Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

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znôrt

znôrt
Agony_Aunt said:
I'm not saying you are a liar, per se. But all too often people declare "devs are lazy" or "devs don't care" or "dev's didn't do anything", all just declarations with nothing to back them up.
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so you are just implying he's a liar? good, good ... 😛

no, i get it. you don't trust him. i understand very well, i don't trust frontier. not a word.
all being equal, i look at the effects: i don't really see the point of sollisb lying in this one.

i have very little doubt that the cheat was reported. early. if anything because this is a pattern we've already seen, and not only once.

the rest may be embellished? doesn't really change the facts. also ...

Agony_Aunt said:
And your final point is also strange. What do you mean they could't replicate it? Its a cheat tool. You use it. If they had the tool, it would work (presumably). Maybe you mean they couldn't use the tool? That would be a bit strange.. its not exactly rocket science, cheaters are not always the brigest people.
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that's pausible. it could have been a junior qa, or a support guy just trying to be helpful. there are lots of juniors in frontier. that doesn't mean that there aren't any seniors there worth their salt. if anything there are serious doubts that they did put their talent to work, or were instructed or even allowed to do so, regarding this issue.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Un1k0rn said:
No, but the customers who fund said shareholder's payouts certainly read the forum.
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Indeed. But we have been here before. Just over a year ago. Same rage on the forums and elsewhere. FD saying they are dealing with it. Rage continues. People demanding FD do something. Declarations that people will quit (many of those still here, raging on the forums again). The same arguments. And eventually, FD did a ban wave and blocked the cheat, for a while, until the hackers found a way around it.

The Wheel of Time turns, and months come and pass, leaving forum posts that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the cheaters become active again.

In short, this forum at times has a damn short memory.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
znôrt said:
so you are just implying he's a liar? good, good ... 😛

no, i get it. you don't trust him. i understand very well, i don't trust frontier. not a word.
all being equal, i look at the effects: i don't really see the point of sollisb lying in this one.

i have very little doubt that the cheat was reported. early. if anything because this is a pattern we've already seen, and not only once.

the rest may be embellished? doesn't really change the facts. also ...



that's pausible. it could have been a junior qa, or a support guy just trying to be helpful. there are lots of juniors in frontier. that doesn't mean that there aren't any seniors there worth their salt. if anything there are serious doubts that they did put their talent to work, or were instructed or even allowed to do so, regarding this issue.
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I'm saying he has no proof of his statement, therefore his statement is suspect.

If i said there is a planet orbiting alpha centauri with beautiful green skinned ladies on it, i think people would want proof of that statement first right? (and if i could make proof, i think investment into long term space flight would suddenly increase!).

I'm pretty sure FD have been monitoring the cheats and their use constantly since the last time they had to handle a rash of cheating. The reports help them indetify people who might be using them and help focus their investigations, but won't alter much about how they work. What helps them most is probably getting their hands on the lastest version of the cheat since the hackers now are apparently careful about who they let have access. Which is probably the best thing that came out of SDC blowing the lid on this. It means its harder for other potential cheaters to get their hands on it.... but perhaps not too hard, after all, the hackers will want to share their work, little use making a hack if people can't praise your genius ;)
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
ryan_m said:
They have all been sent FDev's way along with tickets when they happened. One specific person that was blatantly hacking (600 m/s Conda, infinite shields) at CGs for weeks in 2018 was spotted during DW2 at Sag A, so let that one sink in. He didn't have his hacks on and we smoked him, but he is still able to play in open.
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Maybe his account was banned, and he just created a new one with the same name. It presumes of course that a removed account frees up the name. I suppose someone who plays Ironman or who has done a wipe can confirm that.
 

znôrt

znôrt
Agony_Aunt said:
I'm pretty sure FD have been monitoring the cheats and their use constantly since the last time they had to handle a rash of cheating. The reports help them indetify people who might be using them and help focus their investigations, but won't alter much about how they work. What helps them most is probably getting their hands on the lastest version of the cheat since the hackers now are apparently careful about who they let have access. Which is probably the best thing that came out of SDC blowing the lid on this. It means its harder for other potential cheaters to get their hands on it.... but perhaps not too hard, after all, the hackers will want to share their work, little use making a hack if people can't praise your genius ;)
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sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me.

otoh they better change radically some aspects of how they work, because it doesn't appear to be working. imo they are wasting precious time and it looks worse and worse, so they better (for all) have an ace up thier sleeve. your positiveness and faith is commendable, though!
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Replicant said:
I consider both just as bad. Combat Logging in any form is cheating
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Menu log is not considered cheating by FD, and they are the arbiter of what is cheating and what isn't. Someone could declare using VA is cheating, and its a fine line depending on how its used, but FD have said using VA isn't cheating, and apparently Braben uses VA.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
znôrt said:
sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me.

otoh they better change radically some aspects of how they work, because it doesn't appear to be working. imo they are wasting precious time and it looks worse and worse, so they better (for all) have an ace up thier sleeve. your positiveness and faith is commendable, though!
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Of course, i can't be certain, its just likely all things considered. Its certainly more likely than people suggesting FD don't care and are doing nothing.
 

Arry

Arry

znôrt

znôrt
Agony_Aunt said:
Menu log is not considered cheating by FD, and they are the arbiter of what is cheating and what isn't. Someone could declare using VA is cheating, and its a fine line depending on how its used, but FD have said using VA isn't cheating, and apparently Braben uses VA.
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auntieeeee, get a grip already! menu logging is not combat logging!

combat logging is in the same boat as these cheats. it evidences the same cause and the same lackings. it just varies on the perceived importance, other than that it's exactly the same thing (and again, has nothing to do with 'menu log' which is just a legal loophole (i.e., mere TEXT) around combat logging).

people have grown used to accept combat logging (and frontier's bizzarre stance on it) as a minor wrong. i don't think they will just carry on with these cheat-o-matics around, that's the only difference.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Thepirateorc said:
Does this mean that players who actively combat log against me can get banned or punished?
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If they task kill or pull the cable, then yes. If they exit via the menu, then no.

If they stop manouvering and you hit them but they don't take damage, then its likely they task killed. If they are taking damage, then its likely they are looking at the countdown timer and will vanish when the timer is up (unless you kill them first).

Whether they get punished or not is unknown. SDC have some strong words on the matter about this.
 

dreampage

dreampage
I think Frontier should fix the game so cheats cannot be used by anyone, especially not at this scale. One player got huge publicity and they banned him, big deal. But firstly, he was already using the cheats for a long time and secondly, he could only be banned because he stood out and showed himself. There are still others who play just fine with the cheats. The whole software (or whatever it is) should be locked down permanently because banning one or two players will solve nothing. This is one of the rare occurrences when I'm glad I play on console, we don't have cheaters like this, at least to the best of our knowledge.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
znôrt said:
auntieeeee, get a grip already! menu logging is not combat logging!
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Hah, do you not keep up with the rhetoric around here? Do you not know that menu loggers also get published on the combat loggers subreddit?

For some people, menu logging is a heinous crime that should be punishable with 50 lashes or more!
 

sollisb

Banned
S
Agony_Aunt said:
I'm not saying you are a liar, per se. But all too often people declare "devs are lazy" or "devs don't care" or "dev's didn't do anything", all just declarations with nothing to back them up.

Now, what do you mean they went missing from your forum account? How is that possible? You couldn't upload pics to the forum. The usual method for posting on the forums images is to upload somewhere like imgur and then link it. So, again, this makes me somewhat skeptical.

And your final point is also strange. What do you mean they could't replicate it? Its a cheat tool. You use it. If they had the tool, it would work (presumably). Maybe you mean they couldn't use the tool? That would be a bit strange.. its not exactly rocket science, cheaters are not always the brigest people.
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I was talking about the 5-1 cheat/exploit.

CMDR, I really don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. It is blatantly obvious to most other people that cheating/exploiting/modifying stats is happening. I respect that you are trying to have FDevs back on this and am fine with that, but the fact is, for all to see, is that Fdev only react (and even then, under duress it seems), and when they do, it's to ban to solo. Any other MMO that Ive heard of banning cheaters was to ban then to the trash can.

This is not Paige's fault or anyone on the community team, it's down to a systematic failure at company level.

I may have it wrong, but I feel, players want to know and feel assured, that the other player they see on screen, is not hacking or cheating his ship to god levels. Nothing we have seen or heard from FDev instills any form of confidence with me in relatioin to that.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
dreampage said:
I think Frontier should fix the game so cheats cannot be used by anyone, especially not at this scale.
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Easier said that done. Source: Me, ex-hacker.

The devs have to make it a real pain for the hackers, so much so that they just give up. Its harder than it sounds. There are methods, but they can come with a cost.
 

rOmiLaYu

rOmiLaYu
Agony_Aunt said:
Exactly. They are saying as much as they are willing to say. I've said from the start the best we can expect from FD is some sort of canned response of we are dealing with it.

FD are not going to say any more than that (based off past experience, including the last time there was a big hooha over cheating). Maybe one day they will change their stance on this, but today is not the day.
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Not to be too pendantic but you did say first that FDev had said what they "can" say...and now you're saying that they have said "what they're willing" to say. Those two are far apart indeed.
 
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