You can perform the same action as trackir and oculus rift with mouse look or a mapped coolie hat. A third person view allows you to see way more. There's no point really in drifting down this road because then we'll be in the realms of HOTAS provides an advantage over a mouse etc etc etc.
3rd person view.. Implementaion
- Thread starter Microblitz
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You can perform the same action as trackir and oculus rift with mouse look or a mapped coolie hat. A third person view allows you to see way more. There's no point really in drifting down this road because then we'll be in the realms of HOTAS provides an advantage over a mouse etc etc etc.
That was not ten mechanics, but anyway. Let's look at those for a starter.
-The lakons are probably the ship you refer to? Only one of them bears an "explorer" badge: the asp. After that, you can explore with pretty much everything that has more than just a decent jump range. That excludes the Type 7, for instance. Too bad, the view inside that ship is one of the best. Following your logic, that mechanic is flawed already. But I suspect the designers have not done that with what you have in mind.
-Dual heat sinks in PvP, let's see. Heat management when using heavily heat inducing weaponry? Engaging hyperdrive while mass locked and still be able to fight/maneuver during the wait? Oooh you meant using silent mode? See below.
-Have you ever succeeded at destroying a subsystem? In beta, I did that a few times. But now, it seems the hull goes down faster. But I'm no ace, maybe you do that on daily basis. Nonetheless, you are persisting in giving external camera view the same role as a radar. Again, me, my radar and my trackIR VS you and whatever external view you want: I win 100% of the runs. And Maybe I'm not as good as you. But I'll win anyway. That said, if we both can use the exact same features, it nulifies the advantage debate, doesn't it?
-Why is there a silent mode indeed. A question that is more and more spammed those days. To... not be visible on radar? Because external view or not, you are still physically visible. Do you actually use that in combat? Against serious pilots? Kuddos, then, for making it harder on yourself. I know for a fact that I never had any trouble finding a player shooting at me in silent mode, for the very few times it happened in beta.
That was four mechanics, not ten, that had nothing to fear from external view. As for the last part: "something that will make the game even more shallow". Those are your words. And you are the one refusing an additional feature. Thus restricting the game. You want an absolutely not shallow sim like experience? Try DCS, if you have not already. Only igniting the A10c engines represents more knowledge and complexity than ED in its whole. Shockingly enough, it does have loads of external view options. But at this point, we will repeat ourselves over and over. I guess we'll never agree.
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I think a simple way to do it and make everyone happy is to disable 3rd person, ie switch automatically back to 1st person, when hardpoints are deployed. At the same time I think they would have to change how the discovery scanner works so that it doesn't require hardpoints to be deployed. 3rd person view would be a boon to explorers especially, and let's be honest it's a buff that I think that profession could use.
Your hands are busy shooting, boosting, constantly using thrusters, including lateral ones, shifting power and using FAoff. You can do all that and gaze around with trackIR/Oculus. Regular mouse/joystick player - can't. That's called a decisive advantage when two players of similar skills meet. You brought up the point that field of view is an advantage. It is. And various gadgets already provide that advantage - trackIR/Oculus/and many more. Yet you can live with one, but can't live with another.
Bottom line is - it's selfish (and kind of strange to be honest) to deny adjustable external view as there are countless ways fighters/explorers can use it to enjoy the game and create wonderful videos about their experiences, attracting more players to the fold..
i was just giving you some examples to try and make you think a bit deeper.
i am not going tell you every little thing that would change whit a third person view, i barely got the skills myself to calculate all the effects of adding a 3rd person view, i said 10 but i could probably figure out more.
i am about to go to bed now, i am really tired and i don't want to spend all night trying to make you reach deeper thinking.
maybe tomorrow if you like i could demonstrate a few things,
we can take a match in game and i can demonstrate dual heatsinks, and no it does not involve silent running.
i am not going tell you every little thing that would change whit a third person view, i barely got the skills myself to calculate all the effects of adding a 3rd person view, i said 10 but i could probably figure out more.
i am about to go to bed now, i am really tired and i don't want to spend all night trying to make you reach deeper thinking.
maybe tomorrow if you like i could demonstrate a few things,
we can take a match in game and i can demonstrate dual heatsinks, and no it does not involve silent running.
So sorry my thoughts are not deep enough for you, but thanks for trying anyway. 
Yes, go to sleep, you are really in need of some.
Yes, go to sleep, you are really in need of some.
Drones for me (linked suggestion thread here).
One of the drawbacks of real-time 3P views is that the ship's viewport visibility is a factor in their combat effectiveness. To allow a wider POV than the canopy offers would remove that layer of strategy and unbalance things. People saying that such a view would not affect gameplay are either
One of the drawbacks of real-time 3P views is that the ship's viewport visibility is a factor in their combat effectiveness. To allow a wider POV than the canopy offers would remove that layer of strategy and unbalance things. People saying that such a view would not affect gameplay are either
- psychic, or
- lying to get what they want.
1-no
2-and no.
Could it be, for the bazillionth time, that we want what almost every other game in the genre and beyond treats like the most basic, normal feature that could be? Without seeing it as a cheating device or whatever?
Then go play those games? No offense but not every game needs to be a run of the mill watered down game. Games that offer these so called basic features are basic games made for basic people.
There are more disadvantages though, I really don't fancy trying to fly the thing properly in a third person view and changing in and out all the time will just make you lose track of where everything is. It's much harder to aim, particularly if there are no displays or HUDs visible. The first thing I do in any game which gives me a choice between first and third person views is switch to the first person view because I can see what I'm doing much more precisely.
As for being able to only see what you can see through the cockpit window, that's rather daft for a third millenium spacecraft anyway.
It's a feature I'd really like to see, you could get much better views that way anyway. For those who still think that it breaks immersion you could say that it's a reconstruction from the recorded sensor data. If that was how we got an external view then I would be 100% happy, I've no need for a live one.
Enough with the go play those games already. I'm here, and I intend to stay and give my opinion. Watered down games I don't think so. Go on, download DCS. Two modules comes for free with it. Come back to me when you managed to actually take off. I'll be nice, do that with the Su25. It's only AFM, with simplified avionics.
Just stop using that argument to look down on external views, it's not working.
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"Go play those games" - always a poor response to a suggestion someone doesn't like, it's trying to dismiss rather than answer the question. Adding such a view is not making it a watered down, run of the mill game and it's not only basic games that have it.
Would a 3rd person view that was just a little too awkward for combat not be ok? It wouldnt have a reticule etc, and maybe little things like it didnt "follow" your ships rotations, it would look at the center of your ship but its position would be absolute and fixed unless you manualy pivot the camera around. This would make 3rd person dog fighting very diffuclt. And as far as popping out to "check" where the other ships are. I mean we already can get good info based on our scanner, and maybe even just making the camera rotation kinda "sluggish" would help make it somewhat impractical for combat situations. In terms of immersion...well we already have a "gamey" perspective when going into outfitting.
I presume you mean all those other twitch-based 3D space sims that are also multiplayer, online, and have equally good VR/head tracking support. To be fair, that sounds like a genre I'd be interested in, and from your phrasing, there must be a lot of competitors available. I would like to try some of the other games in the genre, and evaluate the pros and cons of external views by doing so. What titles would you recommend?
Yep. External cameras, being 3rd person or free (the latest being the one most people want I think) should indeed be completely stripped off any hud info.
I'm not sure how much of an advantage would it be? We already have a 3D sensor showing us the position of our target so what would be the difference really?
Because of double heat sinks, obviously!
Oh, and silent running. Because no one can tell where the shots/lasers are coming from. Shh. And because they made wider windows for Lakon. So, you have to be in one to call yourself the Explorer. And finally, the sensors: no one will run for repair shop with sensors down, if external view is introduced. Who cares what's behind you anyway, right? External view breaks everything! It allows you to see 360, above, below and behind.The depth of thought impresses..
Ya, give you the external view that allows you to only rotate around your ship to view it in all it's glory. You can't control your ship or operate functions. I can dig that. But, I know the only reason people want a third person view is so they can track their opponents easier. What other reason is there for it? There's a reason why FPS games don't use a third person view, it gives a clear advantage to those who play in third person over those who play in first person.
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Probably better to compare it with combat flight simulators. The reason is to admire the view, take impressive screenshots, perhaps make some good videos (the playback method would be best for all of those anyway, plus it makes the whole advantage thing academic). Tracking opponents isn't hard, the scanner is pretty intuitive (and I'm sure that's not because I've been playing Elite since 1984), more so than having to look around you then get your ship aligned with where you are looking. Both are found in FPS games as far as I'm aware (I've not played many).
The only reason I want an exterior camera is to admire the view. It's all I ever used it for in FE2 and FFE (it made combat harder, not easier anyway). I've always felt that people asking for one want it for the same reason. Since that's the only reason I want one then I positively don't want anything like a HUD getting in the way of the view.
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