A Message To Elite Dangerous Developers

[Hat Man]

If the choice is between adding a Supercruise autopilot, and an interstellar autopilot, then my choice would be the Supercruise autopilot. Why? Because 95% of it is already in the game. The only thing is lacking is perhaps one minor course correction, and dropping out of Supercruise at the end. It wouldn't be a major change.

An interstellar autopilot would be a major change. Quite frankly, it would automate exploration. Just stick a penny into your keyboard, plot your course, and go to work. When you come home, you've got 300 ADS scans to your name. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

Exploration does NOT need to be automated. What it needs is a reason to stick around in a system, as opposed to jumping out. A reason to put down on the surface of a world, or at the very least, a reason to get close and personal.

Most importantly, that reason for doing so should be accompanied by a skill you need to develop. One that requires more attention and input from the player than just honking or pointing at a target that's barely larger than a dot for five seconds. Personally, the time I felt most like an explorer in this game was just after Horizons hit Beta. I spent hours on the surface of planets in my SRV, simply gathering samples and adding my survey to a group project, trying to fathom the mysteries of material distribution. The wave scanner, as an instrument of exploration, is a thing of beauty IMO. All the information you need is there, you just need to learn how to decipher it.

Of course players complained about having to go down and look for stuff, usually in the most ineffecient way possible, and rather than something fun and reasonable, like landing on a planet and taking a few samples to reveal its material distribution and provide another type of exploration data to turn in, Frontier decided to have the DSS reveal all, without ever having to even get close to a planet.

IMO, the advanced discovery scanner was the worst thing to happen to exploration. There is no strategy to develop, no skill to learn with that thing. There is no seeking out of what's hidden from view, because it is omniscent. No feeling of discovery. No moment of "Aha! Found you!"

I agree with just about everything you just said.

At most, the discovery scanner should show you where planets are, and approximately what mass, leaving the rest to mystery till you get a lot closer. Furthermore, the system map should look a little different, and be a bit more intuitive. it should be a proper 2, or even 3 dimensional map, allowing you view exactly where a planet is in the system currently... That matters. If you can see where planets are currently, or at least how their orbits look, and if you have an estimated habitable zone overlay on top of the map... And you see a rocky world of 1-3 earth masses in an orbit that's inside that zone... That's an indication that you may have found gold. That's when you go out to that planet, and start doing more scientific scans around it.

It's this kind of stuff that gets a player thinking, and more engaged.

At the same time however, in this system, it wouldn't be such a big deal if people used autopilots, as any REAL exploration, profitable exploration, would need to be done manually, based on a player's skill and intuition.

Autopilot really is a conditional thing... Maybe it shouldn't be added currently, but after something more is given to the player to do, other than "turn, honk, jump".

 

[Blackcompany]

If that is all you do in this game when not in combat, then I pity you.

That's all there functionally IS to do in this game outside of combat. That's all flying IS if you aren't shooting something. That's the Problem.

 

[Blackcompany]

As much as the autopilot debate is frustrating me (as it's not the only thing in the OP to discuss, and I've already made other points in it about how to balance it, or even make it unnecessary to begin with), there are a lot of good points being made on both sides of that debate. Some of the people who hate it at least have some very reasonable conditions. Like the distance limit for example. I could get on board with that. With how I'd like to use it, I'd be there and ready to start it on a new plot anyway, and it would prevent people from abusing it to "farm" out the game. Furthermore, in my very next point about this game in the OP, which was a recent edit, btw, I further addressed ways to make interstellar flight more interesting to begin with, so as to make auto-piloting less attractive, and manual flight more entertaining and engaging.

I like the idea of being able to walk around the ship and do other things on it, as opposed to the multimedia tab. Perhaps FDev could introduce JUST that as a beta-test for future space legs content?

That being said, I think people on both sides are ultimately finally coming to the crux of the problem.

... That is... If you take away the "turn, honk, jump"... then there is no game... at least not between your starting point and your destination, there isn't... There is no "exploration" because that's all that is. You probably wouldn't be concerned about some people not using the "turn, honk, jump" mechanic if that were just a tiny detail... But it isn't a tiny detail... It's a major detail because stuff like that is what this game has boiled down to.

Nobody's mad about docking computers because that's not all there is to do. You're in a space station for god's sakes, there's a mission board, passenger lounge, ship customization, shipyard, etc... If none of that was there, and the only point in landing at a pad WAS TO LAND AT A PAD, then yeah, people would be split and vocal on the idea of a docking computer.

I like the idea of an autopilot, I'd probably use it... but you know what... there needs to be something else there, so that "turn, honk, jump" isn't all there is.

Point is... There's not enough game here to be a game, but also not enough simulator to be a simulator. A game would challenge you with engaging gameplay, and a simulator would give you realistic ways of dealing with challenges... This game does neither, because it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be yet.

This post nails the problem: there is no game here.

Elite is an arcade space shooter that's had an empty, pointless open world attached to it, to wander through between shooting sessions, desperately clinging to the Simulator claim like the toddler brother who wants to play with the big kids and genuinely lacks the maturity to understand why he CANT do so.

 

[Sashenka]

If I could add my 2 cents. I think that a good middle ground would be to at least maybe have the FSD start charging automatically while looking at the target star and stop charging once you look away. In the same vein, dropping off SC automatically if you are in the blue zone for both speed and distance could alleviate the feeling of being a robot while travelling.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's all there functionally IS to do in this game outside of combat. That's all flying IS if you aren't shooting something. That's the Problem.

Well, that is an utter lie. I do very little combat, but my time hyperjumping is tiny compared to other stuff. I take it that when you don't do combat you just do hyperjumps from one system to another as you have nothing else to do. Sorry but your lies are so transparent I suggest you don't say them at all.

 

[Old Duck]

This post nails the problem: there is no game here.

Elite is an arcade space shooter that's had an empty, pointless open world attached to it, to wander through between shooting sessions, desperately clinging to the Simulator claim like the toddler brother who wants to play with the big kids and genuinely lacks the maturity to understand why he CANT do so.

You know, I am very vocal and hard on FDev when it comes to some of their decisions, but this post of yours is just not true. I've gotten more hours of enjoyment out of this game than almost any other of the AAA games I've played over the years, as have many people in this forum, including those who complain about it the most!

 

[Hat Man]

Well, that is an utter lie. I do very little combat, but my time hyperjumping is tiny compared to other stuff. I take it that when you don't do combat you just do hyperjumps from one system to another as you have nothing else to do. Sorry but your lies are so transparent I suggest you don't say them at all.

What?... Really? You're calling him a liar?

If point B is your mission location/where you want to go, and point A is where you got your mission from/where you started, and the ONLY thing to do in-between at minimum is "turn and jump"... THEN WHAT IS HE LYING ABOUT?

You're accusing him of lying, but not about what. You're accusing him of lying as if he HAS to be doing something else too... No... NO... NO HE DOESN'T. Literally the ONLY requirement to go from point A to point B is to turn and jump, that is the ONLY thing that is MANDATORY. And frankly... There's almost NOTHING beyond that. You keep saying crap like "well I do plenty of stuff"... LIKE WHAT? STOP AT EVERY PLANET ALONG THE WAY BECAUSE OF INSANITY? There's hardly even a logical reason to stop, outside maybe finding an Earth like, or fuel scooping.

If YOU personally like stopping to look at stuff, then goodie for you, but don't act like that's EVERYBODY's experience as if that's practically a requirement of the game. There is no LOGICAL reason to stop and look at stuff unless it's out of pure desire.

You're probably about to talk about some other crap, like trading or passenger missions, or what have you, and yes, those things are "technically" not combat, even if they're little more than button pushing (buy goods, sell goods. Scan a sat, accept reward)... But those are stuff you do at point A and B, JUST like combat. Accept a mission, scan a sat, turn the mission in... Those AREN'T things you do WHILE travelling. If anything, interdictions are the closest you really get to doing stuff while travelling, and that IS combat. And even that typically just happens before you leave where you started, or after you arrived at your destination.

Why the hell are you getting so mad at people? Dude... It's not a perfect game, none are, people are just talking about ways to make it better, how to make content more interesting. You don't need to be going around telling people they're liars.

It seems like you maybe do short range missions. In which case, yeah, hyperjumps would only take up a small amount of your time.

But it is a massive problem for long range exploration... Seriously... Think about it... What else is there to do out there, besides land somewhere out of whimsy?... Turn... Honk... Jump...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What?... Really? You're calling him a liar?

If point B is your mission location/where you want to go, and point A is where you got your mission from/where you started, and the ONLY thing to do in-between at minimum is "turn and jump"... THEN WHAT IS HE LYING ABOUT?

You're accusing him of lying, but not about what. You're accusing him of lying as if he HAS to be doing something else too... No... NO... NO HE DOESN'T. Literally the ONLY requirement to go from point A to point B is to turn and jump, that is the ONLY thing that is MANDATORY. And frankly... There's almost NOTHING beyond that. You keep saying crap like "well I do plenty of stuff"... LIKE WHAT? STOP AT EVERY PLANET ALONG THE WAY BECAUSE OF INSANITY? There's hardly even a logical reason to stop, outside maybe finding an Earth like, or fuel scooping.

If YOU personally like stopping to look at stuff, then goodie for you, but don't act like that's EVERYBODY's experience as if that's practically a requirement of the game. There is no LOGICAL reason to stop and look at stuff unless it's out of pure desire.

You're probably about to talk about some other crap, like trading or passenger missions, or what have you, and yes, those things are "technically" not combat, even if they're little more than button pushing (buy goods, sell goods. Scan a sat, accept reward)... But those are stuff you do at point A and B, JUST like combat. Accept a mission, scan a sat, turn the mission in... Those AREN'T things you do WHILE travelling. If anything, interdictions are the closest you really get to doing stuff while travelling, and that IS combat. And even that typically just happens before you leave where you started, or after you arrived at your destination.

Why the hell are you getting so mad at people? Dude... It's not a perfect game, none are, people are just talking about ways to make it better, how to make content more interesting. You don't need to be going around telling people they're liars.

It seems like you maybe do short range missions. In which case, yeah, hyperjumps would only take up a small amount of your time.

But it is a massive problem for long range exploration... Seriously... Think about it... What else is there to do out there, besides land somewhere out of whimsy?... Turn... Honk... Jump...

He says all you do is hyperjumps and do combat. That is all you can do in the game. It is a complete lie, there is one plenty more like piloting your ship in supercruise in normal space and on planets, but obviously he doesn't do any of that. He just jumps backwards and forwards between a couple of stars until a war breaks out and does some combat.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

That's a lot of words, and I need to read it again to digest it all. But from what I gathered I agree with the OP. This game is a crazy grind and not at all newbie friendly. There are a hundred different small things FDev could do to make the game more newbie friendly.

And poor OP is going to get roasted by insufferable grognards.

Meh, just git gud. Now seriously, all of us had to go through this stage and now that I'm a capable elite, I can say that it was fun to be rather weak.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

?

The OP spent over 100 hours earning his Beluga. His issue was (a) how long it takes for people with real things to do in life and (b) how dry, bland and tasteless a lot of the missions and their variety are. After which he went into a long-worded analysis of other mechanisms he feels are problematic, most of which get voiced monthly in one form or another here. Thin mission variety. Repetitiveness. Mission completion being locked into real life time and mission branches within them that further disrespect the time of the player. So on and so forth. Then he spent time talking about features that could be improved, again most of which are voiced here regularly.

100 hrs isn't a lot. By that point I think I had just finished A rating my Asp X.

 

[Hat Man]

He says all you do is hyperjumps and do combat. That is all you can do in the game. It is a complete lie. But he has been trolling these forums for a long time with his inane rubbish. He is on my of ignore list now as I have had enough of his pointless posts that offer nothing constructive.

Alright, I guess if there's a prior history of him bothering you, then the anger has context. I'm brand new to the forums, so I'm not really aware of who does what. It just appeared a bit out of the blue.

 

[Old Duck]

What?... Really? You're calling him a liar?

Technically there is a difference between saying something is a lie and calling a person a liar. A child may tell you Santa is real. You're not calling that child a liar by telling him, "Sorry kid, but that's a lie." As for the lie in question, one has to follow the thread back quite a bit, but if I read correctly, the "lie" is that there is nothing to do outside of combat but honk and jump. In my opinion, that is indeed a lie, because I do plenty in this game besides just "honk and jump when not in combat".

Your subsequent rant against Max Factor (and by proxy, the many of us who agree with him) is a big turn-off. Maybe you ought reread your post and ask yourself your own question, "Why the hell are you getting so mad at people?" and while you are at it, stick to your goal of not posting while emotional - you do yourself no service by going off on others like that.

 

[Hat Man]

Meh, just git gud.

... Git gud at what, exactly?... There's not a whole lot here to git gud AT. I'll reiterate:

Personally, I’d like to ask that people refrain from using the replies of “git gud” or “if you don’t like it, don’t play it”. For the first, what’s it better to be “gud” at, a well polished game with real difficulty and challenge, or a game that's repetitive and shallow? This game has very real problems, and when a significant portion of the player base points them out, or just straight up quits because they can't be bothered anymore, then they should be addressed… Not dismissed as just being bad at the game.

100 hrs isn't a lot. By that point I think I had just finished A rating my Asp X.

No, 109 hours isn't alot of in-game time... But my life has been very busy since joining the military, and that 109 hours was spread across 1 year.

And 1 year, IS a long time. Not everybody's "109 hours" is the same in real time. In game time, I probably could've just as easily A listed my ship in about 100 hours. My Asp X was only partly upgraded.

 

[robbyp]

Had enough of your pathetic bull. As that is all it is.

I feel you pain. But there is no point reacting as it's not like they are going to change their mind.

 

[Infiltrait0r]

To be honest i only read about 70-80% of op, still i mostly agree with your points and suggestions.
A few things tough:

-there are some very vocal purists around this game and the devs seem to listen to them more than to the rest of us. Just take a look at what happened to the planet surface preview on the system map, they moaned until it was put behind a detailed surface scan wall, practically making it useless.
Did they cared that no one forces them to use this feature? No they didn't. If they don't want to use something, than you shouldn't use it as well. The same goes for the autopilot and i guess a lot of other features too.
Also a lot of people seem to think that boring and / or time consuming = hard.

-You already know this but: there was a "golden rule" in eve online when i played it: "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" Something similar goes to ED too. You should have settled with an orca for example for a while. If you can't rebuy a ship 2-3 times that means you can't afford it.

 

[Hat Man]

Technically there is a difference between saying something is a lie and calling a person a liar. A child may tell you Santa is real. You're not calling that child a liar by telling him, "Sorry kid, but that's a lie." As for the lie in question, one has to follow the thread back quite a bit, but if I read correctly, the "lie" is that there is nothing to do outside of combat but honk and jump. In my opinion, that is indeed a lie, because I do plenty in this game besides just "honk and jump when not in combat".

Your subsequent rant against Max Factor (and by proxy, the many of us who agree with him) is a big turn-off. Maybe you ought reread your post and ask yourself your own question, "Why the hell are you getting so mad at people?" and while you are at it, stick to your goal of not posting while emotional - you do yourself no service by going off on others like that.

You're right, I apologize to Max, I should have paid more attention, and read back more... I think I'm just cranky, I've been up almost 24 hours now. I have a real issue with turning things off and just going to sleep, and trying to keep up with this forum in real time has exacerbated that a bit over the past few days.

I think from now on I'll just check back in on occasion, just to see how the discussion is progressing. I've said most of what I felt needed saying either in the OP or in subsequent replies, but I like seeing what others have to say on the subject. Someone prior stated that it's ironic I've spent so much time in this forum rather than playing the game... They're actually right. I've been interested in trying out some of the tips people have left, but keep finding myself coming back here to talk about ideas instead.

 

[krylite]

OP, maybe you could try playing FFE for a few hours. http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm It had the autopilot which also included fast docking. When I first played Elite Dangerous, I was surprised at the changes with no autopilot and always popping out near the primary star of a system. Then I realized it was on purpose by fdev. I think their reasoning is due to ED being made a hybrid MMO game for many types of players. The missions seem to be repetitively similar because the mission generating system functions on it's own seemingly designed to be able to work with the sheer scale of the millions of star systems. For more ongoing and concurrent content ED would probably need to be more of a real MMO structure where like other MMO's there are usually teams of in-gameplay designers and moderators which probably could only be supported if ED went to a monthly subscription with centralized servers instead of the current p2p instancing system. I kind of read and skimmed through the long post of this thread where your interest in the game is certainly recognized. I can't say I agree with much of the ideas as the game has been quite entertaining enough for me on its on terms so far. Then again I'm more on the 'purist/whiteknight' fandom side since Elite 2&3 of the franchise and I still of the opinion ED is amazingly groundbreaking and bar setting at the gist of it all. I would agree with the idea of having some mechanic in the future with npc crew perhaps able to perform some function of auto piloting if they'll allow it. Well it's maybe good that you're a relatively newer player because then you won't have to wait so long since Fdev are going to make improvements and changes to the core game with announcements scheduled in their con at the start of October..

 

[Shinji Ikari]

To the OP, congratulations for writing one of the longest walls of text I've seen posted on this forum in a long time, and i've been around here for about 4 years or so.......

the grand total of 56,122 characters typed with 12494 words in total.......

I read the first sections and then gave up with the rest - please can be be succinct when posting??

4 years in the forums and you have less forum rating than me?!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You're right, I apologize to Max, I should have paid more attention, and read back more... I think I'm just cranky, I've been up almost 24 hours now. I have a real issue with turning things off and just going to sleep, and trying to keep up with this forum in real time has exacerbated that a bit over the past few days.

I think from now on I'll just check back in on occasion, just to see how the discussion is progressing. I've said most of what I felt needed saying either in the OP or in subsequent replies, but I like seeing what others have to say on the subject. Someone prior stated that it's ironic I've spent so much time in this forum rather than playing the game... They're actually right. I've been interested in trying out some of the tips people have left, but keep finding myself coming back here to talk about ideas instead.

Talking is good. I wouldn't worry about it. Ideas are good too. It can help FDev make the game a better experience overall which we all want.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

... Git gud at what, exactly?... There's not a whole lot here to git gud AT. I'll reiterate:

Git Gud with anything you want. People have also told me to "git gud" in PvP etc. but I didn't care because PvP isn't my goal. I think what I have become good at is exploration. What are your goals in the game?

The game has many flaws but that doesn't mean it is NMS at release date. You can find constructive gameplay if you search for it. If you can't find it then wait for some time until you do.