A comparison of ED vs X3

[Ytheleus]

I've played X2 and X3, and the OP's criticisms are informed by similar experience, though it is always a mistake to give too much weight to personal opinions where art criticism is concerned. The best point there for me is the general one that a wide variety of money sinks (and time sinks) make sandbox games playable for long periods, providing a variety of goals as well as things to do if players want to goof off for a few hours. At the same time X's stories and setting were always cartoonish, usually poorly implemented and were clearly translated into English by non-native speakers. The best that could be said is that narrative and setting sometimes had a quirky charm, but they were definitely only loosely tacked on.

An important point of similarity between X3 and ED I'd like to mention is player community involvement. Egosoft have a terrible history of unplayable first releases, perhaps under pressure from evil publishers looking for fast ROI at any cost, but the X player community repeatedly kicked the franchise back into shape.

Convinced of their own individual brilliance, ES decided to develop a new game without extensive player involvement, leading directly to the current disaster of X-Rebirth, which even the patient X community cannot save due to the ludicrous game design. ED will not suffer that fate as long as many committed players are involved in the development process.

Player involvement, along with a more professional approach to software development, is why ED will be more than OK in my view.

 

[Tronicus]

It is going to be very interesting to see if ANY of the new space sim games will fill the role of MMO in space. And really, MMO is not the right term. What space sim junkies are looking for is an open sandbox with unlimited possibilities in a multiplayer environment. X3 did a fantastic job of giving the player a rich environment with pretty much unlimited posibilities. After a few hundred hours of dedicated gaming, you would generally top out at what you were trying to accomplish. Without a multiplayer aspect to it, the game just sort of dead ended. If X-rebirth would have been a multiplayer X3, they would have made a fortune.

Elite is not some brand new game. It is essentially an updated elite:frontier. They have done an excellent job so far recreating that game to modern computing abilities. But just like everyone else, we have yet to see how they well they are going to integrate all the aspects of an MMO-esque sandbox. I will play ED for a long time, it is nostalgic, and I have expectations that I am waiting to see if they are fulfilled. I am optimistic.

 

[eWizard]

Hey I've got 160 hours in ED and counting. I've already burned the living daylights out of the X series and need something new and shiny. I definitely plan on revisiting my comparison and likely making a video review maybe a week or two after the official release. Heh I sound like such an X fanboy, though I played nearly every space sim out there. Think I got about 120 hours in SG2, another 500 hours in Freelancer (I could make an entire thread about this gem too), and about 20 hours in Darkstar One (hey it's not THAT bad, ok maybe it is).

I think it's important to get the fundamentals and groundwork as perfect as possible before adding features, and in this regard FD has done a similarly perfect job.

Oh I did love FreeLancer multiplayer, hours and hours of fun

 

[Interstellar]

The reason I brought up X3 as a comparison, despite it's lack of multiplayer is simply because I think people need to start getting used to thinking of and reviewing ED more as a solo or co-op experience. There is a very serious issue that needs bringing up in regards to player saturation vs universe size at launch. Space sims are only just recently breaking out of their niche and hitting the mainstream, but they are no where nearly as close to the quantity of players in traditional MMO's, RPG's and FPS games. With the absolutely ludicrous amount of sectors that will be added via procedural generation, it is highly likely that after a few months post release, everyone will be so far spread out that human contact will be uncommon. Then there is the fact that sectors in the current beta, despite having 15+ players all in the same place, still have so little interaction player interaction that you may as well be playing solo. Now imagine if it takes 5-6 jumps to encounter just one player. This scenario is an almost certainty and will only get worse with time, assuming you aren't camping the starting sectors of course. Thankfully it's unlikely to reach the levels of solidarity in No Man's Sky. Ultimately, it's inevitable that you will be spending some time alone at some point, so the features in ED *must* be able to support that, it won't be able to use multiplayer as a crutch for much longer.

 

[hobblygobbly]

I still play the X series, I love running an empire/fleets/etc. I still play all these games, they're great, still play EVE too. They are all great games (except Rebirth. >:S). The best part about all these games is that they focus on different aspects and excel in them, Elite excels in its own aspects, EVE the same, X the same with its empire/fleets/etc, they all share the common theme of space. I don't understand why some people like to fight over these games, I wonder if they ever play any of them because they're so wildly different and that's why they're all great because they offer something different. Rebirth is still a huge disappointment for me, I can't fathom how they basically did away and broke everything that made what the X series what it is.

 

[Snowdog]

Elite does seem to be a remake of the older game with a few (many) new twists.. we are all looking for "more" from ED and hope it will deliver. I bought into it knowing it might not but thought it was worth the investment to help push it further along.. so far it is pretty good. I just want them to continue pushing forward and not stop

 

[TheNut]

Each space sim has its own pros and cons. Some are great at story telling, others for adventure. For me, the X-series has definitely raised the bar for adventure space sims. Although X3 did have quite a few annoying limitations and immersion breaking faults, its focus on self development in a world of opportunity was second to none. Part of me hopes that FD will lighten up a bit more towards player/custom faction (ie: guild) owned property and commerce. It's the social element that drives these types of games and EDs technology is in a perfect place to dominate that market. Not to mention, it's folly to think otherwise with tech like ED. Solar systems are ripe for the taking.

However, I do understand their decisions. It's quite costly to have the infrastructure in place to allow an MMO X3 like experience in a universe as big as ED. Such a service would require you charge subscriptions to pay for the server and storage upkeep costs. In a universe that FD controls directly, it's as simple as sending down a patch or command to players and they all get the same update. A static universe for everyone would drive costs down considerably and allow a more free-to-play model. Whether or not that's viable for sustained player growth, only time will tell. Even Star Citizen will be limited in this regard, again to allow a free-to-play model. Such limitations do make gameplay longevity difficult since you sacrifice horizontal progression for vertical progression. And sooner or later, you will hit the ceiling.

Having said that, realistically I think the only way to experience that level of entertainment is through a single player game like X3. So I see both games for what they are. ED for me is definitely a more casual experience. I'm not looking to top the leaderboards or live life out in the frontier. Just do a little bit of everything and enjoy the ride.

 

[Foreverowned]

What i liked in X3 were the pilot's faces popping up during comms, whther it was realistic or not i don't know but it did wonders for immersion, and the aliens were funny and memorable, "call back later, if you dare!"

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

X-Rebirth has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. <REDACTED>.



I hope so. I want this game to give me a reason to play it.

My mistake, I presumed a game in the same franchise made by same company would be literally the same game.

 

[kermit3]

i have to agree with this in that at this time (and before everybody shouts its still beta ) game play is limited and boring , the areas i think that need to be fixed are
1. multi-player
2. storyline/back story's
3. mining and building ( ie you mine resources then use the resources to build modules to sell " and yes i know eve do'es this at the moment")
4 pvp this is just not viable at the moment ie support one faction or the other so you come across a member of the other faction you can legitimately kill them
5 . in game social chat etc. not even implemented so no proper interaction of players even if you magically can see one

as for the X series i still have them 1,2 and 3 it was awesome and i hope these are the forerunner to this new elite and that elite is not just a rehash of the original game as we have moved on from that now and need new challenges etc. plus co-op with other players is now the norm not the exception .

 

[Jack Reaver]

Some great points. This is the main one for me.

"X3: Can use accumulated credits to actually build your own stations and create your own business, or venture on the stock market, or hire wingmen, or create an entire army that follows you around.
ED: Can't do anything AT ALL with your credits except by more ships, a loop that makes no sense."

I'm not interested in having a ship with the biggest guns, I want to own the equivalent of Rio Tinto, Barrick Gold or Lockheed Martin in space and buy/sell shares in other player and NPC companies.


JR.

 

[Zenicetus]

Some great points. This is the main one for me.

"X3: Can use accumulated credits to actually build your own stations and create your own business, or venture on the stock market, or hire wingmen, or create an entire army that follows you around.
ED: Can't do anything AT ALL with your credits except by more ships, a loop that makes no sense."

I'm not interested in having a ship with the biggest guns, I want to own the equivalent of Rio Tinto, Barrick Gold or Lockheed Martin in space and buy/sell shares in other player and NPC companies.

That might be a fun game, but it's not this game, and it was never designed to be anything like that. It's a hands-on-stick space adventure... Han Solo trying to make a living with his ship, not sitting in a corporate boardroom smoking a cigar.

 

[Meritz]

Some great points. This is the main one for me.

"X3: Can use accumulated credits to actually build your own stations and create your own business, or venture on the stock market, or hire wingmen, or create an entire army that follows you around.
ED: Can't do anything AT ALL with your credits except by more ships, a loop that makes no sense."

I'm not interested in having a ship with the biggest guns, I want to own the equivalent of Rio Tinto, Barrick Gold or Lockheed Martin in space and buy/sell shares in other player and NPC companies.


JR.

EvE online has you covered. ED is trying to do something completely different. As others have said, it is basically the ultimate Han Solo (or Boba Fett, or that pirate guy) simulator. It's about you, your place in the galaxy and your ship. Not your business empire. Not your army. You.

And OP, to say that every system feels the same is to admit that you don't even look at where you're going. Tunnel vision. Today I spent ten minutes watching the flares on a wonderful purple-pink red dwarf that I stumbled across while scanning down a system. Just sat there and enjoyed the view. After that I cruised around the rings of a gas giant, then descended into its massive shadow and fought furious battles with pirates lurking within, dodging asteroids in near complete darkness. Next I've glided over the gleaming silver hull of an Ocellus station, watching the rays of a nearby star make shadows dance across my cockpit...

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... not many games can make you sound like Roy Batty, and that's saying something. Don't compare stuff like that with painted backgrounds and call them original.

 

[Interstellar]

I'm tired of people saying that X3 has bad backgrounds and that ED does not. Have you actually looked at the background in ED? Have you even played X3? In ED, the stars don't twinkle, there is a nebula in the same place every time, and there is zero variety between sectors. While X3's backgrounds are at least very different, and provide a vastly different feel in each and every sector. I took this just a couple of minutes ago, both games on the max details.

X3
Argon Prime: http://i.imgur.com/SgWnhQc.png
Home of Light: http://i.imgur.com/qgxF8wE.jpg
President's End: http://i.imgur.com/EGRmW9C.png
Heron's Nebula: http://i.imgur.com/6W3XjiH.png

ED
Aulin: http://i.imgur.com/XgzBRL5.jpg
Aganippe: http://i.imgur.com/uq2z7VF.jpg
Ross 490: http://i.imgur.com/AUj8aoR.jpg

I'd much rather have 300 systems, hand crafted with personality, rather than a billion procedurally bland ones.
Also you can't say that ED is anything like "The Adventures of Han Solo". Han had dozens, maybe even hundreds of different alien species to deal with.

 

[Meritz]

I'm tired of people saying that X3 has bad backgrounds and that ED does not. Have you actually looked at the background in ED? Have you even played X3? In ED, the stars don't twinkle, there is a nebula in the same place every time, and there is zero variety between sectors. While X3's backgrounds are at least very different, and provide a vastly different feel in each and every sector. Do I really need to take screenshot comparisons? Sigh, here you go, I took this just a couple of minutes ago, both games on the max details.

X3
Argon Prime: http://i.imgur.com/SgWnhQc.png
Home of Light: http://i.imgur.com/qgxF8wE.jpg
President's End: http://i.imgur.com/EGRmW9C.png
Heron's Nebula: http://i.imgur.com/6W3XjiH.png

ED
Aulin: http://i.imgur.com/uq2z7VF.jpg
Aganippe: http://i.imgur.com/XgzBRL5.jpg
Ross 490: http://i.imgur.com/AUj8aoR.jpg

Get your eyes checked.

I have played X3. It has pretty backgrounds. I haven't looked at the backgrounds in ED because it has none - that galaxy is actually there. As opposed to a painted planet or nebula which you can never, ever get any closer to.

By the way, stars don't twinkle because you're in frikkin' vacuum and there are no thermal layers of an atmosphere to make starlight twinkle. And not only do constellations change, but that "nebula" is a *galaxy* 100 000 light years in diameter and of course it is always in the "same spot" when you move a few dozen light years. If you moved above or below the galactic disc for a few hundred light years, it would look vastly different. Learn some basic astronomy, will you?

 

[Interstellar]

I have played X3. It has pretty backgrounds. I haven't looked at the backgrounds in ED because it has none - that galaxy is actually there. As opposed to a painted planet or nebula which you can never, ever get any closer to.

By the way, stars don't twinkle because you're in frikkin' vacuum and there are no thermal layers of an atmosphere to make starlight twinkle. And not only do constellations change, but that "nebula" is a *galaxy* 100 000 light years in diameter and of course it is always in the "same spot" when you move a few dozen light years. If you moved above or below the galactic disc for a few hundred light years, it would look vastly different. Learn some basic astronomy, will you?

Oh so now we are playing the "realism" card? Go play Space Engine if that is what you want. Some of us are actually trying to not get bored to death by bland and repetitive actions and visuals. This is a video game. Besides, no one said that FD should break the realism, just put some variety into their sectors.

 

[Meritz]

Oh so now we are playing the "realism" card? Go play Space Engine if that is what you want. Some of us are actually trying to not get bored to death by bland and repetitive actions and visuals. This is a video game.

So all video games must be stage affairs with bells and whistles to entertain distracted minds? Please, this sounds like an argument of theme park vs sandbox MMO. You obviously like small scale, artificially flavored "sci-fi". Go play SWTOR if that's what you want. Some of us are actually trying not to get bored to death by bland and repetitive actions and visuals.

I'll have my 1:1 artificial galaxy and intend to enjoy it.

 

[Interstellar]

So all video games must be stage affairs with bells and whistles to entertain distracted minds? Please, this sounds like an argument of theme park vs sandbox MMO. You obviously like small scale, artificially flavored "sci-fi". Go play SWTOR if that's what you want. Some of us are actually trying not to get bored to death by bland and repetitive actions and visuals.

I'll have my 1:1 artificial galaxy and intend to enjoy it.

All video games need to be enjoyable and fun. Go play Space Engine, you will like it better. The rest of us are going to try to improve the game. It's boring as hell right now, and many people agree. There is no reason to have to sacrifice the 1:1 scale to achieve greater variety in each sector. Both of us can be appeased.

 

[Meritz]

All video games need to be enjoyable and fun. Go play Space Engine, you will like it better. The rest of us are going to try to improve the game.
It's boring as hell right now, and many people agree.

Well, FD don't and luckily so. You're not trying to improve the game, you're trying to ruin it. Why? because, frankly, it's not the game for you but you wish it was. Which is weird, because there is another game much more suitable to your tastes in development right now. It's called Star Citizen and has exactly what you want. Smallish number of hand-crafted "unique" systems for you to enjoy. So why don't you and your "many others" go bask in its glory and leave the rest of us to enjoy ED for what it is, a hard sci-fi, vast, open sandbox simulation.

What is bland to you is gorgeous to me. What is boring to you is infinitely interesting to me.

De gustibus non est disputandum friend, but you're trying to spit in my soup to "improve the flavor". Go get your own.

Bet you'll cry like a baby when the Thargoids invade because you know, realism and all that.

The Drake Equation says "hi". Nothing unrealistic about aliens.

 

[Interstellar]

This game is far from realistic in so many different ways, but sure, keep blinding yourself to that. You are trying to make ED appeal to only a tiny niche market of astronomy professors like you. I bet there are many people who have actual fun while working on calculus equations, does that mean it would make a good video game? Hell no. News for you buddy, most of us are playing this because they want to play a good space sim game. In the end, this is a video game. If you want true realism, go play Space Engine like I mentioned multiple times. Let's talk about Drake's Equation too. Do you know how many Earthlike planets can be visited in ED? Now look how many alien races we have found. Yeah realism.

And again "There is no reason to have to sacrifice the 1:1 scale to achieve greater variety in each sector. Both of us can be appeased."
They can add things like solar flares in certain systems, or occasional meteoroid fields that appear randomly in certain sectors and need to be navigated. The options are endless, but no let's all keep it bland and boring to appease the hard core astronomers that make up 0.5% of the playerbase, FD will get right on it.

Ultimately if you show space sim fans the above screenshots of X3, then the screenshots of ED and ask them which game they would rather be playing, they would pick X3. FD are a business despite what you may be thinking, they don't exist to make astronomers happy, they exist to make money while making the MAJORITY of possible players happy. Stop being so anti-progress, it isn't helping anyone.