after stream discussion

[Fray]

Huh, this thread was not what I was expecting...

I've only watched ObsidianAnt's summary, as unless it's archived Joseph Anderson I hate heartily dislike streaming. And I think my reaction's similar to many others so far, as always with updates; I subjectively liked some of it, wasn't sure about other things, and it all comes to 'we'll see' when it all goes live.

I'm really not clear on exactly how the whole communal index for system data will work, though. The way Ant described it is that the sold data will automatically become available to all players. If so, I don't like it. The current routine of pinging the ADS then cherry picking bodies will be replaced by either dropping into the system and seeing everything's been 'filled in' already, or perhaps having a bunch of space junk - aka icy worlds and pointless satellites... - left over. Point being, if that's how it works then most people will spend their time traveling, not exploring.

If the ping/directional-analysis loop only fully triggers when it's a fresh discovery, then most players will have to travel a very long way to hit virgin territory.

I gather the initial ping will pay the same as it does now. But if you ping a system, then do detailed searches and scans, will you get paid for that, too? If someone's already generated that data and it's available to all, then... what's left to do, and why would someone get paid for re-scanning the same body to hand in data that's already been filled in?

Maybe I'm dumb, or maybe Ant described it poorly or misunderstood it. Or maybe the redesign's going to be a bit rubbish. No idea at the moment.

Aside from that possible [potentially considerable?] negative, I kinda liked what's been teased so far. Not overly keen on some of the panel UI redesigns. It all looks a bit too--- simple and basic to me. Perhaps that's only fair and logical, though; simple game (I'd love more complexity and a greater challenge to actually operating your ship), simple UI.

The orrery map's incredibly welcome, but it's hard to praise FDev when it really should've been in the game from the beginning, or at least in one of the earliest updates (pre-Horizons, certainly). It's been a fundamental failure of quality-of-life design for years.

I need more info on how the codex and regional mapping data of the galaxy work. I really hope segments aren't going to include 'Alien Sites: 2 out of 6 discovered', as that's turning what's supposed to be exploration of the unknown into a Ubisoft collectathon. The codex info itself could be great, especially for RP's. Given they seem to be voiced entries, it further reminds me of Mass Effect 1's Codex, which was such a great feature at the time.

So yeah, I guess for what's been shown so far, it's mostly very positive? Frankly, significant tweaks to what's there will at least freshen the experience for a while, regardless of whether I personally like or dislike something. It's hard to call the current exploration system any sort of design or feature whatsoever - a significant (many would fairly argue primary) pillar of the entire game has just been abandoned/neglected prior to the new update. It'll be novel to actually be able to like and dislike exploration mechanics for the first time...

OK bottom line. Here it is. They are adding technical gameplay complexity in leu of game content and we are sick of it. This looks cool for the first 30 hours, post that. Your done. Its a spin off compromise of last years talk about what was to come and there is continued non transparency of game direction we are done. That's the consensus of the majority of everyone ive talked to thus far. SO feel free to mentally note this post and we can talk about it in 2 months time because that's about how long its going to take for the participation drop to be felt. I stand behind what I say. What I "personally" would like to see is a restoration of the basic user controls over the ship power systems of the early game, and a fulfilment of the original roadmap points as prescribed in the original kickstarter plan and subsequent early interviews. As far as what I would "do". At this point I don't know. One thing I would do is allow greater player influence into the game world via introduced fixed resources-assets. Allow individual and group asset creation and implementation, and revamp the powerplay bubble to tie to exploration and power/resource expansion. I would also in tandem do the same with the thargoids. Now what that means is an open universe, we expand and play as much as possible based on our resource and asset ability, and there is an A.I. opposition in various sectors operating under the same frame. Also, I would integrate this so all roles become valid and can contribute in some way. And forget community goals that's just....no... We need something much more integrated into Elite. Its just too damn disconnected and repetitive. Bottom line is at this point. Im not sure what the right answer is. But this feels wrong. There are positive elements and I do like some things. But Its just more of a step in that mechanical on the rails direction and that just isn't what is needed. I just isn't.

...apropos constructive criticism; could you mash the return key every now and then? A solid, single block of text doesn't encourage people to read it.

And, as someone else just remarked, could you stop doing this, please?

They are adding technical gameplay complexity in leu of game content and we are sick of it...

You don't speak for me or anyone else, just yourself, as we all do when posting.

 

[Rebel RDX]

VonnDeckard have you seen this? I think this might give you some new hope! Appologies if you've seen it already.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/elite-dangerous/elite-dangerous-scenario-missions

 

[BulletTrev]

Thanks Rebel , good read that was. Lookin' good says I ( not we ).

 

[verminstar]

Im still fairly non hyped even with the changes to exploration, but then I didnt give up on this game because of a lack of content and thats still not the reason why Im pretty much apathetic towards the content being added. Its the bugs that got me most especially the planetary SRV bug that caused multiple crashing and restarting the console...which means they were gamebreaking to me. As such, any new content regardless of what it is, is pretty much pointless if I cant actually play the game in the first place.

As ever, I await the final patch notes before so much as thinking about playing again...or even reinstalling the game as Ive since upgraded to a oneX in the time Ive been away and Im not in the habit of installing games I no longer play.

Livestreams have bored me since the days of cherrypicked questions and vague beyond ridiculous answers, so Im just browsing through the TLDRs with a mix of mild curiosity and not much more. It looks good to give them their dues but...I just cant get over those aforementioned bugs. The moment I start liking something, my memory gets pulled back to the crashes...3 times in a single half hour being what my experience was the last time I played...thats simply unplayable to me.

And as nobody seems to wanna discuss them, that means that I still just treading water until the patchnotes tell me what I want to know...or not as the case may be.

Another little point being that Ive already been an explorer...Ive been right to the edge where the stars thin out, lived in the core fer 5 months and made elite on two accounts back in the days before the payouts were increased. Theres nothing out there just variations of the same templates. When I see some examples of new stuff added, then theres something to think about. In the meantime...bugs stop me being remotely optimistic and thats the way its gonna stay until they are fixed ^

 

[ApexWanderer]

Interesting posts but I think I'll reserve judgment until the q4 update,I've been playing too long to get excited .

 

[BulletTrev]

I've just watched Obsidian's TLDW YT vid on last nites live stream (as is my want) and am happy for all Explorer's out there ( pun intended ).
Personally think that the new Ornery map system map tab will be much used and appreciated by me and loads of others.
Also like the extra blobs of colour being added to our ships UI ( wonders why we cant pick our own colour scheme, surely it wouldn't be 'that' hard to implement, having said that wadoo I know , I ain't no fliipin' coder).

 

[Meadows65]

Was I mistaken or was there an off the cuff remark early in the live stream where some of the lighting changes would “only be available on high spec machines” and therefore NOT consoles? Hope I’ve misunderstood!

 

[fishgotnosole]

Clearly, I can only post for my own part. No potentially bombastic "we" claims made here. Not even tangentially. *wiggles eyebrows*

& That part is: I'm firmly in the "wait and see camp." Have discussed it with some other CMDR's that I regularly fly with, (and frequently get crashed into by) I'm shortly about to fire up youtube on the TV and check out some vids.

At the end of the day when all is said and done. The change is coming whether you may happen to like it or not. Either use it, or don't.

IMHO, there's too much negativity in this thread. Therefore I'm posting this short clip of a kitten riding a tortoise to redress the balance.

Thank you [up]

 

[Latent Buzzard]

Was I mistaken or was there an off the cuff remark early in the live stream where some of the lighting changes would “only be available on high spec machines” and therefore NOT consoles? Hope I’ve misunderstood!

That's been noticed by others as well

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/451510-No-graphical-improvements-for-consoles

 

[Rebel RDX]

Was I mistaken or was there an off the cuff remark early in the live stream where some of the lighting changes would “only be available on high spec machines” and therefore NOT consoles? Hope I’ve misunderstood!

I think they said some of the lighting effects are really designed for the high end systems, but the base effect of those, er, effects will still be somewhat noticeable on lower systems and consoles.

I think we will be able to enjoy all the adaptive lighting, and maybe some of the volumetric / fog effects etc.

Thanks Rebel , good read that was. Lookin' good says I ( not we ).

You're welcome bud

 

[Lordxenu]

OK bottom line. Here it is. They are adding technical gameplay complexity in leu of game content and we are sick of it. This looks cool for the first 30 hours, post that. Your done. Its a spin off compromise of last years talk about what was to come and there is continued non transparency of game direction we are done. That's the consensus of the majority of everyone ive talked to thus far. SO feel free to mentally note this post and we can talk about it in 2 months time because that's about how long its going to take for the participation drop to be felt. I stand behind what I say. What I "personally" would like to see is a restoration of the basic user controls over the ship power systems of the early game, and a fulfilment of the original roadmap points as prescribed in the original kickstarter plan and subsequent early interviews. As far as what I would "do". At this point I don't know. One thing I would do is allow greater player influence into the game world via introduced fixed resources-assets. Allow individual and group asset creation and implementation, and revamp the powerplay bubble to tie to exploration and power/resource expansion. I would also in tandem do the same with the thargoids. Now what that means is an open universe, we expand and play as much as possible based on our resource and asset ability, and there is an A.I. opposition in various sectors operating under the same frame. Also, I would integrate this so all roles become valid and can contribute in some way. And forget community goals that's just....no... We need something much more integrated into Elite. Its just too damn disconnected and repetitive. Bottom line is at this point. Im not sure what the right answer is. But this feels wrong. There are positive elements and I do like some things. But Its just more of a step in that mechanical on the rails direction and that just isn't what is needed. I just isn't.

Is this a joke? 30 hours for some is a full length game!!! And you're talking about a part of a part of a bigger game. Which costs £40 what are you on about?!?!?!?

 

[Dragun2]

Elite is a hard to appreciate game for most. Constant comparisons to other space sims games and the slow pace of updates makes alot of people lose sight of the leviathan amount of content available, albeit a bit bland in areas. I don't mind the slow pace and lack of big gameplay updates either since I know Elite is in for the long haul, not some 1-2 year burnout allmost all games shoot for nowadays. This updated is a welcome surprise to me as all of the previous ones lately have been small little bolt ons, this one has 2 major gameplay overhauls, new tools and new ships. I haven't been this exited for an Elite update in awhile and thats refreshing.

 

[Torrigwynt174]

Was I mistaken or was there an off the cuff remark early in the live stream where some of the lighting changes would “only be available on high spec machines” and therefore NOT consoles? Hope I’ve misunderstood!

I heard that as well, I believe it was to do with the fog effects in rings. By the look of it I'm not surprised it'll be high rigs that will benefit .

Ho hum.

For the other items detailed in the stream, I'm looking forward to learning more about them and how to use them in game.

Personally I don't subscribe to attacking people instead of the areas of the game that's causing the grief. If I was to criticize, I would like to think I would add comments on how it could be improved.

If I didn't like or enjoy the direction a particular game was taking, the ultimate protest is the act that Mr verminstar took and uninstall the game and occasionally research if anything had improved over time.

I do think that the game has improved immensely since it's release on GPP; anyone remember the massive stability issues at the start before horizons where the game would buzz crash frequently and switching orbit lines off would help? Loading times for galmap over 60 seconds? Etc etc.

 

[tafkabb]

I think despite three years of people calling it, with these swathes of interesting and original ideas incorporated into all of these free updates, Frontier are ignoring large portions of the community and are deliberately delaying Elite's doom yet again.
With no regard for the death of Elite, they are simply prolonging it for several more years. When will they learn

 

[Loki TDD]

I think despite three years of people calling it, with these swathes of interesting and original ideas incorporated into all of these free updates, Frontier are ignoring large portions of the community and are deliberately delaying Elite's doom yet again.
With no regard for the death of Elite, they are simply prolonging it for several more years. When will they learn

 

[Braandlin]

I don't know what you guys are on about. This is a disaster. Its a dumpster fire in the making. The majority of the these "changes" are revolving around things that were NEVER issues, nor were they requested. Night Vision is a colour inversion gimmick that will be used once... or twice maybe. The rest of it is a horrifying mash up of arcade level mess. Yes I agree mining was long overdue and it was a huge contention point and need revamping. But the areas that have been altered overall will harm this game and is really taking away from it particularly for seasoned long term players. Not a SINGLE core issue has been addressed or even acknowledged. Guys this is a dead game in the making. This update will fall flat, and let me tell you, speaking from experience...once you've been on the receiving end of these new gameplay exploration mechanics after ohh… say 30 hours or so... you wont be so dismissive of my points. FDev are idiots, and this update is the make or break for ALOT of players in game I know. This forum is a microcosm of overly vocal players, many of whom don't know up from down, and I wont get into the gatekeepers, that's not what the point of this reply. But mark my words this is the WRONG direction and its just more decline. I think that Elite players should proactively push back against this stupidity and stop letting a overly vocal minority of morons drag this game further into the depths of **** that it is sinking. Save for mining, which I applaud, this is furthering the end of this game by erosion of its greater player base.


The tiny screechy minority that is this forum will NOT be able to support this game as the greater community is drying up. YOUR killing your own game. STOP DOING THIS! I for one enjoy the game and have been here since the beginning, and find this tragic. This game is losing players by the hundreds every month! And its upstarts are less than half its losses. It started mid last year, I mentioned it then. Its worse now than ever. This forum isn't even the same, its degraded as well. And NO moderator can fight me on that because I remember when some of you were learning the game!!! and now your mods. You CANT tell me you haven't seen the change. If you deny it, your liars. Or your in denial. This update is NOT enough for the time and investment the community has made. Its an insult to the time and commitment that has been put in by the Elite Dangerous community, and Frontier Developments should be transparent about the realities of the coding engine and what is possible in relation to the vision that was originally given to up by David at Kickstarter, because this sure as hell isn't it... And I can assure you come 2019, there wont be anymore of this "kicking the development can down the road bit". Because there wont be anyone left to develop it for, save you lot of diehards on this forum, and newsflash...that isn't enough.

Are you feeling better now you have thrown your toys out of the pram like a squealing toddler?

I suggest if you want to have an actual discussion that you try a less beligerant petulent attitude.

Anyway have a nice day xx

 

[Braandlin]

Elite is a hard to appreciate game for most. Constant comparisons to other space sims games and the slow pace of updates makes alot of people lose sight of the leviathan amount of content available, albeit a bit bland in areas. I don't mind the slow pace and lack of big gameplay updates either since I know Elite is in for the long haul, not some 1-2 year burnout allmost all games shoot for nowadays. This updated is a welcome surprise to me as all of the previous ones lately have been small little bolt ons, this one has 2 major gameplay overhauls, new tools and new ships. I haven't been this exited for an Elite update in awhile and thats refreshing.

Agreed. There is a wide tranch of people who come to Elite with an expectation they have bought a shoot 'em up MMO in space and are disappointed. Especially when they want to be 'fed' a 'campaign mode' with prewritten scenarios. Or they expect a linear ladder of progression tso they have goals given to them. Personally i dislike that kind of gameplay.
The reality is that Elite is simply not that kind of game.
If you think of Elite as being a space simulation game - then it is in many ways absolutely staggering in its breadth. Not just the size of the galaxy, but the BGS (which is widely misunderstood) offer a dynamic environment. Sure there are clunky bits and there will be some developments and then rewrites, but in many ways they are doing things that are new, or at least in a different way.

 

[Thepirateorc]

Elite is a hard to appreciate game for most. Constant comparisons to other space sims games and the slow pace of updates makes alot of people lose sight of the leviathan amount of content available, albeit a bit bland in areas. I don't mind the slow pace and lack of big gameplay updates either since I know Elite is in for the long haul, not some 1-2 year burnout allmost all games shoot for nowadays. This updated is a welcome surprise to me as all of the previous ones lately have been small little bolt ons, this one has 2 major gameplay overhauls, new tools and new ships. I haven't been this exited for an Elite update in awhile and thats refreshing.

Same, very true

 

[Mole HD]

Was I mistaken or was there an off the cuff remark early in the live stream where some of the lighting changes would “only be available on high spec machines” and therefore NOT consoles? Hope I’ve misunderstood!

I noted it too and grimaced when they mentioned it imagining the avalanche of complaints from Xbox and PS4 players...

All in all, it's simply a given that in every single game available on PC, Xbox and PS4 that there's a varying degree of visual quality between what we can achieve on a high end, purpose built gaming rig and what the maximum settings on current gen consoles allow, the same goes for lower end or older PC's. The only difference is that the folks running older or lower end PC's accept those limitations as a fact and not a point of contention.

FDev are very good...but they aren't magicians at the end of the day and there are limits between the game running acceptably at 60 fps or limping along at 10 because they added some nice but truly unnecessary additional volumetric fog effects in asteroid rings. Like it or not, there are hardware limits. The Xbox and lower end PC's will still have the volumetric effects but just in slightly less detail than the few % of us with monster gaming rigs and £800 graphics cards.

I was honestly surprised when E-D came out on the Xbox back when it first released on GPP...I had been following it on YouTube since the first kick starter, wishing I had a gaming PC to play it. Like quite a few of us back then who jumped into GPP...I was even more surprised when it was absolutely gorgeous on the Xbox and played like a dream.

Besides the long standing bugs...it still does [yesnod]

 

[Mr Cynical]

That's been noticed by others as well

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/451510-No-graphical-improvements-for-consoles

The thing that bothers me a fair bit too, is if they are cutting off features for the lower end consoles (i can't believe the X couldn't do some or all of the spangly new effects), what are they going to expect the next paid content for consoles to be?

If they can't give them all the effects in game now, what are they going to expect console players to pay for?

If they are preparing Ed to be running for ps5/x2 already as their lead console platforms, then it's a slight concern (not that I won't be upgrading but not everyone can afford to).

Gary and Lloyd, please give some proper clarification on what exactly is coming specifically for each of the four consoles.