3.0 offers absolutely no protection against big player ships griefing small player ships

Quoting my post from last week...

Predictions for threads that will start popping up next week:

  • Elite Dangerous is dying because of 3.0
  • Beyond is still a grind
  • Griefers find a way to bypass the new C&P system
  • This patch is the final straw - I quit
  • Nerf (something in 3.0)!
  • 3.1 will be a total fail
 
We aren't talking about station rammers though - this event OP talks about allegedly happened at a Nav Beacon.

Also - this was allegedly a single ship doing the ramming - did you even read the thread btw? :)

Of course, if you're surrounded by a wing of rammers, you alter your tactics to suit - getting out of there is a decent tactic in that regard.

And as for station ramming - I'm still of the opinion that flying less than 100m/s is still a good idea. Pilots should take responsibility for themselves and their own safety, and the game shouldn't be wrapping everyone up in cotton wool all the time.

Fundamentally it doesn't change anything.
Ramming was a favorite tool in the past and it still is. End of story basically.

The new C&P System is off to a very bad start, since it offers way too many loopholes. Cherry on the cake? All criminals got Billions of "Amnesty gifts".
The exact Player types that have exploited, cheated and abused all existing loopholes in the past, for years.
Sounds all too familiar? It should. Even new Players realizing that within a Day after V3.0 release isn't what was needed to build trust in the new C&P System.

It's back to the drawing board... fast. Once again. Alternatively, see the same trends of the past years continue.
Looking forward to the C&P hotfixes in V3.0.01 (not holding my breath actually)
 
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* Always try to keep awareness of your sensor dislpay for hollow signatures, which represent other Commanders, and never ignore them.
* Always switch to a flight pattern that allows you to at least see how other Commanders' ships are flying relative to you.

Sandy, these 'Stranger Danger's tips should be basic situational awareness skills for all Commanders. Could Adam do a tutorial on this subject? Possibly in the style of an early 80s UK public information film?

But seriously, in crowded CG systems, my safety routine of cycling through all contacts and watching whether the CMDRs are approaching an intercept course is strained by the sheer number of contacts (more CMDRs in session for longer = more NPCs). Could we please have a "Filter Pilots Federation" toggle/hold action, to reduce clutter?

An expanded scanner "radar operator's" view, with contact category filtering, and the ability to do all-aspect full scans and tag high threats for the Helm's scanner would be a useful role for multicrew, too.
 
Hello Commanders!

For the record, ramming is something we're still looking at, along with combat logging. Regardless though, I would offer all Commanders this advice:

* Always try to keep awareness of your sensor dislpay for hollow signatures, which represent other Commanders, and never ignore them.
* Always switch to a flight pattern that allows you to at least see how other Commanders' ships are flying relative to you.
* Immediately check power and power distribution management to ensure your vessel is combat/escape capable when other ships are present.
* Always keep an eye on Comms chatter and info panel messages when other ships are present.
* Treat proximity by any vessel as suspsicious.
* Always have a hyperspace route plotted.

You forgot to say *Always keep your towel handy
 
Doesn't matter how fast it is, once set on a fast collision course, the target ship merely has to jink up, down, left, or right by a few metres and that Clippers going to be hurtling past them with no way of correcting their trajectory in time to collide.

sure.

but you don't need to kamikaze ram either, and not from distance. just closing in on the target at controlled speed, optionally boosting immediately before impact ... you can wear down any slower ship like that unless ... it jumps or fights back.

in a combat scenario ramming an experienced pilot in almost any ship is actually quite hard (most video evidence just shows lack of evading skill or awareness) but then it may take just one fortunate hit ....
 

Goose4291

Banned
As per the features of 3.0:



So what about new players that get griefed by players in big ships? They just get away with it?

My friend just got rammed to death in his Cobra by an Imp Clipper, and now he doesn't even have enough money for his rebuy. So much for "improved" crime and punishment.

What a total loophole.

Obey_Station_Speed_Limits.jpg
 
sure.

but you don't need to kamikaze ram either, and not from distance. just closing in on the target at controlled speed, optionally boosting immediately before impact ... you can wear down any slower ship like that unless ... it jumps or fights back.

in a combat scenario ramming an experienced pilot in almost any ship is actually quite hard (most video evidence just shows lack of evading skill or awareness) but then it may take just one fortunate hit ....

If some other ship is booping into my ship, if I haven't then figured out they're up to no good, I may as well just press Self Destruct, because that's what I deserve for being naive.

Seriously - if it gets to the point where some other player is booping their ship into yours - fast or slow - it's time to either dodge, or Get Out Of Dodge.
 
Hello Commanders!

For the record, ramming is something we're still looking at, along with combat logging. Regardless though, I would offer all Commanders this advice:

* Always try to keep awareness of your sensor dislpay for hollow signatures, which represent other Commanders, and never ignore them.
* Always switch to a flight pattern that allows you to at least see how other Commanders' ships are flying relative to you.
* Immediately check power and power distribution management to ensure your vessel is combat/escape capable when other ships are present.
* Always keep an eye on Comms chatter and info panel messages when other ships are present.
* Treat proximity by any vessel as suspsicious.
* Always have a hyperspace route plotted.


Sandro has just told everyone to git gud!

You read it here first!!!

P.S. It works, though. I lost my C-ranked Viper to being jumped by a guy in an A-ranked Python in Ngaliba (then an Anarchy), at the Nav Beacon, when I was just a few days into the game, in Feb 2015.

I blamed myself, did basically exactly what Sandro just spelled out, paid attention to my surroundings, and worked my way up to my first 1.3 billion, 100% legit, 100% in Open, without ever once being successfully jumped again.
 
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If some other ship is booping into my ship, if I haven't then figured out they're up to no good, I may as well just press Self Destruct, because that's what I deserve for being naive.

Seriously - if it gets to the point where some other player is booping their ship into yours - fast or slow - it's time to either dodge, or Get Out Of Dodge.

i'm a bit lost.

the victim (op's friend) is a newb, that much was clear.

ramming has been long known way of noobs killing noobs.

ramming as a technique has it's obvious limitations, it's actually an opportunity shot, but speed is an advantage (both in hitting and evading).

a clipper is still faster than a cobra, and an engineered one is ridiculously faster, which was my point.

not sure what your point is at this point :)
 
There's no tutorial on getting rammed. If the guy was new to the game, I doubt that he even figured out what was happening, let alone had the skills to get out the way. I'm sure that he learnt a lot from this incident, like we all did the first time we got killed by another commander, but at least we knew that we were under attack, so you should have some sympathy.

I don't see it as any reason to cry though, when you can fly a basic Sidewinder to a high RES and get enough credits for a decent Cobra in a couple of hours, just by tagging a few NPCs. That's much more fun than scanning beacons as well.
 
...thats why i hate solo/group, people going there to hide...

Tell us how you really feel?

Like, do you also hate people who avoid rush hour traffic, root canals, and walking on broken glass barefoot?

Truly not sure why anyone would hate folks just trying to have fun and avoid greifers

He went to a beacon to scan it for a mission, and the clipper was waiting there for players to show up. He kept ramming him out of position so he couldn't scan it, and eventually blew him up.

When you play in open you can't choose who you play with - just like any online game their is going to be some greifers.

You can be going 0 m/s and still be rammed to death.

Best thing you can tell your friend if they still have any desire to play left is to never play in Open. They'll be happier for it. Elite offers zero incentives, only punishments, for playing with other people.

At least until they feel like they want to take on random griefers

The best advice that you can give your friend is

2. Always be aware of who's in your instance & what they are up to. If any player makes any move towards your ship then you either fight or flee.

Good advice Doc - if you see another CMDR in your instance, make sure you are aware of their intentions and have an exit strategy ready if they attack. If you dont fly in open with "ctrl B", then always check your radar for that hollow square - or triangle.

Priceless advice for playing in open

Hello Commander Susanna!

Death by by ramming is clearly still the crime of murder. It simply does not get it's value inflated by Notoriety. The new crime system should not really be, in any way, more lenient, other than the ability to switch ships.

Thanks for clearing that up Sandro!
 
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As per the features of 3.0:



So what about new players that get griefed by players in big ships? They just get away with it?

My friend just got rammed to death in his Cobra by an Imp Clipper, and now he doesn't even have enough money for his rebuy. So much for "improved" crime and punishment.

What a total loophole.

Feel bad that this happened. My advice for your friend, is to keep playing in open even if he or she is back in a sidewinder, watch for hollow pips and assume everyone is dangerous at all times. Got to stay moving or be on the look out if needing to come to a full stop. Use the smaller ships agility and in many cases speed.

The first time I had enough for a Python, I went out uninsured for a test run. What's the worst that can happen? You guessed it. Back to a sidewinder. Didn't give up though, so recommend your friend does the same.
 
Nope. Victim was in a Cobra. That is not a ship that a new player flies. If you've got to a Cobra without learning basic self-awareness, then you shouldn't complain if you lose said ship. :)

i started playing on launch, when cash was a lot harder to get by. got my eagle, viper and cobra pretty much in the first week. by then i was still a newbie by all accounts. those were my learning ships, actually, and i stayed quite a while with them before going for a vulture.

nowadays you can have a conda in a week. and the skies are stock full with noob cutters. ship says little about skill.

the victim was obviously a noob because he let himself get repeatedly rammed at nav beacon, to death. there is no doubt about that. you may have strong feelings about whether he should be complaining or not, i have no opinion in that regard. the fact is that he did and this highlights a weak spot (oh wonder!) in the c&p system (which is some kind of mantra many expected to fix poverty and climate change or sumthin).
 
i started playing on launch, when cash was a lot harder to get by. got my eagle, viper and cobra pretty much in the first week. by then i was still a newbie by all accounts. those were my learning ships, actually, and i stayed quite a while with them before going for a vulture.

nowadays you can have a conda in a week. and the skies are stock full with noob cutters. ship says little about skill.

the victim was obviously a noob because he let himself get repeatedly rammed at nav beacon, to death. there is no doubt about that. you may have strong feelings about whether he should be complaining or not, i have no opinion in that regard. the fact is that he did and this highlights a weak spot (oh wonder!) in the c&p system (which is some kind of mantra many expected to fix poverty and climate change or sumthin).

Or the noob takes it as a learning experience and now they have become wiser for the next time something like that happens.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Hello Commanders!

For the record, ramming is something we're still looking at, along with combat logging. Regardless though, I would offer all Commanders this advice:

* Always try to keep awareness of your sensor dislpay for hollow signatures, which represent other Commanders, and never ignore them.
* Always switch to a flight pattern that allows you to at least see how other Commanders' ships are flying relative to you.
* Immediately check power and power distribution management to ensure your vessel is combat/escape capable when other ships are present.
* Always keep an eye on Comms chatter and info panel messages when other ships are present.
* Treat proximity by any vessel as suspsicious.
* Always have a hyperspace route plotted.

So, essentially, git gud! :D
 
*Sigh* Clipper-flying rammers give us respectable Clipper pilots a bad name. :x

Just to reassure the OP and your friend: We're not all like that. [smile]

o7
 
Or the noob takes it as a learning experience and now they have become wiser for the next time something like that happens.

that would be the best course of action indeed :D

some games have newbie protection, elite hasn't, that's how it is. in compensation the loss is really low (except cargo/data) and there are several safety cushions to not get them stranded on day one.

the interesting issue here is that the changes to c&p might have the side effect of making ganking small ships a lot more appealing, maybe even the preferred passtime for griefers, which may be a relief for those noob condas and cutters, but spells tough times for players just starting. ironically, this might breed a thinner but harder generation of new cmdrs :D
 
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