A comparison of ED vs X3

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If anyone has played Minecraft, you will know that this game also uses procedural generation which is nearly endless in scope. Sure, you can walk for a mile and the terrain will be shaped differently, but is it actually different? It's still the same dirt blocks and sheep and once you come to that realization, your enjoyment plummets. That's how I feel about ED.

That is fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it..... but,........ there are millions of people who are utterly obsessed with minecraft, and if ED has as many fans of the game as minecraft does then imo that will make the game a huge success.

it does not mean you are wrong to not like minecraft (or elite) but it does mean you are wrong to objectively state that either game is dull and lacking in content..... its just that subjectively you want more.

As I said in my very 1st response on this thread..... I want more too, and I think we will get it, but, anyone who thinks the game is, at its core boring now, and do not like its basic mechanics then sadly for them, even with more content, I think this game is not going to please them.

It is unfair to compare, contentwise, an 8 year old game which has a huge modding community and has had a lot of work done to it to a game which is still getting the content added.

even at launch, 1.0 of elite will hopefully be a shadow of what it will be in 18months from now after its DLC modules come out.

 

[Interstellar]

We view games on the a screen of some sort and interact with them using a variety of input devices. It is our ability to use our imagination to fill in the gaps that allows us to become more involved in the game. To resolve all computer based games to "well, it's just bits and pixels" doesn't help us very much in this regard.

Sure, but you can't expect to build an entire game using just our imagination. If one doesn't have an overly active imagination, then what is he to think when he is confronted with a game that demands said imagination for it to be considered enjoyable? In this generation of gaming, there are very few games that force us to fill in the blanks, but ED is trying to fill entire pages. This stems from the "older player" mentality which is consuming this game. 15 years ago you had to use your imagination to fill in the gaps because technology back then couldn't achieve some of the things that you wanted it to do. In this day and age, we have advanced to a point where anything you can dream of can be made a reality in video games. The vast majority of video game developers understand that and create complete experiences, leaving only minor details to the imagination (such as Gordon Freeman, the silent protagonist). Meanwhile ED is trying to cater to the previous generation, simply because those players are having trouble adapting to the shift in gameplay mechanics, and is forcing our current generation to try to fill the empty universe with their imagination. Well it's not working, at least not for me. I require actual content. Perhaps Star Citizen will deliver and you guys are right, ED just isn't for me or most people of this generation of gaming.

 

[Milky82]

Sure, but you can't expect to build an entire game using just our imagination. If one doesn't have an overly active imagination, then what is he to think when he is confronted with a game that demands said imagination for it to be considered enjoyable? In this generation of gaming, there are very few games that force us to fill in the blanks, but ED is trying to fill entire pages. This stems from the "older player" mentality which is consuming this game. 15 years ago you had to use your imagination to fill in the gaps because technology back then couldn't achieve some of the things that you wanted it to do. In this day and age, we have advanced to a point where anything you can dream of can be made a reality in video games. The vast majority of video game developers understand that and create complete experiences, leaving only minor details to the imagination (such as Gordon Freeman, the silent protagonist). Meanwhile ED is trying to cater to the previous generation, simply because those players are having trouble adapting to the shift in gameplay mechanics, and is forcing our current generation to try to fill their empty universe with their imagination. Well it's not working, at least not for me. I require actual content. Perhaps Star Citizen will deliver and you guys are right, ED just isn't for me or most people of this generation of gaming.

Its simple some people buy games like Call of Duty etc, some people but strategy games like Harpoon etc, Some people buy Flight sims like DCS A10 etc and others don't

Theres loads of games out on the market I wouldnt bother with, does that mean they are boring or broken ? I bet they arent to the people that play them.
Its horses for courses.

 

[Interstellar]

Its simple some people buy games like Call of Duty etc, some people but strategy games like Harpoon etc, Some people buy Flight sims like DCS A10 etc and others don't

Theres loads of games out on the market I wouldnt bother with, does that mean they are boring or broken ? I bet they arent to the people that play them.
Its horses for courses.

The difference here is that I buy and enjoy space sims. ED is a space sim that I bought, but am having trouble enjoying. I have bought and played dozens of other space sims. The only other one that I disliked was X-Rebirth because it was a piece of garbage. All the other games had features that attracted me. While ED is not worse or even remotely close to the travesty that X-Rebirth was, it still is inferior to many of the other space sims that I have played (at the time of purchase of course). I didn't make a single comment on the X-Rebirth forums, simply because I thought the game couldn't be salvaged. I am here because I believe ED can be.

All in my opinion, of course.

 

[BiggerBoat]

I enjoy X3. However, I sometimes wish they'd just do away with the "in the cockpit" stuff and focus the UI on what the series does best -- building your space enterprise. The flight model and combat is pretty unsatisfying. The graphics are pretty but space backgrounds suffer from being a skybox that you can't interact with.

I spend much of my time in X3 sitting somewhere in my ship, managing all of my drone feighters and satellite relays. It's kind of goofy if you think about it. Shouldn't I just rent an office on a station somewhere? That process is made cumbersome by a UI that--let's face it--has always been wonky to say the least (a bit better with mods). But, in spite of that, it's a heck of a lot of fun and I've had great experiences in X3.

Elite, on the other hand, is focused on your life as a pilot. The cockpit experience is everything. The scale galaxy, the sound design, the graphics, all contribute to this.

My first time playing the beta, I was sitting outside a busy station, waiting for docking permission, matching rotation with the entrance, watching the stars and faraway galaxies spin above me, a gas giant to my left, little ships darting here and there while others sat around me and complained about the lines. Every 360 degrees the nearest star and the arm of the milky way would spin into view, casting the station in silhouette.

Elite can turn sitting in a queue into a sublime experience. It's amazing.

Good thing we'll always have X3 to play space mogul. It's a great game as well. I am glad that Elite is focused on something different: the lonely life of a space captain, out amid the airless expanse in a sea of stars.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Perhaps Star Citizen will deliver and you guys are right, ED just isn't for me or most people of this generation of gaming.

I am curious, do you realise it isnt your personal views of the game which gets some peoples backs up, it is the hugely wide brush that you paint with when you claim to speak for this great majority of people.

I know for a fact many of the guys from the various PC gaming magazines are completely hyped for this game, and have played way more hours than I........ and FWIW they are well and truly in "your" gaming age demographic......

(and whilst I may have 10 years on you, I assure you my gaming experiences are pretty wide myself! its not like I have been living under a rock this last 20 years only playing elite, frontier or 1st encounters. Outside of Eve (tried but not my thing) & X rebirth I have purchased almost every space game I could get my hands on)

Have you played this in VR? you say things look small, well, all I can say is, it certainly doesnt in VR.

everything is absolutely massive, even sitting in your ship in a space station is like sitting in the biggest aircraft hanger you have ever seen........

I must admit it has ruined gaming on a monitor for me a little.... I have not played elite at all outside of VR since july.

 

[Milky82]

The difference here is that I buy and enjoy space sims. ED is a space sim that I bought, but am having trouble enjoying. I have bought and played dozens of other space sims. The only other one that I disliked was X-Rebirth because it was a piece of garbage. All the other games had features that attracted me. While ED is not worse or even remotely close to the travesty that X-Rebirth was, it still is inferior to many of the other space sims that I have played (at the time of purchase of course). I didn't make a single comment on the X-Rebirth forums, simply because I thought the game couldn't be salvaged. I am here because I believe ED can be.

All in my opinion, of course.

Then move on and play what you want, no one forced you to play ED as a beta. Its your choice. Why are you continuing to harp on about these things if you have made your mind up ?
Development will continue as the Dev's planned not as you or I think it should. Personally I thinks theres nothing to salvage and it enjoyable as it stands.

 

[Interstellar]

I enjoy X3. However, I sometimes wish they'd just do away with the "in the cockpit" stuff and focus the UI on what the series does best -- building your space enterprise. The flight model and combat is pretty unsatisfying. The graphics are pretty but space backgrounds suffer from being a skybox that you can't interact with.

I spend much of my time in X3 sitting somewhere in my ship, managing all of my drone feighters and satellite relays. It's kind of goofy if you think about it. Shouldn't I just rent an office on a station somewhere? That process is made cumbersome by a UI that--let's face it--has always been wonky to say the least (a bit better with mods). But, in spite of that, it's a heck of a lot of fun and I've had great experiences in X3.

Elite, on the other hand, is focused on your life as a pilot. The cockpit experience is everything. The scale galaxy, the sound design, the graphics, all contribute to this.

My first time playing the beta, I was sitting outside a busy station, waiting for docking permission, matching rotation with the entrance, watching the stars and faraway galaxies spin above me, a gas giant to my left, little ships darting here and there while others sat around me and complained about the lines. Every 360 degrees the nearest star and the arm of the milky way would spin into view, casting the station in silhouette.

Elite can turn sitting in a queue into a sublime experience. It's amazing.

Good thing we'll always have X3 to play space mogul. It's a great game as well. I am glad that Elite is focused on something different: the lonely life of a space captain, out amid the airless expanse in a sea of stars.

I'm glad you like it . Unfortunately for me, I can't attain that sense of wonder like you can on certain things. I see the gas giant, I think "meh, just a video game orb". I see the rotation station, I think "damn it stay still". I see the ships, I think "seen that before in other games".

The things that do grab my attention are the cockpit and the sound design. It just takes a lot to impress me I guess.

I am curious, do you realise it isnt your personal views of the game which gets some peoples backs up, it is the hugely wide brush that you paint with when you claim to speak for this great majority of people.

I know for a fact many of the guys from the various PC gaming magazines are completely hyped for this game, and have played way more hours than I........ and FWIW they are well and truly in "your" gaming age demographic......

(and whilst I may have 10 years on you, I assure you my gaming experiences are pretty wide myself! its not like I have been living under a rock this last 20 years only playing elite, frontier or 1st encounters. Outside of Eve (tried but not my thing) & X rebirth I have purchased almost every space game I could get my hands on)

Oh believe me, I was hyped too. Then I played the game for a dozen hours.

Then move on and play what you want, no one forced you to play ED as a beta. Its your choice. Why are you continuing to harp on about these things if you have made your mind up ?
Development will continue as the Dev's planned not as you or I think it should. Personally I thinks theres nothing to salvage and it enjoyable as it stands.

Then go play it, why are you here? I payed the $75 already, I'm not just going to throw that away and give up on an opinion I feel strongly about simply because some random guy on the forum told me to leave.

 

[Milky82]

I'm glad you like it . Unfortunately for me, I can't attain that sense of wonder like you can on certain things. I see the gas giant, I think "meh, just a video game orb". I see the rotation station, I think "damn it stay still". I see the ships, I think "seen that before in other games".

The things that do grab my attention are the cockpit and the sound design. It just takes a lot to impress me I guess.


Oh believe me, I was hyped too. Then I played the game for a dozen hours.


Then go play it, why are you here?

Im at work goofing off because I start a new job next week Playing Elite in the office maybe a little to far

 

[Colonel Kenney]

This is a great post.

There are some awesome things they are doing perfect just like the original game. But to take it to the next level will need more. What we have is a very dry universe with no character whatsoever with bland trading fighting etc that is pretty much meaningless. With X3 you felt like you were building something. With ED its just a treadmill and some fun exploration seeing what possibly could exist out in the galaxy.

It really is apples and oranges ... Elite was always dry and mechanical as a game. So they are reproducing that. I was hoping it wouldn't become wing commander and a movie production but I hoped there was some form of soul of the game that kept you interested.. some sort of content.. that wasn't manually generated like the Eranin war.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Then go play it, why are you here? I payed the $75 already, I'm not just going to throw that away and give up on an opinion I feel strongly about simply because some random guy on the forum told me to leave.

.... and neither are Frontier likely to significantly rework the game "simply because some random guy on the forum told" them to.

 

[Fromhell]

This thread is still open? 12 pages of complaints that the game is not X3.. shouldn´t this be in the other games section anyway?

Why don´t you try turning X-Rebirth into X3 over at the Egosoft site, it seems they keep adding features from the prequel anyway.

 

[Interstellar]

.... and neither are Frontier likely to significantly rework the game "simply because some random guy on the forum told" them to.

If you look at the thread, roughly half, possibly even more agree that the game is bland and uninteresting, so it's hardly "some random guy" anymore. If they don't rework it and leave it as flavorless as it is, then they are simply stupid. Ultimately, the biggest loser will be them. Competition is brewing, who will come out the victor? The longer I stay on these forums and the closer we get to the release date tells me that ED will likely get the bronze medal. Even Limit Theory looks more interesting at this point, that's kind of sad.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If you look at the thread, roughly half, possibly even more agree that the game is bland and uninteresting, so it's hardly "some random guy" anymore. If they don't rework it and leave it as flavorless as it is, then they are simply stupid. Ultimately, the biggest loser will be them. Competition is brewing, who will come out the victor. The longer I stay on these forums and the more closer we get to release date tells me that ED will likely get the bronze medal.

maybe you will be right... but, I have star citizen as well, and if you want to talk about the "heart" of the game if you will

at its heart imo (subjective) is the flight mechanics, and imo the flight mechanics of elite are immense, and better than any other space game i have played.

I still have hopes for star citizen, but compared to elite, its flight mechanics are IMO horrible, and RSI may throw millions of $ of eye candy on top of it, but, if at its core it does not change those flight mechanics, then, for me personally elite WILL be the better game.

but that is the great thing about choice......................

 

[Robert Maynard]

If you look at the thread, roughly half, possibly even more agree that the game is bland and uninteresting, so it's hardly "some random guy" anymore. If they don't rework it and leave it as flavorless as it is, then they are simply stupid. Ultimately, the biggest loser will be them. Competition is brewing, who will come out the victor? The longer I stay on these forums and the closer we get to the release date tells me that ED will likely get the bronze medal. Even Limit Theory looks more interesting at this point, that's kind of sad.

So, 30 or so of 60 or so participants in the thread agree and you think that something should be done? That's hardly a large proportion of the forum userbase, nor is it a large proportion of backers / buyers into the game itself....

 

[Interstellar]

maybe you will be right... but, I have star citizen as well, and if you want to talk about the "heart" of the game if you will

at its heart imo (subjective) is the flight mechanics, and imo the flight mechanics of elite are immense, and better than any other space game i have played.

I still have hopes for star citizen, but compared to elite, its flight mechanics are IMO horrible, and RSI may throw millions of $ of eye candy on top of it, but, if at its core it does not change those flight mechanics, then, for me personally elite WILL be the better game.

but that is the great thing about choice......................

The flight mechanics in ED are the best of any space sim ever. I will admit that much. The flight mechanics in SC aren't as bad as you make it seem, definitely better than X3.
While flight mechanics are important, the games are about trading, pirating, bounty hunting, and exploring, and ED is lackluster in this regard.
So would you rather play a game that pilots better, or play a game where the rest of gameplay is better? ED can't rely on that one crutch for long, it needs more.

So, 30 or so of 60 or so participants in the thread agree and you think that something should be done? That's hardly a large proportion of the forum userbase, nor is it a large proportion of backers / buyers into the game itself....

I'm sure that many of the backers that would have agreed with me are long gone and aren't even playing the game or visiting the forums at all anymore, either until release, or ever.
Meanwhile everyone that disagrees is still here, very much active on these forums, yet those people can still only manage to make up 50%(more like 40%) of the participants? Perhaps that should tell you something.

 

[Fromhell]

SC flight mechanics are IMO horrible, and RSI may throw millions of $ of eye candy on top of it.

you know two weeks ago I had agreed with that but with the latest update, not anymore. Now they really nailed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf9Ii_JOQk&lhd=1

and this is basically Elite with Flight Assist Off (Decoupled mode)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXtdSrGOtco&hd=1

really no winner or loser here imho

 

[Gibbonici]

The flight mechanics in ED are the best of any space sim ever. I will admit that much. The flight mechanics in SC aren't as bad as you make it seem, definitely better than X3.
While flight mechanics are important, the games are about trading, pirating, bounty hunting, and exploring, and ED is lackluster in this regard.
So would you rather play a game that pilots better, or play a game where the rest of gameplay is better? ED can't rely on that one crutch for long, it needs more.

You're actually onto a winner with this argument because the game is still in development and has a metric shedload of flesh to go on the bones, all meticulously described in the DDA. And then there are the plans for planetary landing, walking around and all that stuff that's been talked about in dev diaries and interviews etc. So in the end you're going to be proved right - it needs more and more will come.

It's just not there yet, and most of it won't be there until months and years after release - just like most other MMO-type games, or even single-player games on any large scale.

 

[Interstellar]

You're actually onto a winner with this argument because the game is still in development and has a metric shedload of flesh to go on the bones, all meticulously described in the DDA. And then there are the plans for planetary landing, walking around and all that stuff that's been talked about in dev diaries and interviews etc. So in the end you're going to be proved right - it needs more and more will come.

It's just not there yet, and most of it won't be there until months and years after release - just like most other MMO-type games, or even single-player games on any large scale.

I'll be fair and stick with the game for a few months and see how it progresses.

you know two weeks ago I had agreed with that but with the latest update, not anymore. Now they really nailed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf9Ii_JOQk&lhd=1

and this is basically Elite with Flight Assist Off (Decoupled mode)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXtdSrGOtco&hd=1

really no winner or loser here imho

SC is looking better by the minute with those updates. Gunna try out the new Arena Commander now.

Wow and I just saw the FPS demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cir3w-wIx9U&index=3&list=UUTeLqJq1mXUX5WWoNXLmOIA

Hate to say it (maybe I don't) but SC is looking like an ED killer. I thought FD needed a fire under their butt before, but now it needs a blowtorch.

 

[Fromhell]

Hate to say it (maybe I don't) but SC is looking like an ED killer. I thought FD needed a fire under their butt before, but now it needs a blowtorch.

oh my.. kill this kill that, just play both, or X3, or Rebirth.. or Eve.. or maybe all of them? Harddisks are cheap these days!
SC won´t be "out" before end of 2015, Elite will be out in a month or so- your choice