A comparison of ED vs X3

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Interstellar

I
There is no reason why ED can't borrow SOME aspects of what made other games great. It seems like you guys all want FD to just come up with all the ideas themselves. There is only so much that they can invent. Why are you all so insistent on putting the blinders on the horse? There are decades of historical data which involve both failures and successes in video gaming and you guys are so adamantly against the idea that FD tap into any of it? Get some perspective people, and stop being so ignorant, you are only hurting development by doing that. By bringing up a bunch of things that made X3 great, FD can and will choose which, if any, parts they like and implement them at their own discretion. Stop being so negative about it, if you don't like the proposed changes, then give your opinion, I don't care. I stand by my suggestions and feel they would make ED better, because frankly, right now it's a boring and tedious grind with no sense of wonder or excitement. I get more thrills out of watching people play X3 on youtube.

Robert Maynard said:
Links, please?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT589peK4jk#t=4m52s
 
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Mu77ley

Volunteer Moderator
Mu77ley
Interstellar said:
Oh please, you made that up just now on the spot. I understand the speakers for the computer's voice, but you are saying it also reproduces your engine accelerating, guns firing, other ships zipping by? Yeah right, talk about far fetched. Even in the video they said that it was unrealistic but they did it for gameplay reasons. If something unrealistic adds good gameplay to the game, clearly they aren't above adding it. Hence my suggestions still have merit.
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Internal ship sounds you hear as you always would as there is atmosphere in the ship. External stuff is generated by the ship as I stated. All this was detailed in an interview with the sound designer here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8236

Do some research and don't be so damn rude....
 
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Gibbonici

Gibbonici
Interstellar said:
Stop being so anti-progress, it isn't helping anyone.
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Progress isn't doing the same things other games have been doing for decades. Progress is taking things in a new direction.

It's a ways down the line yet, as new features often are in big games, but once we've got planetary landings and the ability to walk around and explore on foot, I think the expectations from other games will become largely irrelevant. The general direction Elite is taking both during development and out past release is well documented, and it's not going down the same path that the X games and EvE have already perfected. Why would it? There are many different ways a space game on this scale can go, and I've always been disappointed that the few we've had in recent years have just gone down the same one. Both Elite and Star Citizen are heading in new and different directions, and I'm pretty excited about it.
 

Meritz

Meritz
Interstellar said:
THANK YOU! All that video does is prove my point. They added sound effects into the game despite it being a scientific fact that in space we would not be hearing ANYTHING AT ALL outside of our ships. Go play Shattered Horizon to see how sound in space should have been handled. That means they chose gameplay > realism. There is no reason why the same thing can't be applied to my suggestions, and we are already getting "colorful" nebulas, so it appears that they agree with me that their systems are currently bland. I'm willing to bet that in 3 months, the game will be closer to my vision, than it will be of yours. And knowing that, I can leave you there sitting in your chair contemplating what will happen to the game that you oh so love, and that makes me quite happy. Have a nice day :)
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Again, watch what they say at 6:37 - they are explicitly stating that balancing gameplay with scientific realism is important to them. And my vision of the game, as far as the core mechanics go, is perfectly in sync with what FD have come up with so far. Will they add interesting stuff for us to find? Sure, and I welcome it. Space is interesting. Will you be tripping over gun-toting aliens while dodging black holes wrapped in Dyson spheres? Nope. And that's good because everything gets old if overdone. And it's easy to overdo stuff when you're dealing with a scope so massive as in this game.

The thrill of finding something *special* and *new* is what drives exploration. Stop thinking in terms of a 20-30-100 systems and start thinking in tens of thousands, millions, hundreds of millions, billions.

A few systems like Sol and Achenar will be handcrafted. The rest is left to deep rules of procedural generation. This makes ED something special. Not only is it a game, but it can be much more. Depending on the depth of the simulation, it can become an experiment to interest and entertain sociologists (how will human society behave when faced with near unlimited potential for spreading out), astronomers (because the Stellar Forge, the procedural engine behind the ED galaxy, is using real scientific data on the formation of star systems) and so on.

This is also what makes exploration in this game so fantastic. It's actually exploring. Not even the developers know exactly what is out there. When you think of it that way, every new system is a new opportunity and that's great gameplay on its own.
 

Milky82

M
Interstellar said:
Oh please, you made that up just now on the spot. I understand the speakers for the computer's voice, but you are saying it also reproduces your engine accelerating, guns firing, other ships zipping by? Yeah right, talk about far fetched. Even in the video they said that it was unrealistic but they did it for gameplay reasons. If something unrealistic adds good gameplay to the game, clearly they aren't above adding it. Hence my suggestions still have merit.
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Hardly far fetched at all the new Golf GTI can be bought with a sound pack to make it sound better when driving it, because the actual engine is to quiet to make it feel like a sports car.
 

Unfluffydave

U
Interstellar said:
I'm tired of people saying that X3 has bad backgrounds and that ED does not. Have you actually looked at the background in ED? Have you even played X3? In ED, the stars don't twinkle, there is a nebula in the same place every time, and there is zero variety between sectors. While X3's backgrounds are at least very different, and provide a vastly different feel in each and every sector. Do I really need to take screenshot comparisons? Sigh, here you go, I took this just a couple of minutes ago, both games on the max details.

<snip of screenshot links>

Get your eyes checked. I'd much rather have 300 systems, hand crafted with personality, rather than a billion procedurally bland ones.
Also you can't say that ED is anything like "The Adventures of Han Solo". Han had dozens, maybe even hundreds of different alien species to deal with.
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Is asking for pixel crack, every system has to have something bling to keep attention.
 

Interstellar

I
Here's a true experiment. Release the game and let's see what it gets on Metacritic and how many players remain after a month. The game is boring to a large amount of players given how many copies were sold. I spent $75 on it, which is more than any AAA release, so of course I will voice my opinion about how to make it not so damn boring.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49296
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48480
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDanger...those_of_you_that_play_elitedo_you_get_bored/
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53747
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54636
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51287
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2iv1ik/make_supercruise_engaging/
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38447
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJep2TRppe8
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...now-what-game-is-as-boring-as-elite-dangerous

There is 30 google pages worth of content like the above. Expect the number of these types of posts to EXPLODE on release. Face it, your game is a boring grind, if you can't fix the grind, then at least make it enjoyable. My suggestions were merely a way to unsnorefest this game, but they were quickly shot down by the older players that want to keep this as simple and boring as possible. Hey guess what, 1984 called and they want their game back. It's almost 2015 and people are happy with a 1984 game with better graphics.
 
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Meritz

Meritz
Interstellar said:
Here's a true experiment. Release the game and let's see what it gets on Metacritic and how many players remain after a month. The game is BORING BORING BORING. I spent $75 on it, which is more than any AAA release, so of course I will voice my opinion about how to make it not so damn boring.
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Metacritic? You use metacritic for reference? The place famous for rating wars?

This keeps getting better and better. :D

The game is engrossing as it is. It's also not finished, a fact that you seem to have difficulty with.

Look here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Now if that's not enough content and stuff for you to do, I don't know what is.
 

OriginalBadBoy

O
Interstellar said:
Here's a true experiment. Release the game and let's see what it gets on Metacritic and how many players remain after a month. The game is BORING BORING BORING. I spent $75 on it, which is more than any AAA release, so of course I will voice my opinion about how to make it not so damn boring.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48480
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDanger...those_of_you_that_play_elitedo_you_get_bored/
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53747
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54636
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51287

Expect this number to EXPLODE on release.
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You have made your point .. So why not just let everyone else get on with it and go and play something else. By the way EVERY game gets boring eventually, including the X series of games. Different people will get bored of different games at different times.

As stated, you have said your piece .. Now just leave it
 

Meritz

Meritz
Interstellar said:
Expect the number of these types of posts to EXPLODE on release. Face it, your game is BORING.
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To COD kids. A good thing, I'd be worried if I found their shallow toys interesting.

And yeah, as with all games that go for a niche market, there will be a lot of confused people at first. I'm more worried about current lack of social features because that's really confusing since the game is marketed as MMO. Not so worried about WoW players wandering in here and expecting to see space orcs.

EvE is doing fine, and that game is making no apologies and holding no hands. No reason ED can't do the same. Not every game needs to be a "WoW killer".

And it is always better to attract a loyal but smaller fanbase than trying to cater to transient crowds who ditch your game as soon as the next one comes up. Loyal fanbases keep games going.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Interstellar said:
Here's a true experiment. Release the game and let's see what it gets on Metacritic and how many players remain after a month. The game is BORING BORING BORING. I spent $75 on it, which is more than any AAA release, so of course I will voice my opinion about how to make it not so damn boring.

Face it, your game is a BORING grind, if you can't fix the grind, then at least make it enjoyable. My suggestions were merely a way to unsnorefest this game, but they were quickly shot down by the old ass first elite playing mofos that want to keep this as simple and boring as possible. Meh, might just chargeback the game and delete it and wait for release reviews.
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whilst I am NOT saying none of your comments have any merit - the game is currently far from complete after all, and you are comparing a half finished brand new game against a game which has been tweaked for the last 8 years.....

There really is no need for your levels of aggression and really if you are going to try to state "facts" about what are wrong about the game you really need to at least try to do your homework - the comments of the sound in the game is proof of this, given you didnt even know what happens when your ship breaches and yet it didnt stop you having a go at someone who correctly explained how the sound works.

Also I suggest you try to separate the difference of factual comments from subjective comments.

ie, the game is BORING for you, and indeed I agree for a number of players, but that does not mean the game IS boring at all.

there are 1000's of us who love what we have so far. Elite is never going to be a game for everyone (just like for instance a game like DCS warthog is not for everyone)

the trick is balancing the game to appeal to as big a number as possible, without ruining it for those who actually like the game for what its original KS goals promised.

A tough balancing act for sure.... and "grind" as you call it is the bread and butter of the game, and to be honest this should be clear to anyone who played any of the 1st 3 games OR oolite.

as for metacritic....... sorry but screw metacritic. IMO it is an example of much of what is bad in modern gaming imo.
 
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Unfluffydave

U
Interstellar said:
Here's a true experiment. Release the game and let's see what it gets on Metacritic and how many players remain after a month. The game is BORING BORING BORING. I spent $75 on it, which is more than any AAA release, so of course I will voice my opinion about how to make it not so damn boring.

[/url]

Expect the number of these types of posts to EXPLODE on release. Face it, your game is a BORING grind, if you can't fix the grind, then at least make it enjoyable. My suggestions were merely a way to unsnorefest this game, but they were quickly shot down by the old ass first elite playing mofos that want to keep this as simple and boring as possible. Meh, might just chargeback the game and delete it and wait for release reviews.
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Self fulfilling prophecy. Of course those threads are going to explode, attention deficient players that want to be thrilled every second of their game time ARE going to find ED boring and ARE going to be spamming the forums wanting to turn ED into EVE, Star Commander, Counter Strike in Space or whatever game is their favourite. That is the nature of gaming of all genres and game forums.

As for "old ass first elite playing mofos", well THOSE are the guys developing the game THAT THEY WANT TO PLAY so where does that leave you?
 

Jason S

J
Hellhawk666 said:
I think you do raise some interesting points, but personally I found the X series of games to have exactly the fault you are concerned might affect ED - boredom. I played the life out of the first 3 games in that series - hundreds of hours - and in each case I eventually got to the point where I just lost interest.

I'm not saying ED is immune to this, on the contrary, it's a problem for all sandbox games, but I wouldn't praise the X games to the skies just on the basis of being able to buy more things than ships.

There are several essential things for any sandbox game, IMHO. First is depth of simulation - there has to be a rich back-story. Then there has to be many activities to undertake which are mutually exclusive so that in order to specialize you need to sacrifice a different path, and finally a world of persistent NPCs who form the background society. Those elements allow for emergent gameplay. ED will have all of these (at least they were promised). Interestingly, the X games really only have the first element which is why I eventually tired of them. You always follow the same path and there is always the eventual goal of building the huge trade empire.

The other major thing with a sandbox game is to just enjoy the moments and forget about the goal. I guarantee you that for every "seasoned" gamer who becomes frustrated by the lack of goal-directed play in ED there will be hundreds of more casual players who will thoroughly enjoy just flying around in space for decades to come.

This game has an interesting dynamic in that it is comparatively difficult to get into - you need to learn to fly the ship well and practice the skills you learn - however once that hurdle is past it is actually an ideal game to pick up and play for half an hour at a time. Do a little mining, take a trade run or two, jump two systems further out and go exploring, etc. There is no pressure to achieve a specified goal, and that will make it very popular with players who can only afford smaller chunks of time devoted to play.
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Exactly this for me.
 

Unfluffydave

U
Interstellar said:
<REDACTED>
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Which "newly formed company" are you referring to? If it isn't a fictional company then I will deduce you mean the makers of ED, Frontier Developments? yet again you spout without checking your facts. Frontier Developments has been around since 1994, longer than you have I suspect and ED isn't their first game, read and educate yourself with some facts: http://www.frontier.co.uk/games/projects/ . Introducing nebulas isnt exactly bypassing us old guys, here is a newsflash for you: NEBULAE EXIST IN REAL LIFE in the Milky Way so it is quite reasonable even to the die hard "realists" that they would be in the game.
 
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