Advanced Docking Computer working as intended...

[Para Handy]

....................

I think it is worth pointing out that a lot of automation that we would expect to be perfect in the future actually isn't so in the game. I fully accept that and excuse it by personally assuming that there is some sort of prohibition on advanced AI (similar to the Butlerian Jihad in the Dune universe). Thus we have fallible limpets, imperfect docking computers and a robotic bartender that moves its space station many Kylies out of boredom....

Make of it what you will but perhaps you just need to take a chill-pill before giving yourself an aneurysm over a docking computer in a game.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

I think it is worth pointing out that a lot of automation that we would expect to be perfect in the future actually isn't so in the game.

Your point being? Why would better pathing for limpets and docking computers be a bad thing?

I fully accept that and excuse it by personally assuming that there is some sort of prohibition on advanced AI (similar to the Butlerian Jihad in the Dune universe).

Good for you. What do you want, a cookie? A badge of honor?

Make of it what you will but perhaps you just need to take a chill-pill before giving yourself an aneurysm over a docking computer in a game.

Pithy ad-hominem doesn't somehow make your opinion more valid, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[Just Paul]

If real-time path-finding would be as easy as some suggest we would all be "driving" fully autonomous cars by now. And these companies throw billions at the problem.
The path finding in ED is not that bad all things considered. The limpets got a boost with one of the core mining updates and mine only fail if the chunk is stuck inside or if the roid has an irregular shape and fast rotation.
The ADC does what is says on the package, it mainly automates landings and launches, but you need to watch it. I think in one of the live streams then the ADC was introduced it was said that it was not un-failable (*citation needed).
The only time I used the ADC was at a high-g planetary port with my trading Cutter. It never crashed the ship and the over-boosting could be minimized by a slower approach speed.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

If real-time path-finding would be as easy as some suggest we would all be "driving" fully autonomous cars by now.

Who suggested it was easy? Whether something CAN be done is a related-but-still-separate issue from whether it SHOULD be done.

If FD can't improve the (A)DC pathfinding further they should say so.

I think in one of the live streams then the ADC was introduced it was said that it was not un-failable (*citation needed).

If so, that's a problem and it should be clearly indicated as an in-game warning. The ADC is installed by default on newly purchased ships, and potentially subjecting newbies to such a cheap and unexpected "gotcha" moment cannot be good for the game.

The DC and ADC have always worked flawlessly for me, so without having encountered this thread I would have had no forewarning of potential issues. I've already gotten used to using auto-docks as an opportunity to fetch drinks/snacks, use the toilet, or check up on external references like Inara.cz or eddb.io. The in-game tips even reinforce the ADC as a reliable tool without mention of failure.

If the ADC is flawed by design or necessity so be it, but at least distribute that information fairly to avoid players getting rightly annoyed when a feature doesn't work as initially expected.

 

[Fenwe]

I've been using the ADC since I started playing the game. It's a huge convenience. It works 99% of the time. That 1% just keeps you on your toes

I do replace the ADC on my mining Cutter though. I put a DSS in it's place.

 

[Lestat]

This is an argument for removing any kind of automated assist whatsoever, not against improving the officially sanctioned ones already in-game. A better approach would probably be working to detect and ban botters; I find it hard to believe that they are currently a huge problem or risk... Though if you have any statistics I'd be happy to see them.

I Am fine with some automative as long there a risk of it not working 100%. This will help prevent people like you who think they can just walk away while the game plays itself.

As I said, it's true that there are workarounds, but this point is completely tangential to suggestions for improvements. The manual override for auto-dock could also use some improvement; it currently requires you to apply throttle for any sort of twitch-based control. That's kind of a problem if you want to take control of a large, inertia-laden ship specifically to prevent a crash. Vertical/lateral thrusters should also override the sequence.

There No improvements needed as long as you pay attention. It when players like you who complain because you don't pay attention.

I remain unconvinced. The computer itself is already a BOT. That's kind of the point. If you write and use a 3rd party program to play the game for you, you should be banned. I mean seriously, THINK about it.

OH NO, the player can treat an official automated tool as an automated tool. THE HORROR.

See this is where you need to start researching players facts instead of ignoring them. I seeing how Bots work and I seen it work on Elite Dangerous and How they get their info and so on. It is relatively easy to program bots. If AutoPilot work 100% it gives an I win feature to players who use them to exploit the game.

If the issue is truly inability to develop reliable pathfinding, then they should say so. They can give a lore-based handwavium explanation for why autopilots are limited, add a short warning to the computer's in-game description, and call it done.

The issue of mechanical justifications specifically applies to other posters in this thread trying to dismiss the suggestion with advice rather than discussing its merits.

If possible, an automated docking computer should perform consistently well. Unless it's truly impossible, that should be a no-brainer.

Or it player inability to watch what there are ship doing and have this Fairtail belief Docking computers should have a 100% guarantee they will not lose their ships. This is Elite Dangerous There should always be risks even with docking Computers.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

1 - More cargo space for painite
2 - Whats the point of having an auto-docking computer if you have to babysit your ship as your computer docks it? I might as well get rid of the module and land the ship myself, the whole point of an advanced docking computer is so you don't have to do it yourself

MOAR cargo.

Don't cry when some explodes you. XD

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

I Am fine with some automative as long there a risk of it not working 100%.

Which is dumb; if automation is dangerous to legitimate play it should be removed. Elsewise your argument makes no sense.

See this is where you need to start researching players facts instead of ignoring them.

See, this is where you need to learn what burden of proof is. You made the claim; back it up or I'll call your smoke and mirrors what it is.

If AutoPilot work 100% it gives an I win feature to players who use them to exploit the game.

Or you could do the sensible thing and ban players for illegitimate behavior, rather than deny legitimate players a tool just to spite botters.

Or it player inability to watch what there are ship doing and have this Fairtail belief Docking computers should have a 100% guarantee they will not lose their ships. This is Elite Dangerous There should always be risks even with docking Computers.

The ADC is automatically included with new ships, and there is ZERO indication in-game that the computer has any sort of failure potential. The loading tips even directly suggest otherwise.

That's called bad design.

 

[Fenwe]

The ADC is automatically included with new ships, and there is ZERO indication in-game that the computer has any sort of failure potential. The loading tips even directly suggest otherwise.

That's called bad design.

Which is why it should be fixed.

It's the same issue with the super cruise assist, which I don't use because it can and will fly you into a planet if you aren't paying attention.

 

[Just Paul]

In-game description:
"Allows assisted docking and launch sequences at all starports and outposts."

Note the word assisted. It doesn't say automated.
And just looking at the npc docking and launching behavior should be enough to deduct that the adc is not a set and walk away thing.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

Note the word assisted. It doesn't say automated.

Which is an argument in semantics and entirely incongruous with how the module actually BEHAVES in-game. In the vast majority of cases it is fully automated without issue.

If automated behavior is intended, it could use some improvement to reduce fringe cases of collisions.

If automated behavior is not intended, the ADC functionality should actually be reduced, explicit warnings should be added, and override behavior should be more flexible (as I mentioned previously with regards to vert/lat thrusters when avoiding collisions). For example, there is no good reason for an "assist" to trigger an afterburner boost.

You guys are really pushing hard to make this argument about how the game should be played, when the issue raised in the OP is whether an official feature needs improvement. I don't really care if the ADC ultimately stays automated or becomes more of a proper "assist," but you should at least avoid raising bad-faith talking points as shallow, indirect flexes.

 

[Just Paul]

I don't care either as I don't use it. I have better use for that slot.
It was very helpful for reducing the turn-around time at the high-g planetary port, but that was it.
The point was that nowhere FDev stated that the ADS was foolproof or you could walk away and let the ship dock itself safely all the time.
I remember to the run-up of the introduction of it there was always the disclaimer that it could fail and you needed to be prepared to take over.

I do agree with more ways to override it. Maybe there should be a message in big red letters in the middle of the HUD once the ADS is
"Leaving the ADC unattended could result in ship loss and death"

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

The point was that nowhere FDev stated that the ADS was foolproof or you could walk away and let the ship dock itself safely all the time.

Which would be a fair point... IF the game didn't literally teach players the opposite. I didn't start out assuming it was safe to walk away, I LEARNED that it was through observing a fully-automated process having an apparent 0% failure rate with no indication otherwise.

This is especially bad because the ADC works very reliably with the smaller ships players start out in, and by the time they obtain the bigger ships where things start getting dicey their habits will likely already be established.

If FDev really wants players to be paying full attention regardless, they should design the system to require consistent player control inputs throughout.

(By the way, the in-game NPC station chatter says "use of automated docking procedures approved" or something close. It even occasionally says "you may now hand over the controls.")

I do agree with more ways to override it. Maybe there should be a message in big red letters in the middle of the HUD once the ADS is
"Leaving the ADC unattended could result in ship loss and death"

And this would be fair. That is, however, assuming FDev is fully against docking computers working as an autopilot... In which case there are tons of other design changes they should also make.

 

[Atol]

Question DiabolusUrsus The way you are acting right now is telling me is you don't know how to dock a large ships and you want a fool proof way to dock.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

Question DiabolusUrsus The way you are acting right now is telling me is you don't know how to dock a large ships and you want a fool proof way to dock.

Which runs exactly counter to me not caring if the ADC is ultimately a proper "assist" or full "autopilot," as I said previously.

Either or works for me, but I want a GOOD design that doesn't actively deceive players into avoidable mistakes.

So I'd caution you to develop better reading comprehension before trying to implicitly insult me.

 

[Winterwalker]

Asteroid bases maybe purty but they're full of navigation hazards. As many industrial stations have minor ones not a bad idea to have disable auto dock pre-selected in right panel or at least know how to turn it off in a hurry, in places where throttle's no good to you. Industrial accident. Cheers for the heads' up. ps. How boring would it be if everything worked perfect all the time.

 

[Atol]

Which runs exactly counter to me not caring if the ADC is ultimately a proper "assist" or full "autopilot," as I said previously.

Either or works for me, but I want a GOOD design that doesn't actively deceive players into avoidable mistakes.

So I'd caution you to develop better reading comprehension before trying to implicitly insult me.

Let add this up. You are so gunho on the docking computer should work 100%. When everyone put valid reason why it should not work 100% and you dismiss them. So to me there more to meets the eye here.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

Let add this up.

Ok, sure.

You are so gunho on the docking computer should work 100%.

False. If it is intended as a docking autopilot, it should work 100%. If it is intended as an assist only, it should be changed to behave less like an autopilot.

When everyone put valid reason why it should not work 100% and you dismiss them.

False, no valid reasons have been given why a docking autopilot should sometimes fail.

So to me there more to meets the eye here.

True, just not what you'd think: you need to work on your reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

 

[Lestat]

LOL. Maybe what people should do is watch videos of self driving car parking Fails.

As you can see Nothing will ever be 100%.

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

As you can see Nothing will ever be 100%.

And yet the ultimate goal of R&D is to get designs as close to 100% reliable as possible, meaning the devs should also strive to make the ADC better than it currently is.

If we're going with an argument from realism, anyway.