A Design Flaw: Trade Routes and Piracy

[Zephyr]

I've learned to live with the fact that players will group hop to avoid piracy. That's pretty much unavoidable by the way the game is currently designed. You know what I'm not okay with? Being able to completely avoid piracy in open mode, and I'm going to explain the mechanism through which this can easily be done.

The big problem is jump ranges. I know, I know, this has been discussed at length, but not in this way. Currently, there are a number of systems on the border of space. These are generally extraction systems with the occasionally refinery system. The problem with this, is the only ships that can get there are Lakons. Nothing else can jump far enough to reach them. "What ever, just buy a ship there" you may be saying. The problem is, these Extraction and Refinery systems do not sell ships! And all of them are out of range of even a Cobra with no modules equipped. So, that's right kids, there are systems where it is impossible to have combat ships. If you want to get very technical, I suppose it is possible that you could pirate in a lakon in these systems if you want... but for very obvious reasons this probably wouldn't be very effective.

So here's the crux of the issue. There are trade routes you can construct such that it is impossible to encounter a player in a combat ship, and that isn't cool. On a completely unrelated note, I think it would be hilarious to see a player pirating in a lakon. Let's make this happen people. I'm sure once a ship with adequate combat capabilities and decent jump ranges is introduced or when jump ranges are tweaked across the board, this will be fixed. But this is just an issue than I wanted people to be aware of.

 

[Uridium]

I can't see the final game being released where there are system jumps that are only doable by one single trader ship.

I would ticket this.

Good find!

 

[Jayce]

Good find, and I agree with you. But are you sure there are no more additional systems near those that are perhaps on the other side of the bubble?

 

[kanthoney]

Won't there be dark systems dotted around in between the known systems that'll enable you to break a long jump into shorter hops?

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Yeah at the moment there are all sorts of loopholes players are exploiting for their own advantage.

I'm sure as more features are added (like in your example better hyperspace engines for fighters), those loopholes will be closed one by one.

Players currently exploiting them will become complacent, then one day you'll turn up in your long range Viper and teach them the errors of their ways Zephyr

 

[Dante80]

2 things, very important.

1. The current jump ranges are limited due to the 55 system bubble we have. Expect at least doubling them as we move forward so as to match the FE2/FFE ranges, and also expect upgrades and modifications available for your drive train so that you can customize your ship to your liking.

2. Right now ships are sold in generic ports. In the release game new ships will only be sold at large shipyards, situated probably in industrial or high-tech systems. Generic ports could have a used ships market.

Hope that helps, cheers...C:

 

[Slugga]

I've learned to live with the fact that players will group hop to avoid piracy. That's pretty much unavoidable by the way the game is currently designed. You know what I'm not okay with? Being able to completely avoid piracy in open mode, and I'm going to explain the mechanism through which this can easily be done.

The big problem is jump ranges. I know, I know, this has been discussed at length, but not in this way. Currently, there are a number of systems on the border of space. These are generally extraction systems with the occasionally refinery system. The problem with this, is the only ships that can get there are Lakons. Nothing else can jump far enough to reach them. "What ever, just buy a ship there" you may be saying. The problem is, these Extraction and Refinery systems do not sell ships! And all of them are out of range of even a Cobra with no modules equipped. So, that's right kids, there are systems where it is impossible to have combat ships. If you want to get very technical, I suppose it is possible that you could pirate in a lakon in these systems if you want... but for very obvious reasons this probably wouldn't be very effective.

So here's the crux of the issue. There are trade routes you can construct such that it is impossible to encounter a player in a combat ship, and that isn't cool. On a completely unrelated note, I think it would be hilarious to see a player pirating in a lakon. Let's make this happen people. I'm sure once a ship with adequate combat capabilities and decent jump ranges is introduced or when jump ranges are tweaked across the board, this will be fixed. But this is just an issue than I wanted people to be aware of.

I have to agree with you, I'm a rather casual player (not by choice, but family and work keep it that way) and im starting to hit the point where I have just come to this conclusion. As I realised that even in my Hauler I feel like I'm on an Island of about 10 Star Systems.

My guess (I haven't read much into it yet) is because there are only 55 star systems at the moment, that this is a scaled environment. But if that is the case then there will also be issues with this in outer regions as well in the full sized galaxy. But by then as well there maybe some higher tier ships that may be able to reach these places. Which would then make sense as the rewards from outer regions may end up being higher.

I dunno, all speculative.

I do have faith. Dev's seem to listen and adjust accordingly in the past. but certainly agree that in its current standing it feels restrictive.

 

[Slugga]

wow in the time it took me to post, there were already so many replies.

Would love some drive and ship customisations. Honestly every time I hear about a feature or something new about Elite I get a little happier inside

Bring on the next 5 years

 

[Gibbonici]

There are loads more ships to be released yet, no doubt a longer range combat ship will be one of them.

But there'll always be systems that aren't reachable by all ships, and there'll be an art to balancing firepower and armour with jump range and cargo transportability when you rig your ship.

Depth, innit?

 

[Joe Spivey]

Actually, I'm not so sure this is a problem, at least as a glitch type problem. I mean, correct me if i'm wrong but surely there are bound to be systems, even whole islands of systems, that will be out of range of the smaller combat class of ships. If a pirate wants to exploit the traders in these areas he is just going to have to invest in a bigger class of ship, say an Anaconda?

It's like if I was a coastal pirate around Argentina and I wanted to go for the lucrative whale oil cargos of South Georgia. I would need a bigger ship just to get there but once there I would have a field day filling my bigger hold before heading back home.

 

[technome]

I've learned to live with the fact that players will group hop to avoid piracy. That's pretty much unavoidable by the way the game is currently designed. You know what I'm not okay with? Being able to completely avoid piracy in open mode, and I'm going to explain the mechanism through which this can easily be done.

The big problem is jump ranges. I know, I know, this has been discussed at length, but not in this way. Currently, there are a number of systems on the border of space. These are generally extraction systems with the occasionally refinery system. The problem with this, is the only ships that can get there are Lakons. Nothing else can jump far enough to reach them. "What ever, just buy a ship there" you may be saying. The problem is, these Extraction and Refinery systems do not sell ships! And all of them are out of range of even a Cobra with no modules equipped. So, that's right kids, there are systems where it is impossible to have combat ships. If you want to get very technical, I suppose it is possible that you could pirate in a lakon in these systems if you want... but for very obvious reasons this probably wouldn't be very effective.

So here's the crux of the issue. There are trade routes you can construct such that it is impossible to encounter a player in a combat ship, and that isn't cool. On a completely unrelated note, I think it would be hilarious to see a player pirating in a lakon. Let's make this happen people. I'm sure once a ship with adequate combat capabilities and decent jump ranges is introduced or when jump ranges are tweaked across the board, this will be fixed. But this is just an issue than I wanted people to be aware of.

You're completely wrong. It's trivially easy to get a Viper to pretty much any system in the beta.

I'm not going to tell you how, though, because I despise your playstyle with a passion.

*EDIT* Thanks for the neg rep. I'll treasure it.

 

[Zephyr]

You're completely wrong. It's trivially easy to get a Viper to pretty much any system in the beta.

I'm not going to tell you how, though, because I despise your playstyle with a passion.

I wasn't aware that there was a glitch to get around jump-distances. I'd be interested to hear, but you don't seem like the cooperative type. More of the "Captain who goes down with his ship" type

 

[technome]

I wasn't aware that there was a glitch to get around jump-distances. I'd be interested to hear, but you don't seem like the cooperative type. More of the "Captain who goes down with his ship" type

No glitch. Pure gameplay.

 

[Kulin]

So here's the crux of the issue. There are trade routes you can construct such that it is impossible to encounter a player in a combat ship, and that isn't cool. On a completely unrelated note, I think it would be hilarious to see a player pirating in a lakon. Let's make this happen people. I'm sure once a ship with adequate combat capabilities and decent jump ranges is introduced or when jump ranges are tweaked across the board, this will be fixed. But this is just an issue than I wanted people to be aware of.

I'm not sure why we need to discuss this topic. We all know there will be better engines to buy with bigger jump ranges. This is going to solve your problem.

 

[Zephyr]

I'm not sure why we need to discuss this topic. We all know there will be better engines to buy with bigger jump ranges. This is going to solve your problem.

The issue is, even with bigger engines and a scaled up universe, the same thing could problem could arise. Just want to make sure that doesn't happen ^^

 

[Milky82]

The issue is, even with bigger engines and a scaled up universe, the same thing could problem could arise. Just want to make sure that doesn't happen ^^

Face it a short range viper type ship is never going to be able to reach out as far as you seem to want to go. An Asp may.

Your trying to find problems that will be addressed by the inclusion of new features and ships before they have been added to the final release.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

Oh dear .. Another topic about something that has been discussed umpteen times.... Getting boring now ..

Come release you will be able to use ANY type of ship in ANY system, as you will be able to own multiple ships and get them shipped to wherever you are.

There may be even a possibility of storing a small ship inside a big ship as well.

You know starting your post headline with 'A Design Flaw' isn't going to win you any friends, its a little confrontational, and tbh I suspect quite condescending to the FD team.

 

[Zephyr]

Oh dear .. Another topic about something that has been discussed umpteen times.... Getting boring now ..

Come release you will be able to use ANY type of ship in ANY system, as you will be able to own multiple ships and get them shipped to wherever you are.

There may be even a possibility of storing a small ship inside a big ship as well.

You know starting your post headline with 'A Design Flaw' isn't going to win you any friends, its a little confrontational, and tbh I suspect quite condescending to the FD team.

It's a small issue that people need to be aware of. Sorry? I've read the threads, this specifically hasn't been discussed, people have just been complaining about jump distances. I have the utmost respect for FD and I'm sure it's just a minor issue that they overlooked. I'm not insulting their competence in any way. I never read anywhere that you can have "any ship any where", and that's why I made this thread.

 

[Dante80]

Any and every feedback is both viable and needed. Having a constructive tone helps, I don't really see Zephyr not doing that though.

Keep shooting, the goal here is to provide as much feedback as possible so that FDEV can do their job correctly and deliver in spades what all of us have been waiting for (for more than 15 years btw).

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

It's a small issue that people need to be aware of. Sorry? I've read the threads, this specifically hasn't been discussed, people have just been complaining about jump distances. I have the utmost respect for FD and I'm sure it's just a minor issue that they overlooked. I'm not insulting their competence in any way. I never read anywhere that you can have "any ship any where", and that's why I made this thread.

Go read the DDF archive ...

Don't worry about it, within a couple of days another thread will be posted about the exact same thing.