A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

goemon

goemon
Sentenza said:
How much is trade supposed to have effect?

I am testing effects of trade after the last fix, so I found a few remote systems with no traffic and very little population - one of them has just 23 people living in it! - and tried selling a single load of 250t in various combination. No effect. Now, 250t might not be much but in a system so microscopic I expected at least some movement, even if just 0.1%. Anyone know how it was before?
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the last test i did months ago:

population: 1600
traffic: 1 (me)

224T, high demand, 4 transactions - 4 commodities
total profit: 75394 cr

influence + (of the market controlling faction) = 2%

___

without exact data at hand, so more anecdotal eveidence, we have pushed a system heavily by trade before the last patch.

as the test mentioned above did generate more than one transactions, i would have expected your test showing ~0,5-1% influence difference.

i assume you checked the local news to make sure the market controlling factions have not been in a state where trade would have no effect?
 

Sentenza

Sentenza
Schlack said:
That is slightly disconcerting. What was the profit margin?
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About 600cr/ton, selling foods in a refinery...

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goemon said:
the last test i did months ago:

population: 1600
traffic: 1 (me)

224T, high demand, 4 transactions - 4 commodities
total profit: 75394 cr

influence + (of the market controlling faction) = 2%

___

without exact data at hand, so more anecdotal eveidence, we have pushed a system heavily by trade before the last patch.

as the test mentioned above did generate more than one transactions, i would have expected your test showing ~0,5-1% influence difference.

i assume you checked the local news to make sure the market controlling factions have not been in a state where trade would have no effect?
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Um, the faction is in three close systems and was in state NONE in all three, so I did not check the detailed news. Anyway I will recheck when I get back in the game.
 

Walter2

Walter2
Schlack said:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...n-cleared-on-start-of-war-no-recovering-state

We had a disappearing expansion! It didn't fire, is not pending and is not recovering. Just went Poof.

Anyone experience anything similar recently?
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No, but I am seeing states go active that were never pending.

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smiths121 said:
Normally the tick is around 18:00 UCS at the moment. Does anyone know what time the tick was yesterday, as to my reckoning that is 14 hours after when I visited each body in system?n
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I had to wait until 19:55 IGT for my last figure to reliably update yesterday, but the first had gone over by 19:25.
 
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Abil Midena

Abil Midena
IMO...

The way black markets should work is like, well, how black markets work. People buy/sell all kinds of stuff on the black market, not just drugs/guns. They use it to fence stolen stuff. That has the effect of the regular market prices changing so there is less profit/use. The regular market tanks.

Couldn't they implement that in ED by adjusting the regular market prices to reduce the difference from market avg (when bm trading takes place)? System security should also take a hit, as well as maybe lockdown.

The only impact to inf would be changes to inf gain/loss according to the effects needed for the state they are in. Simply lowering inf when black market activity occurs is silly.
 

Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
smiths121 said:
Haha, they are there now in both open and solo. Guess I was being impatient. Off to die in my Viper IV.
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CZ can be around different bodies in a system at different times. You need to be within 1,000ls of a CZ for it to be visible, so sometimes you have to spend a while looking for one. The Ethgreze system isn't all that large IIRC, so CZ should be fairly easy to find.

Can you do me a favour?
Next time you drop into Bloch Station, take a look at how many Ethgreze Tea Buds are offered for sale. I think the conflict will lower the allocation, but doesn't hurt to check.
 

Sentenza

Sentenza
Sentenza said:
About 600cr/ton, selling foods in a refinery...

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Um, the faction is in three close systems and was in state NONE in all three, so I did not check the detailed news. Anyway I will recheck when I get back in the game.
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Oh, turned out I missed a system. Good, I am relieved :)
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Jane Turner

Starwolfe

S
Since the server-side patch for single transactions I have been noticing massive changes to the influence when larger-value missions are being completed.

Anyone else seeing the same effects?
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Starwolfe said:
Since the server-side patch for single transactions I have been noticing massive changes to the influence when larger-value missions are being completed.

Anyone else seeing the same effects?
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When was this patch? I don't recall hearing anything about that, though my head has been in the ruins.

On an aside... can someone remind me how long expansion pending should last? I swear this one's been going longer than usual, and I have an outbreak pending on top of that (which in itself is interesting, considering some aspects)
 

SaliVader

SaliVader
Jmanis said:
When was this patch? I don't recall hearing anything about that, though my head has been in the ruins.

On an aside... can someone remind me how long expansion pending should last? I swear this one's been going longer than usual, and I have an outbreak pending on top of that (which in itself is interesting, considering some aspects)
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EDIT: I now see you said pending. Expansions are always pending for 5 days before firing.
 
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CMDR pollycough

CMDR pollycough

Jmanis

Jmanis
SaliVader said:
EDIT: I now see you said pending. Expansions are always pending for 5 days before firing.
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CMDR pollycough said:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/324764-Server-update.

Pending Expansion is normally 5 days
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Thanks, I forgot to check before work this morning and turns out expansion had triggered, which means it's about right.

Interestingly, Outbreak is still pending. I wonder if it will short-cut the expansion...

Edit: Just read the server update... while I doubt the includes preservation of diverse trading effects, which is a shame, I wonder if it also correctly counts volume/profit margins now. I have a network of diverse economies under my faction's control now, and since that patch went live it's fair to say there's been a significant steady increase across all systems. This is potentially better than good news.
 
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Sentenza

Sentenza
Starwolfe said:
Since the server-side patch for single transactions I have been noticing massive changes to the influence when larger-value missions are being completed.

Anyone else seeing the same effects?
Click to expand...

Can you be more specific? You mean that missions with higher pay appear to have more impact?
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Jane Turner
Starwolfe said:
Since the server-side patch for single transactions I have been noticing massive changes to the influence when larger-value missions are being completed.

Anyone else seeing the same effects?
Click to expand...

We have seen 2nd hand reports of a significantly above cap rise twice (>20% in a 6 million pop) when a faction were defending their arses off against a BGS attack of murder/piracy. They ran missions and traded for their lives, so hard to know what the cause was. We are currently musing as to how. One theory was because the -ve cap was breached it also removed the +ve one. Wild speculation at present but the observation stands. On refection it might have been a deliberate quid quo pro for making trading harder to use as a defence... or a mistake.

We tend to do just enough effort to hit the cap so of course have not seen an effect!
 
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Starwolfe

S
Sentenza said:
Can you be more specific? You mean that missions with higher pay appear to have more impact?
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Yes.

One system I observed, about 50k population had two drastically different influence changes for varying mission values.

I am waiting to confirm a second test, but in a system with Famine (still active) one day with one low-value courier mission yielded .6% influence change, and another day with two donation missions of a million and 575k yielded 4.1%.

EDIT:

The next day showed 2% increase with 2 deliveries, one 516k and the other 643k. So I am seeing some variables with the the value of the missions affecting the influence changes, but I don't have enough proof still - it appears donations have higher base weight than the delivery or courier, so I need more tests if it is mission type or the mission value.
 
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Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
I've been to the Crom system a few times lately and I think the commodity market is completly screwed up. It's an anarchy controlled outpost, but looking at the commodity market you couldn't tell. There used to be a large supply of slaves for sale, plus a demand for narcotics. It should also have a rare good, Crom Silver Fesh. However, none of these are mentioned in the market at all. It might as well be a normal extraction outpost controlled by a bunch of carebears, not a pirate faction base.

Checking a station in another system controlled by the Crom Silver Boys, it too is borked. Just shows as a vanilla agricultural station. No supply or narcotics, no demand for slaves.

I've raised a bug report, but no answers as yet.

When I first noticed, Crom was recovering from an outbreak. A couple of days ago, Crom was pending lockdown. AFAIK these states (at least while pending or recovery) shouldn't affect the market. The rare good dissapeared a couple of months ago when the Silver Boys were also pending lockdown. I raised a bug report then as well, the rare good was reinstated and the lockdown pending removed.
 

Abil Midena

Abil Midena
I'm looking for a little clarity on states and systems.

If a minor faction is in several systems, and has, say, a 'pending famine' or 'pending outbreak', how do you tell which system it's actually happening in? I've seen systems in outbreak that don't spawn 'seeking meds', so that's not always the indicator.

I'm asking because I'm not sure how to best reduce the length of time spent in the state. For example, if a faction is in outbreak, the way to keep the duration low, or to a minimum, is to sell meds there. Can you just sell meds in every system the faction is in? If you have to sell them in the system that actually spawned the outbreak, how do you know which one it is?

Same question for missions...I've seen a faction in 'expansion', and I know what system it's expanding from due to the news feed, but I saw missions that said "help the expansion effort by...." in multiple systems. Do missions that will reduce the expansion/famine/outbreak state active time have to be run from a specific system (i.e the system the state actually originated/exists in)?

War and civil war is the one that is clear cut. No questions there. I'm just not so sure about the other states.
 

goemon

goemon
Abil Midena said:
I'm looking for a little clarity on states and systems.

If a minor faction is in several systems, and has, say, a 'pending famine' or 'pending outbreak', how do you tell which system it's actually happening in? I've seen systems in outbreak that don't spawn 'seeking meds', so that's not always the indicator.

I'm asking because I'm not sure how to best reduce the length of time spent in the state. For example, if a faction is in outbreak, the way to keep the duration low, or to a minimum, is to sell meds there. Can you just sell meds in every system the faction is in? If you have to sell them in the system that actually spawned the outbreak, how do you know which one it is?

Same question for missions...I've seen a faction in 'expansion', and I know what system it's expanding from due to the news feed, but I saw missions that said "help the expansion effort by...." in multiple systems. Do missions that will reduce the expansion/famine/outbreak state active time have to be run from a specific system (i.e the system the state actually originated/exists in)?

War and civil war is the one that is clear cut. No questions there. I'm just not so sure about the other states.
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- i don't think anybody can answer most of your questions. there are people who believe, that each system has its own statebucket, even if the state is factionwide - and others who think that statebuckets are faction wide. there are good reasons for both assumptions. the same goes for countering the state - if it matters where you fight a bust for exampel or not. i have not seen any test beside anecdotal evidence on it, and for many states it is very difficult to test for several reasons.

- as for missions, especially expansion missions, those are flavour text only.
 

Starwolfe

S
If you look up the Faction Status in a station it will tell you the location of most major events.

Economic states however are faction-wide and do not discriminate for location. So a Boom or Outbreak will show in any system that faction is present in.


To aid by that trading effort you will need to trade to a Market that faction is in control of - if they are not in control of a station with a market you could aid by doing missions. Sometimes you will run across other factions in nearby systems that will offer relief missions that will help reduce the duration I think. I am not 100% certain however, as the tooltip displays reducing the chance of even when it is a mission to aid in the faction's plight.
 
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