Modes PvP CQC A way to revive CQC inside the game

[Lateralus]

The problem with "using your own ship" is that it largely misses the point of CQC in the first place. Personally, I don't think you should be able to use your own ship, here's three reasons why;

1. CQC has always been "pick up and play". If CMDRs had to use their own ship, they'd have to pour countless hours into engineering their ship. This would gate off CQC to many people.
2. Ship loadouts are the fairest way to level the playing field. Look at every other deathmatch game, the most you can hope for are loadouts and perks that's avaiable to everyone. Because it's fair.
3. Do you want CQC to be FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL vs FDL? Because that's what you'll get. Elite isn't exactly the most balanced in a PVP context right now. Shields and PA's everywhere. There are so many variables in the ships customisations that people would take ships that aren't optimised and eventually everything would be funnelled into a FDL party. Which would be fair because everyone would be using the same loadout. But is that what we want CQC to be?

CQC isn't the most popular, and i'd love it to be. But using your own ship is a terrible idea IMO. You can already use your own ship and experiment with loadouts in Elite already, it doesn't need to be in CQC.

CQC style combat with your own ship is not a bad idea by any mean. There should be more ingame means of taking part in that rather than relying on community run events.

1. It wouldn't replace current CQC, it would be an addition... In my thread I suggested the ability to turn engineering off. Welcome back pre-engineers PvP for the masses.

2. CQC isn't a level playing field, this is a common misconception, as you have to unlock weapons and modules with XP... When you start out you're extremely limited.

3. If CQC was to be opened to owned in game ships there would hopefully be a way to set match conditions, for example small / medium / large / specific ships only. Even if it was mainly players using FDL's it would still be a welcome addition to the game, especially if it came with leagues etc.

The no-rebuy & no travel time thing would draw a lot of players into PvP and make it much more accessible.

 

[Sethiest]

All the more reasons not to limit the ships/modules to the players' main game equipment. Having the matchmaking rules extend to ships and modules, you could have "hull tanks only" "small ships only" or similar rules which would specifically mitigate the "FdL vs FdL vs FdL" - issue.

With CQC based on the "coriolis.io test drive" concept, you could test the viability of experimental configurations without actually losing the engineering materials before you commit to the build in the main game. Isn't this pretty much what used to happen in beta, and which produced results like TrueSilver's "all-gimbal all-pulse shieldless FdL" that had like a win streak of 20 duels straight?

See now we're making things more complicated. Originally the point was CMDRs bring in their own ships. Now we're limiting what CMDRs can bring to specific fights. CQC doesn't have an FDL issue btw.

Besides what you're decribing is already in the game you know, theres just not an easy button to push and it be set up for you. And do you honestly think you'd find many games when you filter the search down as specific as you say. Furthermore, who is going to police this? Will the game say, "sorry buddy, you need 4k hull to be allowed to fight" and don't you think these fights would just be people flying with packhounds, scramble, seekers, penetrator or one of the 100 things that counter hulltanks. Or are we going to be speciifc about what weapons are allowed too?

No items, fox only, final destination.

1. It wouldn't replace current CQC, it would be an addition... In my thread I suggested the ability to turn engineering off. Welcome back pre-engineers PvP for the masses.

This thread is titled "A way to revive CQC inside the game". If we're talking about adding different modes to the game then that's another discussion.

2. CQC isn't a level playing field, this is a common misconception, as you have to unlock weapons and modules with XP... When you start out you're extremely limited.

Disagree, I've won matches against players 20 lvls higher than me. Their ships weren't overpowered. The differences aren't the same as say...I dunno....META ships vs anything else. CQC is a skill based game, a test of the pilots capabilities. It's not a test of the pilots dedication to the grind or a ships advantages over others.

3. If CQC was to be opened to owned in game ships there would hopefully be a way to set match conditions, for example small / medium / large / specific ships only. Even if it was mainly players using FDL's it would still be a welcome addition to the game, especially if it came with leagues etc.

See above.

The no-rebuy & no travel time thing would draw a lot of players into PvP and make it much more accessible.

This is what CQC already is. It wouldn't make sense to have your ownn specific ship in there with no stakes. People build and fight robots, do you think they get their time/money/energy refunded to them when their robot loses?

Anyway thats all just my opinion on it.

 

[Lateralus]

This thread is titled "A way to revive CQC inside the game". If we're talking about adding different modes to the game then that's another discussion.

It would come under CQC though, just a new part(a new option alongside capture the flag, death match etc). Evidently not many players are interested in the fighter game... Probably because It doesn't reflect main game PvP so most players aren't interested.

Disagree, I've won matches against players 20 lvls higher than me. Their ships weren't overpowered. The differences aren't the same as say...I dunno....META ships vs anything else. CQC is a skill based game, a test of the pilots capabilities. It's not a test of the pilots dedication to the grind or a ships advantages over others.

Players with more options have an advantage over players with less options.. whether you can beat players who are higher levels than you does not mean the playing field is level. For example when a player has unlocked the enhanced distributor or beam laser it gives them better odds than someone who has the default loadout.

This is what CQC already is. It wouldn't make sense to have your ownn specific ship in there with no stakes. People build and fight robots, do you think they get their time/money/energy refunded to them when their robot loses?

I don't folllow, Is this some kind of 'murshin' argument?
Giving players a way to participate in PvP with their main game ships without risk or travel distance would be great.. I do not understand why anyone would think it a bad idea. The stakes would be rank and league position, plus some bonuses for winning like credits or mats.

There is (or was!) a huge appetite for competitive PvP in this game, and a CQC-style environment would have been the perfect setting for organised duels as it would fix so many issues that have plagued events like the PvP league. Such as:

• Instancing issues
• Premium ammo (no need to do those ridiculously time-consuming ammo checks)
• Participants would not have to spend ages moving assets around before an organised fight
• Having to grind out a huge rebuy mountain just to take part in an event(s)
• Camera suite potentially used by spectators rather than having non-participant 'camera ships' in the arena
• Fighters losing eachother in unbound match areas (this happened with The Code Vs FUC)
• Gate-crashing on a fight would be impossible

So you see, the advantages to this system would be many.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Players with more options have an advantage over players with less options.. whether you can beat players who are higher levels than you does not mean the playing field is level. For example when a player has unlocked the enhanced distributor or beam laser it gives them better odds than someone who has the default loadout.

The beam laser's only real advantage is a slight range boost - it has the same DPS and far worse DPE than the stock pulse laser. Situationally useful, but not actually better.

Similarly the "enhanced distributors" come with a significant charge disadvantage on the other axes - you can have more engines and less weapons, or more weapons and less engines. (In early CQC the Imp Fighter's engines distributor was "less systems" and therefore a no-brainer - but they fixed that)

The rank 1 condor is a solid general purpose build which is very hard to beat ... by rank 8 (an hour or so for a skilled pilot) you can have every arguably worthwhile upgrade for it, too.

I literally can't think of a single player who I would lose to with the default loadout but beat if I had my choice of loadout - it makes that little difference compared with player skill.

 

[Lateralus]

The beam laser's only real advantage is a slight range boost - it has the same DPS and far worse DPE than the stock pulse laser. Situationally useful, but not actually better.

Similarly the "enhanced distributors" come with a significant charge disadvantage on the other axes - you can have more engines and less weapons, or more weapons and less engines. (In early CQC the Imp Fighter's engines distributor was "less systems" and therefore a no-brainer - but they fixed that)

The rank 1 condor is a solid general purpose build which is very hard to beat ... by rank 8 (an hour or so for a skilled pilot) you can have every arguably worthwhile upgrade for it, too.

I literally can't think of a single player who I would lose to with the default loadout but beat if I had my choice of loadout - it makes that little difference compared with player skill.

Some players flight styles may suit options that are unavailable to them from the outset... for example my personal style is to make use of the ENG capacitor a lot, when I move from the main game to CQC I struggle to get used to the slow recharge rate and it results in me struggling. When I equip the ENG focused distributor it makes a large difference to how well I do.

My point is, saying you wouldn't get beaten by someone based on loadout options may be the case for yourself, but for others loadout may be very important due to the way they fly or fight.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

My point is, saying you wouldn't get beaten by someone based on loadout options may be the case for yourself, but for others loadout may be very important due to the way they fly or fight.

That's certainly true - and I very rarely actually fly the stock Condor, because I don't like the way it handles compared to even the stock Imp.

On the other hand, by the time a player has enough CQC experience to meld their flight style with the ships and weapons available, they should also have the majority of important unlocks. (Pulse laser for the Imp Fighter, to bring its DPS in line with the stock Condor, is the only important unlock that's really high-level)

For most players giving them all the options at the start would just lead to them picking something sub-optimal or hard to fly ... obviously for experienced main-game PvPers coming to CQC later that's not the case, but that's also an exception.