97% of Viewers (Players?) Want Ship Interiors!

[askavir]

Ok, but even with the SRV & SLF hangars vs closed bulkheads as the only optional modules that need access... you could fit 1 SLF bay and 7 SRV hangars into one cutter - or any combination of those 8 modules, which is going to need different hangar/closed bulkhead configurations. One of the FDev videos that mentioned ship interiors included being able to access and move around in the cargo areas to accomodate gameplay - so drop this concept then? We're back to 'what gameplay'? While 'repair gameplay' seems to come up, if we don't need access to any modules, then it's just hallway panels or cockpit stations - but why, I have an AMFU. Pretty much anything I have seen suggested can be accomodated from just having access to the cockpit - enjoying the view, different work stations (for whatever reason), locker/storage access for suits/tools, leaving the ship (fade to black). I've seen all of the fan videos showing intereiors, but no hint of gameplay - is it just about ambiance then? Getting up and walking the length of the hallway to exit the ship or get in an SRV/SLF?

So we can either have a 100% realistic representation of all modules in every possible combination, or have nothing at all? Nothing in between?

Look you're a nice guy so please don't take it personal that I don't write a more personalized answer, but I had this ship interiors gameplay discussion 500 times in the past and I really no longer care about convincing anyone, as even if someone posted an entire toilet paper roll filled with possible things to do inside spaceships (not just ours but NPC's, and other players ships as well) in 2 and a half hours some other person will pop in asking what's there to do with ship interiors and make the usual smart remarks about going to the loo or making coffee.

Mostly copypasted from past posts, but since this keeps getting asked every couple days anyway...

Ship interiors would allow, among other things:

- EVA from and into other ships (you cannot get inside other ships if they don´t have interiors). This alone provides tons of gameplay opportunities. Pirating, salvaging, rescuing, kidnapping, resupplying, investigating etc etc.
The simple fact you could enter any ship (not just your own) would unlock many gameplay possibilities. You could retrieve the black box to find out what happened to a derelict ship, deliver supplies to ships, recover items from ships, investigate why a stranded ship lost comms, breach a stolen / hijacked ship to recover it or sabotage it, salvage parts from abandoned or wrecked ships, etc etc etc etc.

- Other players seamlessly boarding your ship (or yourself boarding someone else's) to go do some missions / exploration / walkabout / whatever together.

- Salvaging, scaveging parts from inside shipwrecks on the ground (again, you cannot get inside ships without interiors), or sabotage / theft missions from landed ships.

And then there is the immersion value, that will vary for each people of course, but its value is often underrated. For instance, RPG games do not need to have things like day/night cycles, seasonal weathers (or even just weathers), NPC daily routines, etc, none of that provides gameplay on it's own, but all of these make the game world feel much richer and usually enhance your experience while roaming those worlds. Again mileage will vary per person.

I could by now add quite a lot more, but it isn't really worth it is it? After all for years we had the very same discussion about onfoot gameplay, many people screamed and shouted for years there was "nothing to do with space legs", and now it turns out there is actually quite a lot!

In the end FD will keep following their own plan, which by their own reiterated words includes landing on planets and walking on surfaces, stations and ships, and to me that's all that matters.

 

[Ethaidan]

So we can either have a 100% realistic representation of all modules in every possible combination, or have nothing at all? Nothing in between?

Look you're a nice guy so please don't take it personal that I don't write a more personalized answer, but I had this ship interiors gameplay discussion 500 times in the past and I really no longer care about convincing anyone, as even if someone posted an entire toilet paper roll filled with possible things to do inside spaceships (not just ours but NPC's, and other players ships as well) in 2 and a half hours some other person will pop in asking what's there to do with ship interiors and make the usual smart remarks about going to the loo or making coffee.



I could by now add quite a lot more, but it isn't really worth it is it? After all for years we had the very same discussion about onfoot gameplay, many people screamed and shouted for years there was "nothing to do with space legs", and now it turns out there is actually quite a lot!

In the end FD will keep following their own plan, which by their own reiterated words includes landing on planets and walking on surfaces, stations and ships, and to me that's all that matters.

I think we've both been around these forums long enough to suspect that a single model per ship type, with no variation and little semblance to reality, would lead to cringing decibles of forum whinge. I love the idea of planetary legs & space legs, and I'm not against the concept of ship interiors, but I don't see player ship interiors as a priority for expanding long-term gameplay - beyond ambiance/immersion. I really do think time would be better spent on designing a suite NPC ship interiors, not our ship interiors - that's where the better options for gameplay lie (IMO) - EVA, pirating, salvage, rescue, investigating, etc. do not require player ship interiors.

 

[askavir]

I really do think time would be better spent on designing a suite NPC ship interiors, not our ship interiors - that's where the better options for gameplay lie (IMO) - EVA, pirating, salvage, rescue, investigating, etc. do not require player ship interiors.

In terms of gameplay I do agree that NPC ship interiors have the bulk of the potential gameplay value. But the bonus part is that the NPC ships are the same as our own ships, so the same work would cover both NPC ships and our own ships (unless only some of the NPC ships were covered), as long as we don't demand extreme detail and fully dynamic interiors. I also agree that there will be some whine, but that would always happen whatever the outcome

 

[zimms]

Really? So, a trade Cutter with the following optional internal modules: c6 shield, 2x c8 cargo racks, 2x c6 cargo racks, 1 c5 cargo rack, 1 c4 cargo rack, 1 c3 cargo rack, and 1 c1 autodock will have exactly the same interior as multirole Cutter with a c8 prismatic shield, c8 cargo rack, c6 fighter bay, c6 SRV hanger, c6 First class passenger cabin, c5 limpet controller, c5 fuel scoop, c4 refinery, c3 guardian shield re-enforcement, and a c1 DSS? How would that work? In trade cutter, you would have mostly cargo racks, but all of it would need to be accessible (for gameplay?), in the multirole, most of it would also need to be accessible, and separated (private First class cabins). What does a fuel scoop or GSR even look like in the place of cargo racks?

With just a few optional modules as examples... There are three different shield types, across 8 sizes - do they all look exactly the same? Are they accessible? If not, then hallways with panels will do for some parts of interiors. There are 3 different classes passenger cabins in multiple sizes - do they all look the same? Are they accessible (I hope so)? How does the interior change if I replace a c6 first class cabin (that needs a door) with a C6 hull reinforcement package? What does a c6 hull reinforcement even look like in that space formerly occupied by a passenger cabin?

Well yeah, they'd have to create a model for each module. But the combinations of these is irrelevant. The modules need to be within their size constraints and then you can put them in their slots. Isn't that the point of the modular ship design?

 

[Eraden]

Why oh why do the opponents of ship interiors keep dredging up the "all or nothing" argument? Newsflash, FDev doesn't have to flesh all of this out all at once. Nor do they have to map out every cubic centimeter of the ships. If they want to eventually include ship interiors, they could very easily start by just incorporating the basic stuff that doesn't change, such as the bridge, living quarters, common room, SRV bay, etc. These rooms also do not need to be perfectly mapped to the ship. The rooms could be set up as decent approximations and then, later on if FDev wants to, fine tune those interior locations. They can also make these locations accessible by making a few compromises and not having 10 miles of corridors. Hells bells, if they really want to keep with the "space magic" theme, they could even start out by assuming some form of internal gravity. Or, they could set up the game so that these other locations are only accessible, for safety reasons, when the ship is at rest (not accelerating). If they want, they could always include zero G later on when everyone is rocking machines with 10080 graphics cards. There are a whole host of options with regards to how ship interiors could be implemented. Why do people continue to barf out the "all or nothing" argument? Yes, some people might complain if the interiors are not perfectly up to their expectations but then there will always be people like this. I strongly suspect that most of us who want interiors would be tickled pink even with an initial meager offering (the bridge at least).

 

[VR - wickfut]

what's amusing are the posts on reddit with groups of people being amazed that with Odyssey they've suddenly discovered the scale of their ships vs humans while people in VR have had this since day 1 - just stand up in the opening menu hanger and look at how huge your ship is, and the size of that hanger. Also just turn around in the cockpit and go for a little wander around.

People against VR in this game aren't playing it right.

 

[The Roofus]

what's amusing are the posts on reddit with groups of people being amazed that with Odyssey they've suddenly discovered the scale of their ships vs humans while people in VR have had this since day 1 - just stand up in the opening menu hanger and look at how huge your ship is, and the size of that hanger. Also just turn around in the cockpit and go for a little wander around.

People against VR in this game aren't playing it right.

I hate VR and I've always known the ships are large - maybe the people on Reddit are just morons?

Wait what am I saying? They're on Reddit. OF COURSE they're morons.

 

[Andro]

I hate VR and I've always known the ships are large - maybe the people on Reddit are just morons?

Wait what am I saying? They're on Reddit. OF COURSE they're morons.

Most of us are, yes. Everyone is simultaneously an expert on any topic but will upvote the most dumb, nonsensical, and misleading things.

 

[Chaparral]

Wasn't there some kind of "outcry" for orrery maps as well?

Not a ton of gameplay value out of those, but dev resources went to making them for - someone.

You'd have to have a bunch of mechanics to make interiors worth it.

 

[AngryAntz]

Wasn't there some kind of "outcry" for orrery maps as well?

Not a ton of gameplay value out of those, but dev resources went to making them for - someone.

You'd have to have a bunch of mechanics to make interiors worth it.

I love the orrery map. At least on the rare occation I look

 

[Furinkazan]

Wasn't there some kind of "outcry" for orrery maps as well?

Not a ton of gameplay value out of those, but dev resources went to making them for - someone.

You'd have to have a bunch of mechanics to make interiors worth it.

The orrery map was a bare minimum effort, like pretty much every bolted on feature. The concept art looked amazing. What we got wasn't.

 

[Cosmo]

The orrery map was a bare minimum effort, like pretty much every bolted on feature. The concept art looked amazing. What we got wasn't.

Bare minimum was the map in ED 1.0. The orrery map is an extra non-essential feature.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Ship interiors wouldn't add anything unless there's something to do. We all take a stroll around inside our ships once then never do it again until there's actually a purpose to it.

Nice idea and I get the attraction but it's not exactly going to add much game wise.

You are showing an incredibly limited imagination Imo. There are heaps of things which could be added along with ships interiors to give us something to do.
Perhaps it's not a direction FD want to take the game and that is FDs choice but to suggest they won't add to gameplay is like saying planetary landing won't add to gameplay
It only doesn't add anything if FD choose not not add anything.

NPC boarding parties / boarding NPC ships.

possibly player PvP boarding parties too but I accept this is potentially loaded with problems so keeping separate.

Ship repairs in space (those without DLC just blow up we get chance to fix)

Missions to sneak into a ship and plant bombs / recording devices (counter missions to remove / disable such devices).

Loads more too but gott a get ready for work.

(And for me just having them is gameplay as well as it adds to presence of being in a ship having to get in a ship before flying. The bigger ships I accept optional turbo lift would likely need to be implemented where the boarding ramp is not near the cockpit.)

Note the thing with the above is it would only be leveraging mechanics already in ED:O

 

[Eraden]

You are showing an incredibly limited imagination Imo. There are heaps of things which could be added along with ships interiors to give us something to do.
Perhaps it's not a direction FD want to take the game and that is FDs choice but to suggest they won't add to gameplay is like saying planetary landing won't add to gameplay
It only doesn't add anything if FD choose not not add anything.

NPC boarding parties / boarding NPC ships.

possibly player PvP boarding parties too but I accept this is potentially loaded with problems so keeping separate.

Ship repairs in space (those without DLC just blow up we get chance to fix)

Missions to sneak into a ship and plant bombs / recording devices (counter missions to remove / disable such devices).

Loads more too but gott a get ready for work.

(And for me just having them is gameplay as well as it adds to presence of being in a ship having to get in a ship before flying. The bigger ships I accept optional turbo lift would likely need to be implemented where the boarding ramp is not near the cockpit.)

I bolded the last part of your post to indicate the other claim that is constantly being made by various people opposed to ship interiors: The interiors by themselves offer no gameplay. Perhaps for them, there is little gameplay value in simply having ship interiors, but for some of us, that ALONE is a form of gameplay. And yet, this argument is constantly being made and often touted as some form of universal fact. Such hubris. Between this and the "all or nothing" argument, this whole debate is beginning to sound like one of the sides is basically putting their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalalalala". I'll leave it to you to decide which side may be doing this.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for the argument made that implementing ship interiors might be too costly or time consuming for FDev. Since Frontier is usually rather loathe to talk much about these things, we are left with not knowing if this is really financially feasible or not. My suggestions on how to partially implement ship interiors were meant as a way to put forth a roadmap towards such a goal that might not be as taxing as some would suggest. I still think it's doable. The question is, how many people would be interested in an initially limited approach? Perhaps a MUCH more detailed poll than the one that was previously done, would get the answers we need to find out if this is worth the effort.

 

[Eraden]

Your words are as much of an argument as a tapestry is a wall. So many words to say nothing.

If you can't comprehend what I wrote, that's your problem. If you are just trying to be a jerk, well, that's also your problem. Simply put, There are people out there who would enjoy ship interiors, no matter how limited they might initially be. Additionally, I have made suggestions on how to implement some features without having to do complete interiors. I have also suggested that a detailed poll would be in order to find out if this is even worth the effort.

 

[Stigbob]

You are showing an incredibly limited imagination Imo. There are heaps of things which could be added along with ships interiors to give us something to do.
Perhaps it's not a direction FD want to take the game and that is FDs choice but to suggest they won't add to gameplay is like saying planetary landing won't add to gameplay
It only doesn't add anything if FD choose not not add anything.

NPC boarding parties / boarding NPC ships.

possibly player PvP boarding parties too but I accept this is potentially loaded with problems so keeping separate.

Ship repairs in space (those without DLC just blow up we get chance to fix)

Missions to sneak into a ship and plant bombs / recording devices (counter missions to remove / disable such devices).

Loads more too but gott a get ready for work.

(And for me just having them is gameplay as well as it adds to presence of being in a ship having to get in a ship before flying. The bigger ships I accept optional turbo lift would likely need to be implemented where the boarding ramp is not near the cockpit.)

That's not what I said. None of those things are in the game which is why I said it would be pointless fluff, just standing there admiring the interior wouldn't be any fun more than once.

This is one of those buy games for what they actually are rather than what you imagine you'd quite like things.

 

[Eraden]

That's not what I said. None of those things are in the game which is why I said it would be pointless fluff, just standing there admiring the interior wouldn't be any fun more than once.

This is one of those buy games for what they actually are rather than what you imagine you'd quite like things.

Stigbob, I understand and respect that YOU might not want to see a ship interior more than once. Please respect that there are others like myself who WOULD. The BIG question is: How many more people like me are there and are there enough of us to make this financially feasible even if it were to be a limited release?

 

[Stigbob]

Stigbob, I understand and respect that YOU might not want to see a ship interior more than once. Please respect that there are others like myself who WOULD.

If my perfectly reasonable opinion makes you feel disrespected in some strange way just pop me on ignore.

 

[Eraden]

If my perfectly reasonable opinion makes you feel disrespected in some strange way just pop me on ignore.

It's the fact that you are making this statement as if it were fact, that I find annoying. It may be true for you. It may be true for others. It is not true for me and not for a number of other people. How many, I do not know. I would like to know because this would give us some understanding as to whether or not this is even worth the effort. If you had simply said that for yourself and others like you, this feature would not be used more than once, I wouldn't have called you out on this because you would be factually correct.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

That's not what I said. None of those things are in the game which is why I said it would be pointless fluff, just standing there admiring the interior wouldn't be any fun more than once.

This is one of those buy games for what they actually are rather than what you imagine you'd quite like things.

I always thought this was a discussion forum where you chatted about things such like features you would like to see in the game or stuff the developers had stated they were adding into the game......