It is not a bug, it is a design choice.
Weirdly enough, exploiting this design choice is considered a cheat.
And the only thing you can do about it, is to report the offender to FDev and hope they will get banned to solo - if any.
A Simple Solution to Combat Logging
- Thread starter Mimix
- Start date
It is not a bug, it is a design choice.
Weirdly enough, exploiting this design choice is considered a cheat.
And the only thing you can do about it, is to report the offender to FDev and hope they will get banned to solo - if any.
Simplystyc
Banned
Again, that is not the topic of this thread, Please keep the thread on track. We are discussing combat logging, not expoiting, bugs or FDEV's Flawed game mechanics.
SWTOR is an online MP game, too.
Simplystyc
Banned
And a good one at that.
This is still, has always been, and will always be a People Problem, not a Game problem.
The real solution is for PvP'er to "git gud" at being better people, stop crying about something no one can fix, and get on with playing.
The only thing Frontier can ever do about it is not simply have a ship vanish, but rather vanish by playing the "ship blew up" animation, so the PvP'er can believe they've "won" and move on. That's the only thing that will "fix" an Unfixable issue.
The real solution is for PvP'er to "git gud" at being better people, stop crying about something no one can fix, and get on with playing.
The only thing Frontier can ever do about it is not simply have a ship vanish, but rather vanish by playing the "ship blew up" animation, so the PvP'er can believe they've "won" and move on. That's the only thing that will "fix" an Unfixable issue.
Combat logging is an exploit abuse. And if i were in FDev shoes i would give bans to solo at first offence.
But there is no simple solution against it.
IF there was, we would had it already.
Also FDev apparently is not very keen to punish the offenders either. Which in itself is saying something.
quoted for truth
Yeah, you're right. It is their problem and not yours because you aren't owed anything from them regarding their internet connection or it's reliability. That also covers IRL commitments, sudden phone calls, baby diaper changes, packages being delivered, trying to get one more run in before they have to leave for the airport or anything else. I love reading here under what specific living conditions I should be allowed to play a video game.
Good freaking lord, It is a game. If they seem to only have internet issues or packages to sign for when they are in combat then turn them in to FDev because that's against their TOS and stop being worried about them, or plaster them on any of the multiple lists of shame out there.
The bold bit cracks me up, I'm going to wager the majority of cord-pullers are not the ones deciding there will be combat right now.
Simplystyc
Banned
Sure, however that raises the question: If your have to quickly break away from your PC for something IRL, why would you go to the trouble of Yanking your internet cord or killing the game process in the task manager? I personally think that is a weak excuse. Another strawman argument that many try and produce, in an attempt to avoid "The Music".
If you have a sudden urgent IRL commitment, yet make the time to combat log, there is something wrong there. Just take the rebuy and you will remain at the rebuy screen untill you return.
IF you don't have enough for rebuy and are flying in open then there is NO excuse. With the number of ways we can make quick credits in this game, no-one should be flying their ship without a rebuy.
Do I have to go on?
You know perfectly well that many mention menu-logging and not just cord-pulling as part of 'the problem'.
Simplystyc
Banned
I didn't though.
My personal feelings toward menu logging might be different than FDEV's, but I choose to respect FDEV's stance on Menu Logging.
We were talking about the Combat Logging issue which is Task-Killing and/or Cord Pulling. You made a statement about IRL activities, I asked a question and have yet to receive an appropriate answer. Instead throughout this thread I keep getting strawman arguments and derail attempts.
I am a simple man, I ask a question and hope to recieve a direct response. None of this beating around the bush nonsense.
Just an observation: there are grey areas even here.
I've never combat logged, I'm never going to and I've never seen anyone else do it. But I have my PC set up so that it performs a complete orderly shutdown on one tap of the power button. When not gaming I frequently use that on phone calls or doorbell rings. (In ED I'm more likely to just leave the ship where it is).
So, no cord-pull or task-kill is involved. Windows manages the shutdown and every process gets notified to tidy up its files; there's nothing ungraceful about the termination, this is simply a feature of how Windows 10 functions. I seriously doubt that anything involving normal OS operation could be regarded by FD as a breach of ToS.
Simplystyc
Banned
Still would be terminating the Elite Dangerous.exe process. Hitting the power button will not make you exit to the main menu then shut game down. Still Logging.
You're ending the task, which is the same thing as a combat log. Task killing is one of the methods.
I agree, it would be accurate to call that "logging" and I wouldn't do it; I would feel that it was cheating. But it's also normal OS operation with which the ED client has to conform, so I don't believe it would be a ToS violation.
Although, come to think of it, what really happens is that Windows asks every running task to shut down and each one does what it needs before stopping. So maybe ED does allow itself 15 seconds for this.
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Simplystyc
Banned
Only way to know is to time It I guess. I doubt it would take 15 seconds to shut down.
A little late into the thread but perhaps it's worth pinning down some of the ways "Combat Logging" is defined:
At it's most basic, If you attempt to evade the consequences of in-game actions using an out of game mechanism (ie leaving the game) that's Combat Logging.
In some cases the game caters for this, with the ship in danger logoff timer, or if the ship is not in immediate danger allowing the player to log off straight away. Some have an issue with these but the game does have rules that cater for these events.
However if the player has what I think FDev refer to as an ungraceful exit (ie the game crashes, power cut, network disconnect etc) the basic program handles it but there is no in-game consequence while the ship is in danger as there is with a graceful exit.
I think there should be one. The proposal I prefer is that the player must log back into the mode they left. There would need to be a few other contingency rules but I think it would help to have a game rule of some sort that caters for these ungraceful exists while the ship/cmdr is in danger.
At it's most basic, If you attempt to evade the consequences of in-game actions using an out of game mechanism (ie leaving the game) that's Combat Logging.
In some cases the game caters for this, with the ship in danger logoff timer, or if the ship is not in immediate danger allowing the player to log off straight away. Some have an issue with these but the game does have rules that cater for these events.
However if the player has what I think FDev refer to as an ungraceful exit (ie the game crashes, power cut, network disconnect etc) the basic program handles it but there is no in-game consequence while the ship is in danger as there is with a graceful exit.
I think there should be one. The proposal I prefer is that the player must log back into the mode they left. There would need to be a few other contingency rules but I think it would help to have a game rule of some sort that caters for these ungraceful exists while the ship/cmdr is in danger.
That only applies to programs that have conditions that cause the system to notify before task closure. For instance, files that have not been saved.
You can do the same thing on consoles by exiting the game.
I would hit escape, wait the 15 secs to hit Exit to Main Menu and go. Nobody needs to pull the cord to handle IRL issues, I didn't claim that they did. I stated that no player in this game is owed anything from another player in terms of connection reliability, PC reliability, bandwidth, time of play or commitment to the mechanics. If they violate TOS you turn them in. If they are within it, then accept not everyone will play as you consider acceptable and move on. This is after all exactly what the people whining about getting shot at engineers are told as well. The post I referenced was not yours, it was someone's proposing that anyone with unreliable internet gets re-buy when their connection fails in combat.
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As been posted above, clogging is a deliberate act - you should try to find out who is typically doing it, then what are the reasons behind it, then come with a solution.
But you dont even seem to consider that.
You are just ranting against clogging and how it affects pvp. I'd say clogging doesn't affect pvp at all, at least not consensual pvp, but bear with me.
I'll try to have a go at it.
Pvp community is very strict and very harsh about it. So never ever clog.
They even forbid menu logging - which is a legit mean of quitting the game.
Again, as a pvp-er never ever clog, never ever menu log. Else one gets shamed and even excluded from the pvp community
So i think we are safe to conclude that a pvp-er worthy of the tag never clogs and never menu logs. Ever.
So who does it?
Maybe the ganker that enjoys seal clubbing but cannot take the rebuy screen
Maybe the casual that plays in open for the social aspect of the game and is annoyed when someone interrupts his sightseeing with an interdiction
Maybe the newb that barely dragged his 1t of meta alloys to Farseer only to be blown while requesting docking permission. He then comes to whine on the forums and eventually finds about clogging...
Or maybe someone at the wrong place and time that doesn't want to lose his exploration data, missions, cargo, slf pilot, whatever.
Basically, anyone that is not part of the pvp community can be tempted to clog. What they have to lose anyways?
At worst a temporary ban to solo, lol.
You say that clogging affects the pvp-ers. I'd say not.
I say that clogging affects the relation between a pvp-er and a non-pvp-er. Which is a non-relation anyways.
A simple solution might be to stop forcing pvp on randoms.
Another one would be to remove the death penalty at all. If nothing to lose, why clogging the first place?
Being blown up would be like "omg, this is waaay faster that the docking computer"
the less simple solutions would be:
open-pve
pvp-flagging
rewriting the netcode and implementing session servers
But the really really simple solution is to stop caring.
Somone clogs on you - you own that. It's on you.
It only means you picked the wrong target. #%^& him and move along.
As i said, i'd ban to solo any clogger, even temporary - but even that would mean a lot of man-hours on FDev's part to analyze any complain and make sure it was a real clogger and not a fluke.
Edit: pff, what a wall of text i put up.