A Simple Solution to Combat Logging

[Simplystyc]

Oh one more thing, how broke this game is, regarding PvP is. We (A Wing) chased a corvette, pinned her and open fire. The Vette deployed a fighter an instantly the vette rubberbanded like hell. Nevertheless we somehow manage to fire. suddenly the vette "dissapeared".

The fighters when deployed in a PvP instance cause insane lag between the players. This is a known bug and FDEV are working on it. Hopefully they release a fix in the January update later this month.

Sounds like the vette de instanced. I've seen many a people crash with different error codes.

 

[Simplystyc]

But its obvious that the entire game is designed in a way to give players the choice take part in pvp, or refrain from it entirely.
It's only a core design decision that makes PvP optional.

I don't agree with your statement here. It's clear that PvP is both allowed and encouraged by FDEV.

I however choose to respect your opinion on the matter though.

 

[Sylveria]

For many a PvPer it's the fact that the other party cheated in order to escape an unwanted situation.

Thing is too, this applies not only to ganking, but legitimate PvP as well.

I personally feel, as I read through the comments here, that the whole stigma surrounding PvP needs to be thrown out the window. How most PvPers are grouped together with Gankers and how actual PvP in game is just ganking at that is that. Which is simply not the case.

Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game and encourages PvP. How else would you explain all the multiplayer content such as : Fleet Carriers (Coming Soon), Multicrew, Wing Missions, BGS, Player Squadrons, etc. So many people say Elite is a single player game with multiplayer elements which is simply not the case

Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game in which PvP is completely optional. How else would you explain Private Groups and Solo?

Yes, the rest you have mentioned are also optional features of the game which may also be experienced in both Private Groups (oops... not Open Only...) as well as Open...

Oh, what was your point again?

BTW... have you figured out your enlightening response as to how to differentiate between a legitimate versus accidental combat log?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I personally feel, as I read through the comments here, that the whole stigma surrounding PvP needs to be thrown out the window. How most PvPers are grouped together with Gankers and how actual PvP in game is just ganking at that is that. Which is simply not the case.

The stigma won't be removed until those for whom PvP is not "fun" are no longer inconvenienced by those who enjoy PvP (and don't care whether their target has any "fun" in the encounter).

To the target different types of PvP player are not necessarily differentiable.

Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game and encourages PvP. How else would you explain all the multiplayer content such as : Fleet Carriers (Coming Soon), Multicrew, Wing Missions, BGS, Player Squadrons, etc. So many people say Elite is a single player game with multiplayer elements which is simply not the case

None of the features mentioned require any player to engage in PvP - although they may encourage players to play co-operatively.

 

[Eliza]

For many a PvPer it's the fact that the other party cheated in order to escape an unwanted situation.

Thing is too, this applies not only to ganking, but legitimate PvP as well.

I personally feel, as I read through the comments here, that the whole stigma surrounding PvP needs to be thrown out the window. How most PvPers are grouped together with Gankers and how actual PvP in game is just ganking at that is that. Which is simply not the case.

Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game and encourages PvP. How else would you explain all the multiplayer content such as : Fleet Carriers (Coming Soon), Multicrew, Wing Missions, BGS, Player Squadrons, etc. So many people say Elite is a single player game with multiplayer elements which is simply not the case

Right this...I really feel offended when someone throws me into the same bucket as those gankers and clubbers. Most "c-loggers" I witnessed were those G's and C's. Maybe because I hunt them down whenever I get a call from my squad?

But I also think, Elite IS a SP with MP touch, for now...hopefully this will change in the future even more.

 

[Eliza]

The fighters when deployed in a PvP instance cause insane lag between the players. This is a known bug and FDEV are working on it. Hopefully they release a fix in the January update later this month.

Sounds like the vette de instanced. I've seen many a people crash with different error codes.

That was our first guessing too, so we stood still and did not report him.

 

[Simplystyc]

I agree with this.
In all honesty there is no pvp community.
What we have is a random assortment of individuals that play competively for an equally large number of reasons all lumped together under the one banner by the player base at large.
This leads to many ploblems and misconceptions.

For three specific but completely disparate subsections clogging is a very real concern that they feel needs serious address.
One is the salt mining clans for obvious reason.
The other is the dyed in the wool pvp specialists who see it rightfully as cheating when one party in a serious and usually quite equal, often pre arranged stoush ends with a clog.
A third group are those against all forms of cheating even if they are not specifically pvp centric in thier own playtime.
For my own reasons i dont care about clogging, i just count it as a victory and move on.

In all honesty there is no PvP Community

I beg to differ sir. I have been a part of Elite's PvP community for 4 years and Elite's PvP community is quite large. Although lately I am finding myself exploring instead of fighting! You are correct in stating there are different types of PvPers though.

1. The Hardcore Ganker.
Usually on the lower end of the skill tree. The hardcore ganker thrives on extracting salt from harmless and weak players. They usually don't have the skill required to PvP with the actual "PvPers" so they resort to ganking, and found out they enjoy the salt.

2. The Casual Ganker.
This type of CMDR used to PvP on a regular basis, and never actually went out and ganked anyone, untill one day they decided to try it out because of boredom. Usually found with a wing of buddies at the local CG and Deciat. Decent in PvP although perhaps a bit rusty.

3. The Casual PvPer
Not as hardcore as some, however has decent skill. Usually found at local CG's and Shinrarta on a regular basis. Usually a 1v1 pilot who specializes in 1 ship/build and everyone knows them because they have been around for so long. Really good at 1v1's however lack the experience in wingfights.

4. The Hardcore PvPer
Strictly flies a FDL in PvP. Usually found at Shinrarta in a wing, or San Tu fighting with other skilled pilots. Constantly adjusting or upgrading the build to keep up with the META or discovering improvements on the current META.

 

[Sylveria]

That was our first guessing too, so we stood still and did not report him.

And yet, when your own squad-member was reported... it turned out to be a total nothing-burger of accusation where the facts didn't support the accusation.

Here we are.

Yeah, I think Frontier needs to consider applying whatever penalties those whom accuse others of "cheating" and found to be innocent with the same penalties.

Moral of the Story.. think twice before you seriously accuse others without absolute proof.

 

[Simplystyc]

None of the features mentioned require any player to engage in PvP - although they may encourage players to play co-operatively.

Please note that I didn't say that Elite was a PvP game. I said it was a multiplayer game, that just happens to include PvP.

 

[Sylveria]

Please note that I didn't say that Elite was a PvP game. I said it was a multiplayer game, that just happens to include PvP.

Of which is completely optional.

@Robert Maynard 's point still stands.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Please note that I didn't say that Elite was a PvP game. I said it was a multiplayer game, that just happens to include PvP.

Indeed - I was responding to: "How else would you explain all the multiplayer content such as".

PvP exists simply because players can choose to shoot at anything they encounter in-game.

 

[Eliza]

@All Did you just noticed...the "real PvP'ers" went very silent the last 30-60 min.

 

[Sylveria]

Indeed - I was responding to: "How else would you explain all the multiplayer content such as".

PvP exists simply because players can choose to shoot at anything they encounter in-game.

Exactly... Can choose, which is completely optional... versus mandatory, which is again what some appear to be implying.

Oh gee, but we "carebears", indeed.

 

[Eliza]

Oh gee, but we "carebears", indeed.

Yeah I'm a carebear. I take care of my squad-members and try to protect them from the scum of the galaxy.

 

[Simplystyc]

I am aware it's cheating. I say so explicitly in the post you quoted: "Look I get the unsportsmanship of clogging, I get it's cheating because Frontier says so. But I fail to understand the impact and consequences of clogging which makes this a big problem. "

I guess I'll bite because there are many situations where it's an issue.

You attack a player running missions to mess with your BGS, he logs and you can't prevent the missions from being carried out.

Same could be said about powerplay, or a Pirate attempting to acquire cargo from a target.

Perhaps you are trying to kill a notorious ganker, they decide to clog and avoid the rebuy. That's no good because he never recieves any sort of opposition and continues on a mad ganking spree.

The main issue is you pull someone and they clog on you because of a "Unwanted PvP situation". To which I say, if you don't want PvP, don't fly in open play. It's that simple.

What is the old saying? If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen?

To which I say, If you can't handle PvP, get out of Open play.

 

[Sylveria]

@All Did you just noticed...the "real PvP'ers" went very silent the last 30-60 min.

Yep, because when it comes to direct pointed questions, they have NOTHING. NADA. Not a scintilla of concrete evidence to support accusation and assertion outside if mere implication. Just a lot of hearsay and speculation, as usual.

For the uninitiated... I seriously suggest a review of the lengthy yet thorough Hotel California discussions, in which Combat Logging amongst many other subjects have been clearly covered already over the past 5+ years.

Some would have you believe that because the Hotel California thread was "closed" that the discussion has been resolved... no, it merely means that the discussion continues in may other threads instead of a single one. Notice how many "PvE" tags exist within the "Playstyles" subthread of this forum.

Oops.

 

[Darth Montu]

While i dont condone clogging, and ive recently had people do it on me, with lag issues being what they are and this games habit of kicking you out to dashboard (im on xboxone), holding the ship in instance for a time is a bad idea. Say your going along and boom....out to dash.

What if youre mid jump? Into star?
What if youre just in super? Free interdict and death?

How does the game tell the difference between an attempted log and a dropped conntection?

 

[Northpin]

And yet, when your own squad-member was reported... it turned out to be a total nothing-burger of accusation where the facts didn't support the accusation.

Here we are.

Yeah, I think Frontier needs to consider applying whatever penalties those whom accuse others of "cheating" and found to be innocent with the same penalties.

Moral of the Story.. think twice before you seriously accuse others without absolute proof.

Seeing someone menu logging and reporting them for combat logging is just another form of grieving.
Who does that knows perfectly well that FDev has an automated response in place that sends "friendly" emails when a clogging report is received.
The actual cloggers might do that on purpose to flood the system and lower the trust in FDev even more (if that's even possibly)

 

[Sylveria]

While i dont condone clogging, and ive recently had people do it on me, with lag issues being what they are and this games habit of kicking you out to dashboard (im on xboxone), holding the ship in instance for a time is a bad idea. Say your going along and boom....out to dash.

What if youre mid jump? Into star?
What if youre just in super? Free interdict and death?

How does the game tell the difference between an attempted log and a dropped conntection?

Case in point... yet silence from the Peanut Gallery.

 

[Ezren]

Please note that I didn't say that Elite was a PvP game. I said it was a multiplayer game, that just happens to include PvP.

If you're so very worried about specific semantics, you specifically said it encourages PvP. The response in context to that was correct, despite you misrepresentation here.