A Kickstarters thoughts on how to Fix Elite.

[FX2K]

Well if my NPC piloted my ship, I would expect interdictions.. and probably expect them to fail to evade it more, maybe some RNG clumsyness (eek), certainly not immune like Apex.

Low level NPC's I would expect to be a bit useless, higher level / higher paid, not so useless but not OP.
As for the set and go to bed.. well limit the plotting range allowed when NPC's are flying or limit the max jumps before they require "ongoing instructions" to continue.

Fast travel, no. Not asking for fast travel in the slightest, although teleportation is in-game too

Edit: P.S Wasn't trying to change your mind -VR- Max Factor, just genuinely curious as to why you thought it didn't sound right, when existing mechanics include related things.

 

[Sylow]

Also it's highly unlikely you will get interdicted with an empty cargo bay. I don't think you can transport your ship with cargo in it.

Why not? I have not tried yet, but would bet it is possible. The pre-Odyssey protection against using ship transport to transport untouchable cargo was that you could not store a ship with cargo on board. With Apex, you do not store your ship. You merely leave it. I very much doubt that FD has implemented a check, which stops you to call a ship to your position when it has cargo on board.

Sidenote: I am amused that nobody yet seems to have noticed that there is no way out of a ground station without having to use a spaceship in some way. You can fly away, you can enter your spaceship and deploy your SRV, but you can't just go to an airlock and walk out. At the same time, i very well see why this option would be bad: you could travel many LY by Apex, go to a ground site, walk outside and recall your ship to your position. Based on existing mechanics, your ship would travel hundreds of LY and land next to you within a few seconds.

And on the speed thing: are you sure? I haven't used Apex too much. But my impression was that neither the multi-jump routine nor the supercruise routine was much slower than what a player can do. But a player can indeed mess up and take much longer. Unless your calculation also includes the time it takes to have your ship delivered. Then indeed flying directly is faster.

All in all, my enthusisasm for Apex is, uh... limited. Nobody ever asked for it, nobody wanted it, it definitely takes more away from the game than it adds. Yet we absolutely had to have it. Now it's here to stay.

And returning to where we actually came from: i really don't see anything wrong in having your NPC do the same "auto-flight" for you like Apex does, if you remain interdictable. It would merely take something bad and unnecessary and turn it into a somewhat useful convenience feature. You'd still be well advised to keep an eye on what is going on, due to the protection being removed. Also, i would not use it. The one thing which kept me in the game for years if the joy of flying the ships, despite all the nonsense with engineers and so on. But other people might enjoy other things. Some even claim that they enjoy parts of Odyssey, although i have no idea how that could be. Thus providing this option for players who would like to use it seems reasonable to me.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Fix the economic sim. We've got personal weapons selling 175,000 credits individually, while as a commodity they for 3000 credits per ton. A Sidewinder sells for 30,000 credit, while long-range Apex ride charges over 10,000 per jump. A 6.4 MW power generator sells for about 2000 credits, while a 12 MW one sells for nearly half a million. Everywhere you look, ship and component are scaled exponentially in price, for linear gains in capabilities. Starving colonies desperate for food are willing to spend millions of credits to buy gemstones.

This game would be so much better if its economy wasn't so nonsensical. It wasn't always this bad, but Frontier's continued appeasement of the Veruca Salts of this community has made a minor issue into something completely borked.

 

[Sylow]

A 6.4 MW power generator sells for about 2000 credits, while a 12 MW one sells for nearly half a million. Everywhere you look, ship and component are scaled exponentially in price, for linear gains in capabilities.

This one part can often be observed in RL, too. Just a random example, SSDs. You can get a 2 TB SSD by now for like 150 Euros, give and take a little. If you want one with 4 TB capacity, you pay like 500 Euros and more. Double capacity, well over double the price. And you can find many other examples like that.

So within spaceships and their components, the price scaling might be high, but not unheard of in RL. That being said, you are quite right that the relationship of prices outside and inside Odyssey is completely out of whack. Yes, we have massive mudflation, credits are easy to come by since many years... yet i personally also think that this is no good reason to now make such crazy prices for personal equipment. (Which still in the end does not matter at all. ) The actual currenty by now is engineering materials, credits are merely decorational and ground equipment should, at least in the non-engineered versions, cost just a few credits a piece.

It would not do any further damage, while keeping prices more consistent and thus the world a little bit more believeable.

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Apart from making it work. Some things that might make me happy. I’m easily pleased.

Emotes
Please.

Taxi and police jobs
I’m up for that.

Planets
Fix the planet stamping with more ‘stamps’ and variation. Put some gross solid noise into other axes to help with verticals. Get some colours in to the planets to add some flavour. I’m assuming we have no tectonic moons to land on.

Settlements
Give the settlements some more integration into the surfaces with more disturbance to the ground and some vehicular elements ( they don’t t need to move )

Cabins / interiors
At least let us walk up and down the stairs / lift to the cabin.

NPC
AI crew to come with us, interact, and follow some orders.

SRV
A couple more seats would be nice

Concourse and stations
A couple more areas to visit in the stations so we can see the stars. Travel through the station interior on a train - this would help prepare for cities and limited interaction with populated planets as a modular element.

Space elevators ( maybe )
Just to park on a world. This would prepare for some orbital interaction with earth like worlds

Anyways - Everyone else had a list, mine not so long

 

[Sapient6]

Fix the economic sim. We've got personal weapons selling 175,000 credits individually, while as a commodity they for 3000 credits per ton.

Not addressing your main point, but the gun thing has been on my mind a lot (in part because I'm playing and enjoying Odyssey a bunch). This could have been alleviated just by tweaking a few tiny things:

1. Include a couple lower tiers of weapons (personal and military?). Slightly lower damage, cheap as dirt, uninteresting to look at, can't be upgraded, can't be engineered. I can see why Frontier didn't do this--nobody would buy them--but it would answer Questions.
   1. OR, the retcon path: rename commodities like Personal Weapons to Personal Weapon Components.
2. Make rank 1 of the normal tier of weapons are also dramatically cheaper.
3. Other ranks of weapons stay at the price they are. Requires a bunch of suspension of disbelief, but that is a fact of life in video games that have any amount of arcadiness about them.

To get a better fix around the economics of guns and other on-foot equipment, while maintaining any semblance of progression at all, I think would only have been possible if guns and ships were introduced in the opposite order and freewinders weren't a thing. But that would be an entirely different game, and as you deftly pointed out, Odyssey didn't really invent this bizarre economy. It just fattened it up and put a blinding spotlight on it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Why not? I have not tried yet, but would bet it is possible. The pre-Odyssey protection against using ship transport to transport untouchable cargo was that you could not store a ship with cargo on board. With Apex, you do not store your ship. You merely leave it. I very much doubt that FD has implemented a check, which stops you to call a ship to your position when it has cargo on board.

I'll have to check this, but I'll be surprised if you can transfer it.

Sidenote: I am amused that nobody yet seems to have noticed that there is no way out of a ground station without having to use a spaceship in some way. You can fly away, you can enter your spaceship and deploy your SRV, but you can't just go to an airlock and walk out. At the same time, i very well see why this option would be bad: you could travel many LY by Apex, go to a ground site, walk outside and recall your ship to your position. Based on existing mechanics, your ship would travel hundreds of LY and land next to you within a few seconds.

Can you do this? You can call an apex taxi, but I'm not so sure you can call your own ship if it's in another system. Again something that needs checking.

And on the speed thing: are you sure? I haven't used Apex too much. But my impression was that neither the multi-jump routine nor the supercruise routine was much slower than what a player can do. But a player can indeed mess up and take much longer. Unless your calculation also includes the time it takes to have your ship delivered. Then indeed flying directly is faster.

I believe that will depend on the length of the journey, they have a limited range, so if you want to go 100 ly for instance, you would need dock at a station and book another apex journey a number of times. When in your own ship, that would likely be a 2-3 jumps at most with zero stops.

All in all, my enthusisasm for Apex is, uh... limited. Nobody ever asked for it, nobody wanted it, it definitely takes more away from the game than it adds. Yet we absolutely had to have it. Now it's here to stay.

I've used it a few times, so I'm glad it's there.

And returning to where we actually came from: i really don't see anything wrong in having your NPC do the same "auto-flight" for you like Apex does, if you remain interdictable. It would merely take something bad and unnecessary and turn it into a somewhat useful convenience feature. You'd still be well advised to keep an eye on what is going on, due to the protection being removed. Also, i would not use it. The one thing which kept me in the game for years if the joy of flying the ships, despite all the nonsense with engineers and so on. But other people might enjoy other things. Some even claim that they enjoy parts of Odyssey, although i have no idea how that could be. Thus providing this option for players who would like to use it seems reasonable to me.

I claim that I enjoy lots of what Odyssey has given me.

I didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with it, I just said I didn't like it. It's my own personal opinion on it.

 

[Sylow]

Can you do this? You can call an apex taxi, but I'm not so sure you can call your own ship if it's in another system. Again something that needs checking.

Hmm. While i first thought this is not possible, as you can't go from the inside of a station to the planets surface without using your ship, you can also use an Apex taxi to a ground site. So yes, it's worth testing. My bet would be that the ship turns up in no time.

I believe that will depend on the length of the journey, they have a limited range, so if you want to go 100 ly for instance, you would need dock at a station and book another apex journey a number of times. When in your own ship, that would likely be a 2-3 jumps at most with zero stops.

With jump range you might have a point, compared to some ships. But on the other hand, Apex also seems to never slow down to scoop fuel, generally takes quite optimal routes around a star and to the destination station... so yes, an experienced player, paying full attention, can be faster. But i think that the average player actually travels faster with Apex than by hand.

I didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with it, I just said I didn't like it. It's my own personal opinion on it.

Hehe, oki. Point for you there. Not liking the idea is valid.

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Apart from making it work. Some things that might make me happy. I’m easily pleased.

Emotes
Please.

Taxi and police jobs
I’m up for that.

Planets
Fix the planet stamping with more ‘stamps’ and variation. Put some gross solid noise into other axes to help with verticals. Get some colours in to the planets to add some flavour. I’m assuming we have no tectonic moons to land on.

Settlements
Give the settlements some more integration into the surfaces with more disturbance to the ground and some vehicular elements ( they don’t t need to move )

Cabins / interiors
At least let us walk up and down the stairs / lift to the cabin.

NPC
AI crew to come with us, interact, and follow some orders.

SRV
A couple more seats would be nice

Concourse and stations
A couple more areas to visit in the stations so we can see the stars. Travel through the station interior on a train - this would help prepare for cities and limited interaction with populated planets as a modular element.

Space elevators ( maybe )
Just to park on a world. This would prepare for some orbital interaction with earth like worlds

Anyways - Everyone else had a list, mine not so long

I did a sketch for you all to hate on

 

[Arioch]

View attachment 251525

I did a sketch for you all to hate on

If you would like to know what a space elevator might look like in the game, try out the CQC map Elevate:

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

If you would like to know what a space elevator might look like in the game, try out the CQC map Elevate:
View attachment 251537

Ahhhhhh - so thats why they built it - i dont play CQC as my reflexes aren’t up to it

 

[zikolach]

And returning to where we actually came from: i really don't see anything wrong in having your NPC do the same "auto-flight" for you like Apex does, if you remain interdictable. It would merely take something bad and unnecessary and turn it into a somewhat useful convenience feature. You'd still be well advised to keep an eye on what is going on, due to the protection being removed. Also, i would not use it. The one thing which kept me in the game for years if the joy of flying the ships, despite all the nonsense with engineers and so on. But other people might enjoy other things. Some even claim that they enjoy parts of Odyssey, although i have no idea how that could be. Thus providing this option for players who would like to use it seems reasonable to me.

Just to speculate - what would happen if you having an Elite NPC onboard controlling highly engineered ship are interdicted by average/low-skilled NPC? Should your NPC fight back or try to flee? Should we have an ability to give simple orders like we have for SLF - defining the behavior for NPC? Would it lead to some abuse for the mechanic if we load a ton of palladium and let NPC collect bounties sending him to fly through low security systems?

It doesn't seem there is so much space for misusing of this game mechanic, does it?

 

[Tyvolus]

I played the original on the BBC "B" in 1984 too - although I skipped the additional offerings until ED a little over 4 years ago. Oddly, I quite enjoyed playing pre-3.3 release, and certainly very much so following that game-changing, bar-raising, update...

Fix elite? Is it broken?

Odyssey has issues aplenty, allegedly these are being worked on as I type, it should never have released in the state it did, for sure, now all I can do, like anyone else, is wait for the fixes to appear.

I don't think that playing the '84 elite, nor spending around 5,000 hours playing ED has given me any insight how to fix something

Is Elite broken? Depends on who you ask, if your asking me, yes it is and here is why...Bugs, lack of meaningful content, non-fleshed out game mechanics, playerbase split between solo and open, Snails pace developemnt cycle, lack of creativity for in game events etc. I could go on...
The bit you posted on how playing something for FIVE THOUSAND HOURS, hasnt given you any inisght on how to fix something, is a real What the HECK moment for me. You mean in all that time, you cant come up with one idea or suggestion or any feature etc that would fix or improve said game??? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and say you are just joking around. I hope I am right.

 

[Tyvolus]

As a researcher, I can say with confidence that YES! The Odyssey brought nothing of interest apart from the legs! Broken planetary technology, terrible UI, terrible FPS... It's not just "problems" - it's a completely broken product we got! Even the alpha looked better!

this...After all the time they spent with this game on maintenance mode, and they made this DLC...I havent played since this launched. There is no hope after they took YEARS to make THIS.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

The bit you posted on how playing something for FIVE THOUSAND HOURS, hasnt given you any inisght on how to fix something, is a real what moment for me. You mean in all that time, you cant come up with one idea or suggestion or any feature etc that would fix or improve said game??? I wont say what I am thinking...

Oh I’ve got loads and loads of ideas for the game, that I think would make it better. But that think is the key word, and even if they were good for my game they might be very different for yours!

That’s why I leave it to the professionals, who can manage a car-crash release without my help anyway

 

[Tyvolus]

A researcher. My, oh my - what illustrous company among a mere peasant mob of gamers. Kickstarter backer, researchers - what's next: armchair software engineers? War veterans, fathers of four children?

I guess the bit where what he said is 100% spot on, stung a bit.

 

[Tyvolus]

Oh I’ve got loads and loads of ideas for the game, that I think would make it better. But that think is the key word, and even if they were good for my game they might be very different for yours!

That’s why I leave it to the professionals, who can manage a car-crash release without my help anyway

you dont need to be a PRO to have a good idea or suggestion. Just FYI.
not sure an amatuer would have done worse. Cuz this DLC is bad.

 

[Sylow]

Just to speculate - what would happen if you having an Elite NPC onboard controlling highly engineered ship are interdicted by average/low-skilled NPC? Should your NPC fight back or try to flee? Should we have an ability to give simple orders like we have for SLF - defining the behavior for NPC? Would it lead to some abuse for the mechanic if we load a ton of palladium and let NPC collect bounties sending him to fly through low security systems?

It doesn't seem there is so much space for misusing of this game mechanic, does it?

I know what you mean. But would it really be more broken than the beam turret cutter AFK in a RES, with a ton of really any random mateiral on board?

Mind you, i do see what you point at, but you can do the very same thing, way more efficiently, already now.

 

[FX2K]

That's an easily solved exploit, tbf.
For a bounty to be rewarded to a player, the player HAS to have fired a shot on their target, not just let their NPC do it all.

 

[zikolach]

That's an easily solved exploit, tbf.
For a bounty to be rewarded to a player, the player HAS to have fired a shot on their target, not just let their NPC do it all.

Maybe use same profit-sharing system as normal, but the opposite way - NPC gets the most, player gets ~10% of total...