A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Starwolfe]

Is that seriously what support said?

That can't possibly be true for Massacre Missions.

I have witnessed factions that have had virtually no support hand out missions like candy, and factions that had been actively backed up for weeks hand out crap.

I am not accepting that as an answer on that regard at all.

 

[_trent_]

That's what they told me. I'm not particularly satisfied with the explanations given either but the war should be done in a couple more days and my hope is when that clears then things will go back to normal for our faction.

 

[goemon]

It turns out that the reason we don't have any massacre missions (or any other war related missions) is because our faction cannot afford to pay for player intervention.

that's very interesting. I'd be interested about the concrete text/sentence.

just watching a system, where the local feudal faction gives out massacre missions, but the federal democratic faction which is present in 3 or 4 systems does not.

 

[ShimEnki]

Three questions if I may

1) If I buy goods from one station and sell them for a profit at another, do both stations gain influence boost? If not then who?

2) Does trade offer influence via profits or per transaction only? If via profits is this binary in nature or is there a certain amount of profit that triggers the bgs to provide the faction controller with that ++ influence?

3) Same question as above re trade for bounty hunting.

Thanks

Oh, and does merely buying an item from a station help that station regardless if it is sold elsewhere?

 

[Starwolfe]

Three questions if I may

1) If I buy goods from one station and sell them for a profit at another, do both stations gain influence boost? If not then who?

2) Does trade offer influence via profits or per transaction only? If via profits is this binary in nature or is there a certain amount of profit that triggers the bgs to provide the faction controller with that ++ influence?

3) Same question as above re trade for bounty hunting.

Thanks

Oh, and does merely buying an item from a station help that station regardless if it is sold elsewhere?

1) From my observations it appears only the station the goods are sold at gains influence. Honestly, i have not done the extensive testing to prove it yet...

2) The recent patch makes it lean more on profits over items it seems. I need some confirmation on this myself still.

3) Bounties are split into two parts; Superpower Bounties like Alliance, Fed and Empire help the owner of the station they are handed in. The specific Minor Faction bouty helps the specific faction regardless of where it is handed in... with an exception; Sin dealers, the Interstellar Contacts in Low Security does not affect influence.

Murder reduces influence, however killing a Wanted Ship does not. Your reputation typically takes a light hit however, but in most cases the bounty handed in counters it - provided there is a bounty for that faction of course.

 

[ShimEnki]

1) From my observations it appears only the station the goods are sold at gains influence. Honestly, i have not done the extensive testing to prove it yet...

2) The recent patch makes it lean more on profits over items it seems. I need some confirmation on this myself still.

3) Bounties are split into two parts; Superpower Bounties like Alliance, Fed and Empire help the owner of the station they are handed in. The specific Minor Faction bouty helps the specific faction regardless of where it is handed in... with an exception; Sin dealers, the Interstellar Contacts in Low Security does not affect influence.

Murder reduces influence, however killing a Wanted Ship does not. Your reputation typically takes a light hit however, but in most cases the bounty handed in counters it - provided there is a bounty for that faction of course.

Thanks CMDR, appreciated!

 

[goemon]

Three questions if I may

1) If I buy goods from one station and sell them for a profit at another, do both stations gain influence boost? If not then who?

2) Does trade offer influence via profits or per transaction only? If via profits is this binary in nature or is there a certain amount of profit that triggers the bgs to provide the faction controller with that ++ influence?

3) Same question as above re trade for bounty hunting.

Thanks

Oh, and does merely buying an item from a station help that station regardless if it is sold elsewhere?

1) From my observations it appears only the station the goods are sold at gains influence. Honestly, i have not done the extensive testing to prove it yet...

2) The recent patch makes it lean more on profits over items it seems. I need some confirmation on this myself still.

3) Bounties are split into two parts; Superpower Bounties like Alliance, Fed and Empire help the owner of the station they are handed in. The specific Minor Faction bouty helps the specific faction regardless of where it is handed in... with an exception; Sin dealers, the Interstellar Contacts in Low Security does not affect influence.

Murder reduces influence, however killing a Wanted Ship does not. Your reputation typically takes a light hit however, but in most cases the bounty handed in counters it - provided there is a bounty for that faction of course.

to add: while trade leans more towards profit, than transactions - maybe besides the workaround of different commodities being sold -, influence increase of bounty transactions depends much much more (if not solely) on transactions. basically cashing in 2 times a 20K CR bounty has double the effect of cashing in a 3,5 mio bounty claim once.

 

[ShimEnki]

to add: while trade leans more towards profit, than transactions - maybe besides the workaround of different commodities being sold -, influence increase of bounty transactions depends much much more (if not solely) on transactions. basically cashing in 2 times a 20K CR bounty has double the effect of cashing in a 3,5 mio bounty claim once.

Thanks cmdr;

Does selling items that specifically end unwanted states such as meds for outbreak but in a proactive way, help prevent these states or do these items only engage this after the state has occurred? I guess no one can really know this unless a FD dev breaks silence.

Does buying biowaste from a non agri system help prevent outbreak?

Do you believe that all of these aspects of the bgs will step into the full light of day for one and all via clear -rubber meets the road type of info from a dev that truly knows? For instance, when you said, trade leans more heavily on profits...but to exactly what amount and what amount do transactions impact influence. The bgs is close to if not the spinal core of this game and for all these aspects to remain blurry at best is beyond frustrating and repels desire to engage it

 

[goemon]

Thanks cmdr;

Does selling items that specifically end unwanted states such as meds for outbreak but in a proactive way, help prevent these states or do these items only engage this after the state has occurred? I guess no one can really know this unless a FD dev breaks silence.

Does buying biowaste from a non agri system help prevent outbreak?

Do you believe that all of these aspects of the bgs will step into the full light of day for one and all via clear -rubber meets the road type of info from a dev that truly knows? For instance, when you said, trade leans more heavily on profits...but to exactly what amount and what amount do transactions impact influence. The bgs is close to if not the spinal core of this game and for all these aspects to remain blurry at best is beyond frustrating and repels desire to engage it

- selling medicines should empty the outbreak bucket, whether the state is active or not; same goes for food and famine buckets - all tables provided by the devs back that

- devs have also repeatedly confirmed, that the BGS is a blackbox, and will remain being one.

there are people who dislike that to some extend (me for exampel), and other who like it for the very reason.

but if you can't make your peace with the BGS being a blackbox, also with it silently changing rules between patches; with running your own tests, sharing your experiences, testing theories, working out never confirmed "rules" and mechanics - you better don't play the BGS.

 

[ShimEnki]

- selling medicines should empty the outbreak bucket, whether the state is active or not; same goes for food and famine buckets - all tables provided by the devs back that

- devs have also repeatedly confirmed, that the BGS is a blackbox, and will remain being one.

there are people who dislike that to some extend (me for exampel), and other who like it for the very reason.

but if you can't make your peace with the BGS being a blackbox, also with it silently changing rules between patches; with running your own tests, sharing your experiences, testing theories, working out never confirmed "rules" and mechanics - you better don't play the BGS.

I would imagine those with a couple of hours to play with the focused desire to make the best contribution possible would agree with us re the blackness of the FD box's---especially those that weather 2 hours of
CZ or Res sites thinking that they will offer their group/faction the best by handing in a large bounty/bonds...when they could have offered the same impact in about 8 mins and one eagle kill.

Re testing and sharing--that's funny, especially when the gears inside this black box changes at a whim without notice.

There's a adjective for this thinking re the black box and all that comes out of it and it isn't all that positive--I imagine this type of thinking will inject itself in this new game they announced ye?

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

, however killing a Wanted Ship does not.

I'm not convinced about this. But I hope you are right.

Criminal factions seem to take quite a hit from being slaughtered in RES. Maybe this is just the effect of the bounties being cashed in for other factions.
It will be interesting to see what the changes to murder and bounties in 2.3 do to this.

 

[Starwolfe]

I'm not convinced about this. But I hope you are right.

Criminal factions seem to take quite a hit from being slaughtered in RES. Maybe this is just the effect of the bounties being cashed in for other factions.
It will be interesting to see what the changes to murder and bounties in 2.3 do to this.

That aspect I have done extremely extensive tests on, and I can say for certainty that killing Wanted ships does not affect Influence loss for the faction - on its own.

The effect in hunting sites is caused by the handing in of bounties or missions done for other factions.


Because anarchy groups does not have bounties of any fashion their only influence gains are through either sales at their stations or missions done for them.
Superpower bounties such as Fed/Alliance/Empire sold at stations they control can help them, but handing in bounties for other factions does not as they remain specific for the faction.

 

[goemon]

That aspect I have done extremely extensive tests on, and I can say for certainty that killing Wanted ships does not affect Influence loss for the faction - on its own.

my own test, nearby a year ago, had clearly the result of shooting wanted ships without cashing in bounties resulted in an influence loss.

in that small population system, killing 15 wanted ships of only 1 faction resulted in 0,4% influence loss, without any other trafiic or activity in system (repeated twice). that very minor influence loss could have been easily countered by a single bounty transaction for the faction.

test can be found here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=3721127&viewfull=1#post3721127

did you conduct a newer test in a no traffic system without cashing in bounties, and killing only ships of 1 faction?

 

[Starwolfe]

my own test, nearby a year ago, had clearly the result of shooting wanted ships without cashing in bounties resulted in an influence loss.

in that small population system, killing 15 wanted ships of only 1 faction resulted in 0,4% influence loss, without any other trafiic or activity in system (repeated twice). that very minor influence loss could have been easily countered by a single bounty transaction for the faction.

test can be found here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=3721127&viewfull=1#post3721127

did you conduct a newer test in a no traffic system without cashing in bounties, and killing only ships of 1 faction?

Yes, and repeatedly.

In my area the local traffic is basically me - occasionally the stray Asp ex.

While tracking influence for factions as I pass through. Delivering missions I occasionally get ambushed by wanted targets - of which I don't cash the bounty in those systems typically. Influence remains stable and not moving.

However the most I have done is probably a handful kills in the usual case lately for that.


The next best is my area does have a good Haz res I use for influence on occasion. Killing targets there the influence change is accurate with the bounties handed in. Superpower and Faction acting as I noted - while those not handed in loose slightly, much like missions. The loss noted is equally spread, not targeted like one would expect since its the anarchy group I shoot almost all the time.


I could repeat it again in a significantly more controlled manner - I do have access to several unused res sites in other systems and could repeat the larger kills you did.

 

[goemon]

Yes, and repeatedly.

In my area the local traffic is basically me - occasionally the stray Asp ex.

While tracking influence for factions as I pass through. Delivering missions I occasionally get ambushed by wanted targets - of which I don't cash the bounty in those systems typically. Influence remains stable and not moving.

However the most I have done is probably a handful kills in the usual case lately for that.


The next best is my area does have a good Haz res I use for influence on occasion. Killing targets there the influence change is accurate with the bounties handed in. Superpower and Faction acting as I noted - while those not handed in loose slightly, much like missions. The loss noted is equally spread, not targeted like one would expect since its the anarchy group I shoot almost all the time.


I could repeat it again in a significantly more controlled manner - I do have access to several unused res sites in other systems and could repeat the larger kills you did.

as said - if you look at the numbers --- that system was a 2 faction system, which was still possible back then. 15 kills, 0,4% influence loss - in a <2000 population system. i guess the effect is really, really minor - it would be great, if you could repeat in a similar manner (shooting only ships of 1 faction)!

might be that FDEV have changed it since then, and it would be good to know ... currently missing the time myself to do such testing :-/

 

[Starwolfe]

as said - if you look at the numbers --- that system was a 2 faction system, which was still possible back then. 15 kills, 0,4% influence loss - in a <2000 population system. i guess the effect is really, really minor - it would be great, if you could repeat in a similar manner (shooting only ships of 1 faction)!

might be that FDEV have changed it since then, and it would be good to know ... currently missing the time myself to do such testing :-/

Well, I have a target system I will work with. Routinely low traffic, 1,200 population with 3 factions - so we'll see.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

might be that FDEV have changed it since then, and it would be good to know ... currently missing the time myself to do such testing :-/

My faction is doing alright without me ATM, so I'll head out somewhere quiet and do some testing. I'll try and find at least two systems to test in, one anarchy controlled, one not. Spend a couple of days just killing one faction's ships without cashing in bounties and see what happens.

 

[Starwolfe]

Test system report for Wanted kills;

I slaughtered somewhere between 20-30 Wanted ships within the res sites in the test system.

System population; 1,286
Faction A; 64%
Faction B; 24.8%
Faction C; 11.2%

Influence did not change from cycle tick.
Reputation with Faction B dropped from Allied to Friendly due to kills and not handing in bounties. I managed to recover influence once I did hand them in today.
Bounties worth approximately 3.3 million were turned in from the work.
Influence remained stable otherwise, and a Pending Famine state for Faction A went live today.

I have another plan I need to focus on today, but will continue the harassment in this system for a time and see if anything happens.

 

[goemon]

Test system report for Wanted kills;

I slaughtered somewhere between 20-30 Wanted ships within the res sites in the test system.

System population; 1,286
Faction A; 64%
Faction B; 24.8%
Faction C; 11.2%

Influence did not change from cycle tick.
Reputation with Faction B dropped from Allied to Friendly due to kills and not handing in bounties. I managed to recover influence once I did hand them in today.
Bounties worth approximately 3.3 million were turned in from the work.
Influence remained stable otherwise, and a Pending Famine state for Faction A went live today.

I have another plan I need to focus on today, but will continue the harassment in this system for a time and see if anything happens.

interesting, and thanks for sharing! question - did you focussed on shooting only ships of 1 faction, or did you shoot wanted ships of all factions?

 

[Starwolfe]

interesting, and thanks for sharing! question - did you focussed on shooting only ships of 1 faction, or did you shoot wanted ships of all factions?

At first was focusing on Faction B and C, but had cargo during one trip and got stuck shooting a wing from A. I'll try a more focused approach next time, but as stated kind of busy today. lol