happened somewhere. Nobody have seen anything of this in the game. I do not really need a game for that. I can just grab the next sci-fi book. Two years later we are still stuck in the cockpit. The stations are lifeless. The seemless approach and lending on non-atmospheric planets is not that seemles. Things go on and on. Now we will get to create faces for our still stuck in the cockpit avatars. We should at least get a mirror in the cockpit so we can admire our avatar's look. For me it will be much better to be able to walk inside and around the ship in the hangar with a non transparent visor on the helmet instead.

 

[bitstorm]

If this is implemented the way it is described, nothing will stop somebody to start shooting other players just for fun. Then just log out and refuse to take with you the penalties, as no credits will be earned during the "fun" time anyway.

I don't think the driver can evade responsibility.

But that aside, there's nothing stopping players shooting others for fun currently is there? Which is why people have been wanting some sort of crime/punishment system implemented.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

I don't think the driver can evade responsibility.

But that aside, there's nothing stopping players shooting others for fun currently is there? Which is why people have been wanting some sort of crime/punishment system implemented.

What he means is someone can sign up as crew then shoot things purely to grief the ships owner/pilot then leave without penalty, leaving the penalty on the pilot who cant escape it. Thats one exploit.

Another is allowing a player to crew for you who then does nothing and gets a free copy of the credits the owner/pilot makes. A free powerleveling/credit duplicating 'exploit' I say exploit like that as it isn't an exploit, its a deliberate design feature to deliberately implement an exploit! Really the mind boggles...

 

[bitstorm]

What he means is someone can sign up as crew then shoot things purely to grief the ships owner/pilot then leave without penalty, leaving the penalty on the pilot who cant escape it. Thats one exploit.

So what's the solution? Don't give them access to guns? Make it so the main CMDR has to authorise every target?

Don't allow players to invite random players?

Have the crew keep the punishment? So that anyone joining crew can be "griefed" in reverse?

Perhaps there's a ban option? Or if players are doing this we report to FD and move on?

In then end if you're worried about it just invite friends?

And if the UI is good enough, I think it's unlikely crew will be able to destroy a ship before being booted. Worst case will be a wanted for the main CMDR.

Another is allowing a player to crew for you who then does nothing and gets a free copy of the credits the owner/pilot makes. A free powerleveling/credit duplicating 'exploit' I say exploit like that as it isn't an exploit, its a deliberate design feature to deliberately implement an exploit! Really the mind boggles...

I don't think it's that hard to understand. They clearly want to encourage people to multicrew, if the rewards are high then people are more likely to stay for the ride.

But if say rewards were split 3 ways with 3 CMDRs, people will be like "nah the money's crap, what's the point, I'll just do it solo". The thinking is to try to remove barriers for people.

When you think about it, it's difficult to come up with a solution which does not prevent what you're talking about, while not placing a barrier that puts people off multicrewing.

Yes exploits are a concern for many people, loads of discussion over the forum about it, but it is hard to know what Frontier's policy on such money earning would be given Sothis, Draconis etc..

I suspect tweaks and/or changes will happen down the line. (or not)

 

[BigF]

The concern for me is the smaller ship owners, it takes so much less to take one down, newer players could fall fowl to MC ganking drop in drop out attacks, while they may not get ultimately destroyed by it, it will likely cost them.

That said anyone who's been destroyed for 200 credits in a Rez point by a bunch of turn coat local authorities NPC's will be worried about drop in pew pew drop out, clear my record for loosing credits.

It would seem all you'll need to do is play nice for one kill to rack up credits, then go loco, and log off swapping earned credits for status. Leaving the Cmdr to sweep up the ash that was his ship.

I hope a banning system is implemented, so you can block a player from comming back, and it's tied into an anti greifing system, where FD look at continuous offenders and block or wan after so many counts.

 

[ihtyrrommel]

bye bye galaxy...

 

[BurnyBurns]

The concern for me is the smaller ship owners, it takes so much less to take one down, newer players could fall fowl to MC ganking drop in drop out attacks, while they may not get ultimately destroyed by it, it will likely cost them.

Why is that even a concern? If whoever ganks small ship owners and new players has a large, multiseat ship, they're already more than capable of doing so without multicrew if they're hell bend on it. If they have a fighter and AI pilot, they already have the glass cannon available as single player. If they have a multicrew-fitted ship with turrets, it doesn't make matters any worse than if they were alone and had higher DPS weaponry (fixed or gimbals).


This is lamenting symptoms, not issues. The issue being that ganking players has no appropriate ingame consequences for those doing the ganking. And multicrew does really not look as if it'll aggravate ganking anymore. If anything, the people at the receiving end could be happy to only face a multicrew ship and not a wing. The latter is entirely possible right now, if three players chose to do it. Whether any multicrew balancing can compete in damage output against three separate murder ships is highly questionable.

 

[ZeroAi]

So what's the solution? Don't give them access to guns? Make it so the main CMDR has to authorise every target?

Don't allow players to invite random players?

Have the crew keep the punishment? So that anyone joining crew can be "griefed" in reverse?

Perhaps there's a ban option? Or if players are doing this we report to FD and move on?

In then end if you're worried about it just invite friends?

And if the UI is good enough, I think it's unlikely crew will be able to destroy a ship before being booted. Worst case will be a wanted for the main CMDR.



I don't think it's that hard to understand. They clearly want to encourage people to multicrew, if the rewards are high then people are more likely to stay for the ride.

But if say rewards were split 3 ways with 3 CMDRs, people will be like "nah the money's crap, what's the point, I'll just do it solo". The thinking is to try to remove barriers for people.

When you think about it, it's difficult to come up with a solution which does not prevent what you're talking about, while not placing a barrier that puts people off multicrewing.

Yes exploits are a concern for many people, loads of discussion over the forum about it, but it is hard to know what Frontier's policy on such money earning would be given Sothis, Draconis etc..

I suspect tweaks and/or changes will happen down the line. (or not)

+ Rep - well put!

 

[Falco]

So what's the solution? Don't give them access to guns? Make it so the main CMDR has to authorise every target?

Don't allow players to invite random players?

Have the crew keep the punishment? So that anyone joining crew can be "griefed" in reverse?

Perhaps there's a ban option? Or if players are doing this we report to FD and move on?

In then end if you're worried about it just invite friends?

And if the UI is good enough, I think it's unlikely crew will be able to destroy a ship before being booted. Worst case will be a wanted for the main CMDR.



I don't think it's that hard to understand. They clearly want to encourage people to multicrew, if the rewards are high then people are more likely to stay for the ride.

But if say rewards were split 3 ways with 3 CMDRs, people will be like "nah the money's crap, what's the point, I'll just do it solo". The thinking is to try to remove barriers for people.

When you think about it, it's difficult to come up with a solution which does not prevent what you're talking about, while not placing a barrier that puts people off multicrewing.

Yes exploits are a concern for many people, loads of discussion over the forum about it, but it is hard to know what Frontier's policy on such money earning would be given Sothis, Draconis etc..

The solution is simple:
Rewards and punishments stick.
The accessibility is just a poor and lazy implementation choice.
And if they really wanted to have people play together then at least be consistent about it. We have wings and money is split in three for three people. People have to be together in the first place. They can't just jump 20000ly to their friend just because they're in a wing.
And the results are clear. Multicrew, compared to wings is way overpowered, while wings are really only viable in groups of 2 at best.
Making elite an arcade game is not what I wanted from this. And it isn't what was promised to me. If you want instant teamplay, go play team fortress or something. I for one want to enjoy multicrew, not just have access to it across the galaxy.

The elite universe seems dead and disconnected through pictures on interfaces badly enough that you need to roleplay in your head to enjoy the game in the first place. Killing the fourth wall through such ridiculous implementations of features for the sake of accessibility is not helping in the slightest.

So I recommend this:
- Increase payout for wings.
- Don't allow people to perform multicrew without actually being close to transfer to the other ship. (same instances, if not even the same station)
- Have your crew actually do something (useful and realistic), even in a freighter or explorer.

Also there is a big problem for progression skip. Someone with their sidewinder and 2000credits can just join some anaconda who than proceeds to kill a bunch of dropships and clippers in a RES, get a few millions within an hour or two.

Also a punishment system is long overdue. People just sit outside the stations eravate and lhs 3447 and kill the new players in their fully engineered anacondas and ferdelances, feeling great about themselves, with no reason whatsoever except to ruin the fun for other people. They get merely a few thousand credits of bounty, where they have millions in their account. Not only that, they can just jump into a sidewinder, fly into the station wall and all their bounties are paid for, paying virtually nothing for the rebuy.
And now it is even EASIER for those people. What the are you thinking?
Solution:
- Harsh punishments for commander kills. around 100k - 200k per kill, perhaps proportional to assets (not bank account balance)
- Superfaction wide bounties for commander kills, not local.
- Bounties sticks even after death if not killed by another player.
- Easy to access bounty list with location and ship information
Although of course that would be abused as well. Those griefers would just have their friends kill them, and even get a big reward out of it.
- Bounty is subtracted from the commanders who are killed.
Issue fixed.

 

[CMDR Drake]

Multicrew
This is a great idea, meet up with friends in the same ship and work together to earn cash, complete missions and whatever...!

But.
Instant transfer to any ship at any time in the huge universe? Sounds naff.
Travel for hours to join a ship? Sounds naff.
CMDRS just popping in while in a dogfight or in space is just NAFF.

Compromise:
When multicrewing, both parties MUST be in a Station.
The joining player 'Logs out' of his ship and gets a loading/cut scene showing a journey (i.e. leaving, jumping and arriving at the receiving ship's station. (takes 30 - 60 secs)
The receiving ship gets a message "Crew Member Inbound" during this.
The joining player arrives on the receiving ship and the receiver gets a message stating "Crew Member on board".
The multicrewed ship can then go and have wild space adventures.

This would keep the immersion and give a feeling of game play continuity while allowing fast joining with friends that FD wants with minimal disruption to both parties.
It doesn't fix the whole vast distance crossed in next to no time issue, but can't have everything.
S.Ross.

 

[ZeroAi]

Implementing a co-op system that requires ALL players to "long" travel to the same place in-game (regardless of the mode) in order to take part in co-op would be very dumb in my opinion. Most (if not all) online multiplayer games with co-op have a fast travel option, and Elite needs it too imho.

That said, I do respect those who have a very different option than mine

instantly teleported magical unicorn players.

Question for you and those who don't want insta-travel for multicrew: Are you also against the "magically" repairing, restocking, and refueling ships in the game now? Today you can dock with nearly no health, ammo, or fuel and in under 10 seconds it can all "magically" be fixed lol!

Anyone who's ever taken their car in for some repair work knows how laughable that is!!!

Or even worse, are you against in-game re-incarnation? Like how you're "magically" re-incarnated hundreds of light years away after you die? If you're looking for realism then that is laughable too!

Now, I will concede it would be very cool if Frontier added "realism" servers for those of you who seem to want everything to be super realistic and happen in real time. Other games have options like this, although I've never been interested in them myself.

I'd also be fine if Multi-crew co-op insta-travel was limited to private groups, or some new type of "PvE" only servers.

And while we're at it, can I get the option to choose which of my ships I spawn in when I launch the game too? Fine if that only works in PG and Solo so as not to upset the Open + Realism crowd. Also ok if I can only choose those ships that I could have traveled to by commercial passenger liner when I was offline, just let me decide when I boot up the game.

In the end, requiring ALL owners of the game to "long travel" to the same place in ALL modes to take part in this new co-op option (multi-crew) would be a very bad idea, and I hope Frontier doesn't limit what could be a fun new feature by not allowing fast travel in ANY mode.

 

[Toumal]

No one, not ONE of the people clamouring about the teleportation/telepresence for multicrew has explained to me why you can instantly respawn at a station after death.

All these magical teleporting players. They should be stuck in a emergency pod for a few weeks until someone else rescues them. And if they die out in the void, tough luck, might have to wait a couple hundred million years. Real time, of course. For realism.

 

[bitstorm]

The solution is simple:
Rewards and punishments stick.

So that anyone joining crew can be "griefed" in reverse?

 

[Hydrino]

No one, not ONE of the people clamouring about the teleportation/telepresence for multicrew has explained to me why you can instantly respawn at a station after death.

All these magical teleporting players. They should be stuck in a emergency pod for a few weeks until someone else rescues them. And if they die out in the void, tough luck, might have to wait a couple hundred million years. Real time, of course. For realism.

I approve this ^^^ post.

Not only should they be in a pod but when scooped, they should be able to be sold into slavery at the nearest black market.

I've read a lot about "consistency" lately, to avoid the term "realism". But there is a heck of a lot that is not consistent in this game. That includes travel times in various modes to various places and other short-cuts to time-costing things.

 

[Von Elsner]

I approve this ^^^ post.

Not only should they be in a pod but when scooped, they should be able to be sold into slavery at the nearest black market.

I've read a lot about "consistency" lately, to avoid the term "realism". But there is a heck of a lot that is not consistent in this game. That includes travel times in various modes to various places and other short-cuts to time-costing things.

Race to the bottom argument.