Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

Frontier made botting even easier , you want to see the bgs bots look at the powerplay leaderboard , when it became public about the bots and cheats several high profile powerplay groups suddenly slowed down 10 fold .
And that is weird as some have 2 different squadrons and both where doing the same numbers. and now suddenly there is a large difference.

Wonder what happend there.
 
... and are just investigating based on reports...
Exactly - just report everyone acting suspicious, preferably without complaining on the forums to give the potential cheaters hints that they've been spoted, and let FDev investigate.
And do not start again with "we reported combat loggers for months" because this is not of the same order of magnitude
 

The Replicated Man

T
Exactly - just report everyone acting suspicious, preferably without complaining on the forums to give the potential cheaters hints that they've been spoted, and let FDev investigate.
And do not start again with "we reported combat loggers for months" because this is not of the same order of magnitude
I consider both just as bad. Combat Logging in any form is cheating and should be held in the same regard as this cheat engine. I honestly would like to see any form of logging have a 3 strike system with the 3rd strike being a permaban to solo. That would be awesome.
 
Paige,
Many of us love this game and this is why we are so passionate about the issue. I believe you when you say you have some method to combat cheating. My concern--and perhaps shared by others--is that what you are doing isn't enough. I have no wish to hear about the specifics and I have no professional judgement on how hard the various issues are to combat. However, in whatever input mechanisms you have available with the larger team, please escalate this issue internally to the point where you will be able to give more substantive replies.
Thanks for making yourself available for these types of difficult discussions.
 
When it comes to banning / identifying cheaters, sorry, but I have a low confidence in FD.

Hard to believe this when hackers keep coming back even after plenty of reports against them.

This post feels so empty of substance. You can at least tell us how many players you've banned in the last months. Plenty of companies do this. Just make up a number.
42.

Obviously.
 
Without any evidence to back that up, I find myself quite unable to have faith.

Who has been banned for cheating, besides those who did so in a blatant and visible way on stream?

Someone brought up the 2.X engineering exploit. A lot of folks got their modules removed. But that exploit had been reported months prior. Who actually got a temp shadowban? The guy who disclosed the exploit to the wider community.
Not exactly. Harry was the one that disclosed the exploit through a bug forum post on an alt as directed by FDev themselves. Harry reached out to FDev directly with PMs and they told him "we can't recreate it, post it on the public bug forums and we'll take a look at it."

The guy that got a temp ban made a video on how to do it and then, on FDev's own forum, said they weren't going to do anything about it and essentially dared them to ban him.
(Thanks to Ryan_m17 for the clarification)

Then, and only then, was that issue fixed, and it took a fair bit more time for the poor underlying design to be remedied.

This is not a new problem. Botters have also been a major issue for some time (for the PvE folks). When you put your game on sale very cheaply as Fdev occasionally has, it is easy to buy up many alts with which to evade bans. That is, of course, when they are actually caught.

So again. These words are cheap. Show us what you are doing about this. In particular, I suggest:

-Splurging a little on an actual anti-cheat solution, e.g. Battleye, and telling us about it. That is of course only part of a complete package but would be a good start and would help restore confidence.

-It is not enough to just tell us to use the report tool. Take a note from PUBG and others and tell us when our reports have resulted in action, and ideally what action has been taken. That will also discourage frivolous reports as it will show that reports actually get attention.

-Compile these into stats and publish them on a regular basis, perhaps quarterly. And don't be afraid to name CMDRs who have been caught cheating. Publish a quarterly-to-monthly list of bans issued and reason categories. (optimally, only name them on the second and third "strike"). You want to discourage ToS violations? This is how you do it, and this is how you show people you mean business when it comes to enforcing your ToS. Right now, that is not the impression we have.

-Disclose to us your procedures and ramifications from report to ban. At the very least, give us some confidence that those who are shadowbanned can have no effect on the main galaxy... be it BGS, Powerplay, or exploration credit. Right now the only concrete and specific information we have on your procedures comes from secondary sources.

-Don't be afraid to permaban. I somehow suspect that cheaters don't buy a lot of paint jobs. And no, you don't have to refund cheaters if you ban them for ToS violations!

-Finally, don't give us this "only a small amount" stuff when it comes to cheaters. First off, that is only the amount you caught. That may be the case, but in a game where some activities take hours to months (some BGS work and PowerPlay in particular) and that work can be reversed with far less time and effort by some script kiddie with a fleet of untouchable bot-alts, that is a recipe for causing your most dedicated players to ragequit.

I mean... what if a cheater found Raxxla? I imagine that would cause quite a hullabulloo.

TLDR: Be accountable to your community who have to this point been very forgiving. As of right now, you have left us without confidence that this cheat problem is being competently worked on, and without confidence that our reports of players and bugs are being addressed. Show us you are addressing our concerns. And be specific. Canned, empty placation attempts like this are not going to cut it.
 
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The Replicated Man

T
Ah, good. Once this gets fixed in whenever, hopefully the topic of combat logging as a means to cheat rebuy screens can finally be addressed as well.
Why log when you can get a free bailout by FDEV themselves right? Another thing that shouldn't be IMO. Maybe under extreme circumstances (game bug etc) but not death by X CMDR.
 

ryan_m

Banned
Someone brought up the 2.X engineering exploit. A lot of folks got their modules removed. But that exploit had been reported months prior. Who actually got a temp shadowban? The guy who disclosed the exploit to the wider community.


Not exactly. Harry was the one that disclosed the exploit through a bug forum post on an alt as directed by FDev themselves. Harry reached out to FDev directly with PMs and they told him "we can't recreate it, post it on the public bug forums and we'll take a look at it."

The guy that got a temp ban made a video on how to do it and then, on FDev's own forum, said they weren't going to do anything about it and essentially dared them to ban him.
 
<Snippy Snip>

-Splurging a little on an actual anti-cheat solution, e.g. Battleye, and telling us about it. That is of course only part of a complete package but would be a good start and would help restore confidence.

<Snippy Snip>
I don't think going into this much detail is helpful and will tip off cheaters to how they are investigated. Probably a small update once in a while, saying that X number of players have had their commanders wiped or banned is all that's needed.

The main problem is the perception of cheating. If people know that there are easily available tools that give an unfair advantage then every time they get killed in a PvP fight or a player pirate attack, they're just going assume that whosoever beat them had used those cheat tools and report them. That's going to a nightmare for support to filter through.
 
Is using programs like ED ENGINEER or Ed discovery going to be counted as cheats?

They use and upload journal data to 3rd party sites.
So I hope this won't cause accidental banning now.


Also, overlays, like discord and steam, in certain games people were already falsely banned due to some 3rd patch programs that run in the background with elite.
 
Can we detect it? Nope. You can cheat all you want from solo and affect all of the universe. Hur dur, all modes equal!
Can we stop it? Nope. If you can't detect it, we can't stop it either.
Can we post another boiler-plate corporate speak threat? Yes!

Good job FDEV, keep up the... Something?
 
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