Powerplay 5C (Fifth Column) strikes Felicia Winters. Frontier needs to act.

I think that at some point we almost help Frontier Development to ignore us. We don't really have some "unitary" proposal, all the Powers are mostly too busy exploiting the actual faulty game mechanics to get back to each other, and somehow the status quo is maintained.

So a smart move should be to first of all find something we all can agree on, and then show it to FDev with the request to be reasonably fast to do that.

Because we're the middle child in here, we're basically invisible, and honestly I'm sick and tired to be. We had a Focused Feedback. We did great back then. I think we can do that again, by our own.
I'm ready for the call boss. In the mean-time I'll gently remind FD what they have forgotten and channel my inner Ahab as I chase them about:

 
That's the key point here. And you can't really deal with it without making it impossible for a power to make mistakes, making the gameplay essentially meaningless grindfest, more so than it is today. TBH, I don't see any viable solution here.
I'm not sure that's true. If all actions taken for a power benefit the power, but some are considerably more beneficial than others, then:
- a power can still collectively make a mistake by putting its effort into a low-return activity (and with enough strategic depth it might not be obvious what the high-return activities were every time because they depend on what everyone else does) and therefore get out-competed by another power
- but a 5C group putting effort into a low-return activity is still providing a minor return to the power, and not stopping any of the power's real players from doing anything more effective
It would need a much bigger rewrite than the Focused Feedback plans to get to that, though.

Consider the infest/incursion/repair mechanic for Thargoids. You can't make the situation worse by shooting at Thargoids - but if you're not sufficiently coordinated then no Thargoid group is attacked enough and you lose everything. There's no way to 5C humanity by attacking the wrong Thargoids, though.
 
The only way to avoid the "grind" is the Open Only environment, and not just for Powerplay, for anything.

5C is a totally different matter. It's all about the rules. I did a proposal, did you read that? Damn, I should put it in my forum signature probably. :p
 
Please dont post your proposal again.

Your proposal is just a regurgitation of past proposals that have been discussed over-and-over. You dont even realize the impact of the changes you are proposing. Some of your suggestions cause damage to the PP game, and even worse, the damage is not equally applied between the existing powers.

If you want to to discuss your proposal again. Put it in it own post, but please do not spam this thread with it again.
 
How precisely? I'm just asking. I just wish to start a serious talk about the actual mechanics and how to improve them. Can we all do that once in a time?

Of course any other idea is welcome, isn't this a thread about how to counter 5C activity?
 
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Considering the mess of last focused feedback I don't think they're never gonna make Open Play matter more than private or solo, I think we should focus to have some hot-fixes as soon as possible, to make at least it work and make 5C useless.

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And personally I proposed many ways to fix Powerplay as it is right now, without Open Only, at least to take some time and counter 5C, too bad the devs don't care.
Agreed. To me it's one of the most sick game designs I've ever came across and I'm playing computer games since 1986 including (later of course) lots of MMOs. The relative new voting mechanic is nothing but a pathetic bandaid at best.
 
IMHO, The whole game should be open only.

i dont have a problem with 5C... i see it as a legitimate role playing game mechanic / tactic, that any power can do or stop (if open only happens).
You'll never get a lot of agreement on "Open Only" for the entire game. I play in open, and yet there are times I prefer the Solo option when attempting to visit an engineer or Founders World. It's my personal preference. It's the preference of lots of players as well. I've often recommended it to new players for the first few weeks of play who don't want to end up in the roll of victim to those who enjoy clubbing baby seals. They requested it and that's why it was given as an option on the main menu.

However, PP is different. That fact that it essentially pits players against players is why it NEEDS to be Open only, as well as cross-platform.

BTW, just had a thought: since the CQC server isn't being used a whole lot, why not dump CQC and change it to power play ONLY?
 
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Frontier won't get involved in such. It's not that they don't care. They set up the system and let it run. Whoever wins, wins. They are not going to get involved in power struggles. It's like praying for a nice sunny day for a picnic and a farmer praying for rain. The system was set up and it is going to work according to the rules that are in place. If it doesn't rain, that doesn't mean that the one who set it up doesn't care about the crops, it simply means that he/she/it/they are not going to get involved other than setting up the system.

So, no. FD should not get involved. You were told not to haul this whatever it is. They were not told not to haul it. Only the people working for Winters was told this. The 5C are opponents and are going to do whatever they can to defeat you. Why should FD takes sides? That's favoritism and that will kill a game very quickly.
 
5c is the result of a totally screwed game design and never should be possible in the first place. It leads to such nonsense of players defecting their power for the only purpose of doing some destruction to an opposing power with a mechanism that originally was supposed to bring expansion and prosperity. This game design is as clever as a car that is sold with a permanent locked handbrake. It's astonishing that some people actually like this nonsense and even calling it 'roleplaying'. In my book it's as anti-roleplaying as it possibly could be. [wacko]

Somehow the devs slowly seem to understand this as the counter votes could suggest. Though this bandaid looks as helpless as the whole construct. [down]
 
Frontier won't get involved in such. It's not that they don't care. They set up the system and let it run. Whoever wins, wins. They are not going to get involved in power struggles. It's like praying for a nice sunny day for a picnic and a farmer praying for rain. The system was set up and it is going to work according to the rules that are in place. If it doesn't rain, that doesn't mean that the one who set it up doesn't care about the crops, it simply means that he/she/it/they are not going to get involved other than setting up the system.

So, no. FD should not get involved. You were told not to haul this whatever it is. They were not told not to haul it. Only the people working for Winters was told this. The 5C are opponents and are going to do whatever they can to defeat you. Why should FD takes sides? That's favoritism and that will kill a game very quickly.
FD delivered a flawed and easily exploitable system, and was incomplete to add insult to injury. Its insane to legitimize 5C as opponents when its obvious how they exploit the gaping holes FD left open in PP design. Its not favoritism to ask FD to actually put some effort into a PP update that eliminates or drastically mitigates the impact of 5C.
 
Ok so you let's take it this way: does anybody here think that whoever thinked about Powerplay had 5C, hauling bots and everything wrong in this game in mind?

I don't think so.

Proof is that our leaderships had really a hard time trying to explain that to the Developers. Yeah, it's true. Apparently the Developers do not know Powerplay as well as players. Ask your leaders.

So first of all, a fact: 5C (and bots) were never meant as a feature. They are a mistake, because the Devs were so naive they couldn't even imagine how low their players could go to win.

So: the best thing to do for any of us is just to stop playing. The actual 5C force, even if they feel justified by whatever reason, will have the only result to have killed Powerplay for good. They will shout for their victory in an empty hall. That's the only way to win against 5C that FDev gave to us: the passive aggressive way.

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Funny thing: why could anybody claim that 5C is a feature? Is It maybe a way to justify their behaviour? Same goes for whoever wanna keep the actual rules...

At least you should be more subtle to defend the status quo.
 
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Ok so you let's take it this way: does anybody here think that whoever thinked about Powerplay had 5C, hauling bots and everything wrong in this game in mind?

I don't think so.

Proof is that our leaderships had really a hard time trying to explain that to the Developers. Yeah, it's true. Apparently the Developers do not know Powerplay as well as players. Ask your leaders.

So first of all, a fact: 5C (and bots) were never meant as a feature. They are a mistake, because the Devs were so naive they couldn't even imagine how low their players could go to win.

So: the best thing to do for any of us is just to stop playing. The actual 5C force, even if they feel justified by whatever reason, will have the only result to have killed Powerplay for good. They will shout for their victory in an empty hall. That's the only way to win against 5C that FDev gave to us: the passive aggressive way.

EDIT

Funny thing: why could anybody claim that 5C is a feature? Is It maybe a way to justify their behaviour? Same goes for whoever wanna keep the actual rules...

At least you should be more subtle to defend the status quo.
Do you think the one(s) that created everything had humans smuggling dangerous addictive drugs in mind? So should he/she/they/it get involved to stop this nefarious practice? It would have just taken a minor tweak in the genetic structure of the poppy or the coca plant to make the manufacture of heroin and/or cocaine with all it'd deadly affects impossible. I'm sorry, there is going to be exploiters everywhere. FD has to choose its fights. I'm not sure this one would be worth fighting. It doesn't intentionally violate the laws of physics, such as with combat logging.

Don't get me wrong. I don't do power play at all. But FD getting involved here could set a precedent that could lead to a very slippery slope.
 
Do you think the one(s) that created everything had humans smuggling dangerous addictive drugs in mind? So should he/she/they/it get involved to stop this nefarious practice? It would have just taken a minor tweak in the genetic structure of the poppy or the coca plant to make the manufacture of heroin and/or cocaine with all it'd deadly affects impossible. I'm sorry, there is going to be exploiters everywhere. FD has to choose its fights. I'm not sure this one would be worth fighting. It doesn't intentionally violate the laws of physics, such as with combat logging.

Don't get me wrong. I don't do power play at all. But FD getting involved here could set a precedent that could lead to a very slippery slope.
Whut?

I think you are mixing up intervention with FD fixing poor design. Its not FD god modding, its not one power asking for previous cycles 5C to be reversed- its the playerbase asking for PP to have some love so people can play fairly.
 
Ok first of all: what are you even talking about with the chemical thing. I only hope that's not your field of competence because... Oh god, that was so dumb in so many ways. Do you even know genetics and/or chemistry or you just looked for some fancy reference to whatever reason at all? Did you get a master degree in the "Real Life University"? Damn.

Anyway, as for the genetics/chemistry mess, you are doing the same with Powerplay, because for your personal admission you don't do Powerplay: you have no clue what you're talking about and you are saying absurd things.

My god, you really compared something that came out of evolution first then human selection with something like Powerplay, which was designed as a game. Really: what the actual frack.

A game is designed to be the less exploitable possible, especially a competitive one. In the actual Powerplay the only way to attack others is 5C. Which wasn't intended. So the game was bad designed.

Is FDev never gonna fix that properly? Of course. To manager player interactions is HARD, and FDev basically chose not to, because it's easier to pat explorers in the back, or ensure a safe escape route (pvt/solo) to anybody. Who cares if pvt/solo are exploited to cheat. I'm really pessimistic about FDev doing anything by their own about that. They probably think their main customer is the "explorer", too bad they do not understand that the vast majority of their possible customers stop to play because the game seems empty and most of their former players stopped playing because of all the cheating.

Really dude: it's just as you're trying to talk about Rocket Science with some NASA guys, of course your contribution is hard to be contextualised.
 
Whut?

I think you are mixing up intervention with FD fixing poor design. Its not FD god modding, its not one power asking for previous cycles 5C to be reversed- its the playerbase asking for PP to have some love so people can play fairly.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you meant FD should punish 5C for doing what they are doing. They want to change game design, that's fine. No problem.

Ok first of all: what are you even talking about with the chemical thing. I only hope that's not your field of competence because... Oh god, that was so dumb in so many ways. Do you even know genetics and/or chemistry or you just looked for some fancy reference to whatever reason at all? Did you get a master degree in the "Real Life University"? Damn.

Anyway, as for the genetics/chemistry mess, you are doing the same with Powerplay, because for your personal admission you don't do Powerplay: you have no clue what you're talking about and you are saying absurd things.

My god, you really compared something that came out of evolution first then human selection with something like Powerplay, which was designed as a game. Really: what the actual frack.

A game is designed to be the less exploitable possible, especially a competitive one. In the actual Powerplay the only way to attack others is 5C. Which wasn't intended. So the game was bad designed.

Is FDev never gonna fix that properly? Of course. To manager player interactions is HARD, and FDev basically chose not to, because it's easier to pat explorers in the back, or ensure a safe escape route (pvt/solo) to anybody. Who cares if pvt/solo are exploited to cheat. I'm really pessimistic about FDev doing anything by their own about that. They probably think their main customer is the "explorer", too bad they do not understand that the vast majority of their possible customers stop to play because the game seems empty and most of their former players stopped playing because of all the cheating.

Really dude: it's just as you're trying to talk about Rocket Science with some NASA guys, of course your contribution is hard to be contextualised.
I do know something about genetics. I know, for example that we are only about 1% or 2% smarter than chimps. And a race that was 1% or 2% smarter than us would seem like gods. I do know that it doesn't take much manipulation of something at the genetic level to change its properties.

How do you know we weren't designed as entertainment for a vastly superior species? I can't prove we were. But on the other hand, you can't prove we weren't.

Managing player interactions is hard? I don't think you realize how hard it is. Unless you don't care about driving players away. I don't think FD chose not to because they wanted to take an easier road. I think they looked at it and decided that that was a fight they couldn't win. And cheating? Exploiting the Power Play system isn't cheating. Combat logging is cheating because it couldn't happen in real life. But gaming the Power Play system could definitely happen in real life.

But if they want to fix Power Play where the behavior in the original post is impossible, fine. I won't say boo. But people will always find some other way of exploiting the system for their own ends.

And I am NOT a dude. Dudette, lady, even girl. But I definitely don't have the equipment to be a dude.
 
Well you should be a hell of a genetist to say that, or more likely someone who thinks that understood the theory, but really didn't. And I will not try to talk about such funny theories, because it would be like to talk about religion or faith: I simply do not care. Oh just for your knowledge: most of the plants we develop narcotics from evolved that way as a form of defence against erbivores: they basically give them bad stomacache to them, so they can't be eaten too much (even if many animals consume them anyway specifically for those effects, like jaguars in south-america usually eat coke-leaves). Or maybe they were designed like that by god, or aliens or something else. I think I'll stick with the scientific way, it's what made possible for us to look laughable exposing funny theories to unknown people in the internet, so at least that works.

But: back to powerplay!

Nobody never claimed to be able to change people behaviour about that. Or even punish them (only exception are bots, which should be banned). We're all talking about how to change rules to make such a behaviour simply uneffective, as Rubbernuke already said and I proposed in the last three pages of the thread. People suck. But when people that suck can break the game the problem is in the rules. A game, to be funny, should be fair and should be exploit-proof (as much as possible, and Powerplay is totally exploitable).

So: it's not just that you don't know the game mechanics, you even didn't read the thread, you just arrived here, gave your opinion without even knowing the basics of what you wanted to talk about AND what was told before about that. Or maybe you just didn't understand that because that needed some specific knowledge of what you wanted to talk about.

Like genetics, or chemistry, or evolution, in our specific case.

Not cool, dudette, not cool.

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I really hope you are not just 1-2% smarter than a chimp, considering that a chimp is said to have the intelligence of a 4-5 y/o kid. I will help you with that: the right concept is that human beings and chimpazees share approximately the 98% of their genes. Which is only normal, considering we are technically apes. You'd be astonished to notice how that 2% can make a difference. Like: relativity theory difference, or surgery, architecture, poetry, art. Really. 2% smarter. A person with a 102 iq is 2% smarter than a person with a 100 iq. Or maybe you know some crazy smart chimps.
 
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PS Just for your knowledge: I was in the top 5-ish (can't remember well) during the Shattered Prism operation. Always in Open. Nobody caught basking. Such a shame.
So, you were involved in 5c? Good to know. Kinda hypocritical of you here, wouldn't you say?
 
I'd like to withdraw my objection and suggest Frontier permanently ban any account using automated scripts. I just did some research and it seems by bot, we are talking about running scripts. That is not cool and needs to be shut down and the guilty accounts banned permanently by IP.
 
So, you were involved in 5c? Good to know. Kinda hypocritical of you here, wouldn't you say?
Oh wow you are trying to do the same assumptions that I did only because I told you I undermined during the Shattered Prism operation, too bad you do not understand that what's suspicious is that you mentioned Shattered Prism, which basically told everybody that you as a Power feel somehow justified about this situation because you thought that Shattered Prism was a 5C operation, which was not, because that operation changed on route because of the overfortifying. This one was a straight on 5C operation, the last strike after weeks of 5Cing and even the cannibalization of another Power (Torval) which became a "weaponized expansion" Power only to erode CCs to Winters, more than that if I remember well AD did overfortified only the turmoil cycle, not before, and that's another difference with the actual operation (which we should call "5Chattered Decency" from now on).

Again: not as clever as you think you are.
 
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