Modes PvP CQC A way to revive CQC inside the game

[Emijfa]

Hi commanders,

I bring an idea to try to revive CQC and implement it in the game as something optional but very realistic, fun and with rewards. It's a way I've always liked it but I hardly see people to play it. In addition it would also serve as a PVP element with balanced ships. Maybe this idea has been commented before but I don't know, sorry if that's the case.

We are in dangerous times where targoids cause chaos and dozens of stations are destroyed and there is a fear for the future of the bubble. The powers and systems are in constant conflict which makes life hard for commanders and citizens.

That is why CQC could be implemented within the game as the galactic sport. A sport where the most skilled and daring commanders fight for fame and glory (and some money, of course, the luxurious life of a famous person is not cheap).
The existence of this sport would be something totally realistic since societies have always had and have entertainment activities to keep their citizens entertained and be a topic of conversation.

How could it be implemented within our universe? They could exist:

• Certain stations distributed by the bubble will be points of reference of this sport and where the commanders could sign up to participate and the citizens come to see it.
• There will be weekly and even monthly events that grant exclusive rewards such as fame, paintings, accessories, ranks, power merits, credits, etc. for our ships and our commanders.
• Participations may be limited (say 2 or 3 a week)
• The classification system can either be eliminatory or score points according to the position obtained
• To eliminate waiting times in the creation of games, NPCs with an appropriate range will be added.
• Each station could have its own CQC map of existing ones.
• The ships would be the existing ones, being able to be more customizable.
• Apart from fighting to the death, there could also be a racing mode (typical of games going through rings in the air) to measure only the ability of the driver driving through difficult environments.

I could detail it a little more but I don't want to make this thread endless.
I would like to know your opinions and suggestions for improvement. I know it is a simulation game and I think that maybe many commanders would not want to have a sport like "soccer" in Elite, but if you think about it it is totally realistic and would perfectly implement CQC on a optional activity.

Thanks for reading. Greetings Commanders

 

[NCFCpaul]

Actually I think it's a really good idea, make it something of a league structure perhaps? People just wanting to have a go could simply sign on almost anywhere. As you work up the ranks you get more structure.

So the guys who really tear the place apart, the ones who make it look really easy on YouTube could be put into a location all in equal ships. Rather than the stuff on Galnet FDev could put out a weekly highlights show.

If the rewards were (really) good as well as the kudos I could imagine buy in from the best people out there. The top guys also could be doing best of several rounds all in G5 engineered ships, an FDL round, a big three round, a Viper round and so on.

It kind of is a bit like CQC but within the realm of the game and really good prizes, not to mention the all important kudos

 

[Tiili]

Hell yeah, I'll throw in an idea that's a bit like racing.... TAG!

No weapons of course, just 2 commanders trying to catch each other in turn. Perhaps radarless hide & seek could be a thing too

 

[Alwayslate]

I had been playing FFXIV when I was taking a break from Elite. Conclusion: An arena won't work well in a PVE focused game, even with frequent updating, balancing and rewards, because people don't play the game for the arena.

 

[Solsticide]

Something like the below would be a start. It's been proven possible with the training exercises, so why not Arena?

Spoiler

 

[Emijfa]

Actually I think it's a really good idea, make it something of a league structure perhaps? People just wanting to have a go could simply sign on almost anywhere. As you work up the ranks you get more structure.

So the guys who really tear the place apart, the ones who make it look really easy on YouTube could be put into a location all in equal ships. Rather than the stuff on Galnet FDev could put out a weekly highlights show.

If the rewards were (really) good as well as the kudos I could imagine buy in from the best people out there. The top guys also could be doing best of several rounds all in G5 engineered ships, an FDL round, a big three round, a Viper round and so on.

It kind of is a bit like CQC but within the realm of the game and really good prizes, not to mention the all important kudos

Yes, something like that could fit, a system of leagues or ranks that face you against other players or even put a solitary but really challenging and varied way that is worthwhile.

I could even add as I think you say current ships, since normally the PvP and most battles are usually in the space where there are no obstacles, and add a PvP or races with obstacles, passages, extra hazards, etc. I could take full advantage of the simulation and driving of the ships in Elite Dangerous, giving more importance regarding the environment to the weight of the ships, their engines, their speed of rotation, their size, etc ...

Something like the below would be a start. It's been proven possible with the training exercises, so why not Arena?

Spoiler

Just something like that would fit perfectly! Amazing Solsticide

I had been playing FFXIV when I was taking a break from Elite. Conclusion: An arena won't work well in a PVE focused game, even with frequent updating, balancing and rewards, because people don't play the game for the arena.

The sand does not have to replace the essence Pve of Elite, it is something optional and that is already done outside, it would simply be to optionally implement it inside, to simply expand and improve the experience. It could even bring in new players that would make the game grow.

That said, I think that the simulation and flight of the game is not fully exploited and this could do it, remembering that it is also a way already done, it would only be included inside.

Thanks all for your comments.
Greating commanders.

 

[MUSKETEER]

There is no problem with CQC in its gameplay. It's PvP and it should stay that way.
The problem is that Elite Dangerous population is mainly snowflakes not tough enough for PvP.
I came to ED from a proper PvP games and this is what hit me straight away.

Many people won't play CQC or will complain about CQC because they don't like PvP. They don't really care about CQC or how to make it objectively better. Many just want to grind the rank easy way, that's all they care about.

Main game has Training Mode, I think some simple CQC training mode should be implemented too, so new people can learn about power ups and get familiar with the maps.
Also CQC should be more rewarding in terms of CR and materials maybe.
Decals for CQC elite / quad elite players, please.
In game info (in one of the panels) how many people queue in CQC lobby / currently play CQC etc. with button to enter the arena simulation, and join CQC.

 

[Lateralus]

The way to revive CQC is simple, allow main ship PvP within the CQC environment. PvP'ers want to fight with the ships they've built up over time, not infinitely respawning throwaway fighters. For example, when do players fight against eachother with fighters in the main game? Never happens, fighters are only used as an extra hardpoint.

You could have leagues, fight options (engineering/synth on /off), ship type options (large/medium/small/specific). Instancing would no longer be an issue... it would be great.

I doubt it will happen though because Fdev do not seem interested in expanding or updating CQC.

 

[MUSKETEER]

It would be nice to have an arena where matches can be arranged from any place in the galaxy (without flying to any system) and our main game ships used.

 

[Lateralus]

It would be nice to have an arena where matches can be arranged from any place in the galaxy (without flying to any system) and our main game ships used.

Yep, would get around all sorts of issues the PvP community face with arranged fights and tournaments like the PvP league.

 

[Tiili]

It would be nice to have an arena where matches can be arranged from any place in the galaxy (without flying to any system) and our main game ships used.

you guys are on to something epic here

 

[Lateralus]

you guys are on to something epic here

Here is the main idea I posted some time back: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/suggestion-cqc-duel-mode.424093/

(Sorry OP for hijacking your thread).

 

[obliterator]

The only thing they need to do is to simply allow the players to join queues while playing the game. This change alone would make all the difference.

Other suggestions like being able to bring your actual ship are nice, but they wont revive cqc unless proper matchmaking is in place.

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

Why stop at main game ships? How about make CQC the "Coriolis.io/EDSY ship configurator with a test drive option" and allow a freely (*) configured ship to enter an instance, each instance having specific rules such as whether ships come with a full inventory of materials, whether synth is allowed/not, whether premium ammo allowed/not, etc. You could have the matchmaking engine search for instances with rules flagged ( "ignore matches with premium ammo allowed" ), preferred opponents or companions ( for wing matches ) , preferred locations ( deep space only, ring, above low-G/high-G - surface , ...) .

(*) Add a points system where matches could be limited to x points and each ship / module has a points value. Could set up some low point limit matches and make sure nobody takes a Corvette into a Viper - Courier - type match, or if they do, it'll be just an empty shell. Apply point limits to wing matches and let the teams come up with the best way to distribute those points across multiple ships, having ships come with very obvious strengths and weaknesses, and thus very specific roles for the fight.

I can see the potential value in taking my main game ship into a duel that's not limited by my location and ships nearby. But letting me test drive my theorycrafted ships in a controlled setting, with zero grind for some G5 Unobtanium or a rank in the Banjo Players' Guild? That would be even better. Sure, there's the depth of surviving to the station, avoiding interdictions, etc.,and personally I think I would still enjoy the organic play of Open most of the time, but I think a CQC like this could take on a life of its own and not be just a cheap supplement to Open.

 

[Emijfa]

Here is the main idea I posted some time back: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/suggestion-cqc-duel-mode.424093/

(Sorry OP for hijacking your thread).

Your idea is amazing and your post could be easily implemented within the game. The only thing that I may not see much sense is to "teleport" to play CQC when you are in another place, but if it could be implemented with a theoretically with a remote control? That is, you can use your ships but not the one you control that moment, it is as if you had them in a garage and took control of it remotely to perform CQC.

For the rest, your analysis of the current CQC is very successful and I liked your solutions a lot. Thus, we could play PvP without having to specifically meet people for that and stay at a specific time, etc. It is very difficult.

The only thing they need to do is to simply allow the players to join queues while playing the game. This change alone would make all the difference.

Other suggestions like being able to bring your actual ship are nice, but they wont revive cqc unless proper matchmaking is in place.

Excellent contribution Many times we do not play CQC for having to be on a loading screen without doing anything waiting for players who do not even know if they currently exist in the queues. Although I would have to give some warning to get out of compromised situations (imagine that you enter a CQC game in half battle with a pirate. It could not be)

Why stop at main game ships? How about make CQC the "Coriolis.io/EDSY ship configurator with a test drive option" and allow a freely (*) configured ship to enter an instance, each instance having specific rules such as whether ships come with a full inventory of materials, whether synth is allowed/not, whether premium ammo allowed/not, etc. You could have the matchmaking engine search for instances with rules flagged ( "ignore matches with premium ammo allowed" ), preferred opponents or companions ( for wing matches ) , preferred locations ( deep space only, ring, above low-G/high-G - surface , ...) .

(*) Add a points system where matches could be limited to x points and each ship / module has a points value. Could set up some low point limit matches and make sure nobody takes a Corvette into a Viper - Courier - type match, or if they do, it'll be just an empty shell. Apply point limits to wing matches and let the teams come up with the best way to distribute those points across multiple ships, having ships come with very obvious strengths and weaknesses, and thus very specific roles for the fight.

I can see the potential value in taking my main game ship into a duel that's not limited by my location and ships nearby. But letting me test drive my theorycrafted ships in a controlled setting, with zero grind for some G5 Unobtanium or a rank in the Banjo Players' Guild? That would be even better. Sure, there's the depth of surviving to the station, avoiding interdictions, etc.,and personally I think I would still enjoy the organic play of Open most of the time, but I think a CQC like this could take on a life of its own and not be just a cheap supplement to Open.

The idea is fine on paper, but I think it would break the essence of Elite. That is, you play elite to prepare your ships and achieve a goal. For example, I want to have an Anaconda with X weapons and X utilities and try and enjoy it. Maybe it convinces me or maybe not, but the game is based largely on realizing that path having that illusion.
To be able to use any ship without limitations in an instant, I would lose, from my point of view, the excitement of discovering new ships and creating unique ships with a job behind, because you would easily try them all.
Now, if it is true that I would like to try combinations without spending hours and hours to reap it but ... it's just my opinion.

Thank you all for your participation and contributions and ideas!!!

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

you play elite to prepare your ships and achieve a goal.

Unfortunately I agree that for a PvP combat pilot the game is largely just preparing for the gameplay proper. But as long as these theorycrafted ships aren't let loose in the world, it's still a very limited arena fighting game mode, and not a direct competitor to the main game. Besides, even if it was, would it be a problem? Let people stay in the Counterstrike mode if they don't care for the RPG. This is already in the spirit of CQC, it's just that the effort put into CQC vs the main game makes the CQC not really a viable alternative.

 

[Sethiest]

The problem with "using your own ship" is that it largely misses the point of CQC in the first place. Personally, I don't think you should be able to use your own ship, here's three reasons why;

1. CQC has always been "pick up and play". If CMDRs had to use their own ship, they'd have to pour countless hours into engineering their ship. This would gate off CQC to many people.
2. Ship loadouts are the fairest way to level the playing field. Look at every other deathmatch game, the most you can hope for are loadouts and perks that's avaiable to everyone. Because it's fair.
3. Do you want CQC to be FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL? Because that's what you'll get. Elite isn't exactly the most balanced in a PVP context right now. Shields and PA's everywhere. There are so many variables in the ships customisations that people would take ships that aren't optimised and eventually everything would be funnelled into a FDL party. Which would be fair because everyone would be using the same loadout. But is that what we want CQC to be?

CQC isn't the most popular, and i'd love it to be. But using your own ship is a terrible idea IMO. You can already use your own ship and experiment with loadouts in Elite already, it doesn't need to be in CQC.

CQC style combat with your own ship is not a bad idea by any mean. There should be more ingame means of taking part in that rather than relying on community run events.

 

[MUSKETEER]

But the idea of PvP arena alongside the CQC Arena where we could use main game ships and organise matches is nice. Just the arena for easy access PvP from any place in the galaxy like current CQC arena, with the selection of maps, no power ups, no high/low wake. You leave the match you lose. You leave the arena you you die once the timer is up same like in CQC arena.
It would be nice if we could outfit and engeneer those ships for arena use in the arena menu (that way we can test our builds easily without wasting our mats on experimenting) and no rebuy cost same as CQC arena.

I wonder how much more popular than CQC it would be. I love CQC, but I would definitely try PvP arena too.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

The problem with "using your own ship" is that it largely misses the point of CQC in the first place. Personally, I don't think you should be able to use your own ship, here's three reasons why;

1. CQC has always been "pick up and play". If CMDRs had to use their own ship, they'd have to pour countless hours into engineering their ship. This would gate off CQC to many people.
2. Ship loadouts are the fairest way to level the playing field. Look at every other deathmatch game, the most you can hope for are loadouts and perks that's avaiable to everyone. Because it's fair.
3. Do you want CQC to be FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL? Because that's what you'll get. Elite isn't exactly the most balanced in a PVP context right now. Shields and PA's everywhere. There are so many variables in the ships customisations that people would take ships that aren't optimised and eventually everything would be funnelled into a FDL party. Which would be fair because everyone would be using the same loadout. But is that what we want CQC to be?

CQC isn't the most popular, and i'd love it to be. But using your own ship is a terrible idea IMO. You can already use your own ship and experiment with loadouts in Elite already, it doesn't need to be in CQC.

CQC style combat with your own ship is not a bad idea by any mean. There should be more ingame means of taking part in that rather than relying on community run events.

combat in your own ship may not work well for the reasons you stated, but for the racing events it really should be your suped up ship. definitely regulated to ship leagues, but bringing your own rally ship would give it so much character.

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

All the more reasons not to limit the ships/modules to the players' main game equipment. Having the matchmaking rules extend to ships and modules, you could have "hull tanks only" "small ships only" or similar rules which would specifically mitigate the "FdL vs FdL vs FdL" - issue.

With CQC based on the "coriolis.io test drive" concept, you could test the viability of experimental configurations without actually losing the engineering materials before you commit to the build in the main game. Isn't this pretty much what used to happen in beta, and which produced results like TrueSilver's "all-gimbal all-pulse shieldless FdL" that had like a win streak of 20 duels straight?