Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

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Slange Lands

Slange Lands
Commander Danicus said:
Oh I don't think people are so black and white about inspiration and cynicism. People loved Lance Armstrong for his cycling achievements, his overcoming cancer, his public service, BUT they also reveled in his fall from grace - his race cheating, leaving his wife, etc. etc. Did his actions call into doubt the fairness and trust in the sport - of course. People still watch the race though...

As far as this game goes though, we're talking about a niche community with tension between pve and pvp communities. Sprinkle a bit of cheating on top, and you don't have a healthy mix for expanding the community.
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In light of the new expansion coming, I would dearly love to see more Carebears and other PvE folk in Open. I wish there was a way to persuade PvEers that many PvPers are not gankers and that we would very much welcome their presence in Open - without having to get good, without any stipulation. The lawful presence in Open is growing in light of this, especially because we know if more Commanders feel safer, more Commanders will play with us. Perhaps it is a pipe dream, but so is the game.

:)
 

VerticalBlank

VerticalBlank
Slange Lands said:
In light of the new expansion coming, I would dearly love to see more Carebears and other PvE folk in Open. I wish there was a way to persuade PvEers that many PvPers are not gankers and that we would very much welcome their presence in Open - without having to get good, without any stipulation. The lawful presence in Open is growing in light of this, especially because we know if more Commanders feel safer, more Commanders will play with us. Perhaps it is a pipe dream, but so is the game.

:)
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It's a pipe dream as long as extremely engineered builds can in effect stun-lock and dismantle any build within seconds. Before Engineers, I was perfectly happy to fly in Open as I knew that flying skills gave me a very good chance of escape. Engineers killed that.
 

LINKSTER1666

LINKSTER1666
Well started early yesterday morning my time, just as CG started, flew 10 hours, had a paltry 9-10,000 ton. Check this morning at 24 hrs in and there's my tonnage and someone with 35000 ton/ Now that amount is possible if you flew for 24 hours.

It's possible, but usually the whole Top Ten Commanders are bots.

And NOTHING they can do.
 

Mazelinho

M
Imperial eagles and Kraits in starter systems? Possibly another aspect of cheating: Jumping into permit locked systems.

Other explanations from the top of my head:
  • The wing nav lock feature is exploitable
  • someone at Frontier used the admin console.

Screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/CsyPb52
Source: https://imgur.com/a/CsyPb52

cheaters-dromi.png
cheaters-matet.png
 

Goose4291

Banned
Goose4291
mazelinho said:
Imperial eagles and Kraits in starter systems? Possibly another aspect of cheating: Jumping into permit locked systems.

Other explanations from the top of my head:
  • The wing nav lock feature is exploitable
  • someone at Frontier used the admin console.

Screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/CsyPb52
Source: https://imgur.com/a/CsyPb52

View attachment 134791
View attachment 134792
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Also: there was a Kickstarter pledge tier that got you an i-eagle as a starter ship. Might be someone with that doing a wipe?
 

sgurr

S
VerticalBlank said:
It's a pipe dream as long as extremely engineered builds can in effect stun-lock and dismantle any build within seconds. Before Engineers, I was perfectly happy to fly in Open as I knew that flying skills gave me a very good chance of escape. Engineers killed that.
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That's not my experience.

I flew for the Sagittarius CG, was interdicted 5 or 6 times in a single evening, 2-4 ships each, and got away every time without losing shields.
Fly an engineered 256t cargo python with an appropriate setup and a ready system to jump to and just wait to try again if the FSD is rebooted.

It can be done, was more irritating than anything.
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
Sgurr said:
That's not my experience.

I flew for the Sagittarius CG, was interdicted 5 or 6 times in a single evening, 2-4 ships each, and got away every time without losing shields.
Fly an engineered 256t cargo python with an appropriate setup and a ready system to jump to and just wait to try again if the FSD is rebooted.

It can be done, was more irritating than anything.
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Indeed, for those of us that can tolerate engineering, escape is not difficult. But there are those of us who can't tolerate the engineering grind. Should an abhorrence for engineering automatically exclude one from Open? Hence my non-engineered Open mode private group.

o7
 

sgurr

S
That's a great idea, nice one.

Point taken about the engineering, however for those averse a decent setup is possible with 1st tier engineers, and adding one non arduous 2nd tier (50 markets) could give you equivalent defence to my python.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
I've been trying to follow this discussion here and elsewhere as closely as I can. A few thoughts have coalesced and I think I'm ready to share them. Gonna be working on a couple presumptions here.

1) There's likely a discussion going on inside FDEV right now that mirrors this one.
2) FDEV (somewhat famously ;) ) don't play Elite as much as we do. Our perspective as players is crucial.

It's a shame that cheats exist, but hey, humans gonna human amirite? As far as what to do, that's up to FDEV in the end. For the sake of the game and its integrity between players the best cheat detection possible and brutally swift punishments to boot should be the norm. I'm not a computer programmer so I'll leave that discussion to more qualified minds than mine.

As far as being a long time player of this game I will say that it absolutely has to be addressed. Keep us informed, FDEV. Don't be shy. Go get the suckers that think this kind of behavior is alright. In the meantime, I'm sure more people than me are happy to hold down the fort best we can with all the discussion surrounding it.

Just get it done. Simple as that.

Kudos again to the folks that recently brought this issue to the forefront. The game will be better for it.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Goose4291
Slange Lands said:
Indeed, for those of us that can tolerate engineering, escape is not difficult. But there are those of us who can't tolerate the engineering grind. Should an abhorrence for engineering automatically exclude one from Open? Hence my non-engineered Open mode private group.

o7
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I'd suggest I and by extension most folk could safely walk away from most interdictions in any unengineered ship that's sized Type 7 and Above in terms of tanking, and most ships below that size in terms of evasive manuvering.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Slange Lands said:
What makes me sad about a "Is so and so cheating?" atmosphere is that players are more likely to accuse others of cheating and players are less likely to give others the benefit of the doubt. This is a fetid and toxic mindset to have, and in my opinion, psychologically unhealthy and dispiriting...
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LINKSTER1666 said:
Well started early yesterday morning my time, just as CG started, flew 10 hours, had a paltry 9-10,000 ton. Check this morning at 24 hrs in and there's my tonnage and someone with 35000 ton/ Now that amount is possible if you flew for 24 hours.

It's possible, but usually the whole Top Ten Commanders are bots.
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Talk about "everyone is cheating atmosphere" ...

@LINKSTER1666 dude, you are confusing dedication with cheating. But you are not the only one to make some wrong assumptions.
This poopoostorm started mainly because someone saw 2-3 hackers everyday during streams, apparently.

I took part in every CG since February and in each and every one of them i was either TTC or Top10%
XBox player here btw, with a lot of spare time and still in ED honeymoon.

I registered on Inara for less than 2 weeks, so below are only latest contributions

134798
 

aRJay

aRJay
LINKSTER1666 said:
Well started early yesterday morning my time, just as CG started, flew 10 hours, had a paltry 9-10,000 ton. Check this morning at 24 hrs in and there's my tonnage and someone with 35000 ton/ Now that amount is possible if you flew for 24 hours.

It's possible, but usually the whole Top Ten Commanders are bots.

And NOTHING they can do.
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35,000 tonnes divide by 730 (cutter) equals 48 trips at 20 minutes per trip is 960 minutes is 16 hours which is doable if more than I would be prepared to do, going shieldless will take another hour off that time and the 20 minute round trip is based on my T9 jumping 3 out and 4 back a cutter is likely to be quicker. Now breaks would be needed but that tonnage could be done well within 24 hours.

Just because you have hauled over 3 times more than I have doesn’t entitle me to suggest you are a bot anymore than it entitles you to imply that someone who does the same to you is a bot.

Could all the top 10 slots at a CG be bots possibly but saying it is usually the case is a bit strong especially as there are normally no significant benefits, not even financially in game, of top 10 above top 10% so why take the risk.
 

Northpin

Northpin
aRJay said:
35,000 tonnes divide by 730 (cutter) equals 48 trips at 20 minutes per trip is 960 minutes is 16 hours which is doable if more than I would be prepared to do, going shieldless will take another hour off that time and the 20 minute round trip is based on my T9 jumping 3 out and 4 back a cutter is likely to be quicker. Now breaks would be needed but that tonnage could be done well within 24 hours.
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If you really want the TTC tag, you can do it with 1 jump trips.
There are supplies of 1000000 superconductors within 25ly and at stations closer than 50ls from jump point.
That makes a trip like 8 minutes or about 5kt+ per hour haulage in a 720t cutter
 

LINKSTER1666

LINKSTER1666
Hey, I'm just saying that it is happening.

You are suggesting that more than 10 people are flying 24/7 for 7 days.

I did the math too, a year ago when I noticed the unlikely.
 

Northpin

Northpin
LINKSTER1666 said:
Hey, I'm just saying that it is happening.

You are suggesting that more than 10 people are flying 24/7 for 7 days.

I did the math too, a year ago when I noticed the unlikely.
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I just told you that one can easily do 5000t per hour. If you chose to believe that TTC haulers are bots... it's your choice
You doing 10000 in 10 hours, well... i will say no more.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Goose4291
Attack Chimp said:
I guess if I popped a few Alpha Brains, chugged coffee all day, an did nothing other than haulsupplies, I might be able to last as long as sixteen and one half minutes.

So mind-numbingly boring, it's got to be a bot.
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What's really annoying is that if you do it in open, it's actually challenging and engaging.

My brain is sparking like a badly oiled piston when I'm running a CG.
 
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