Allow buying and selling Mats


Heck no.

There is no sane price that could be given to materials that doesn't:
  • make actual material collection absolutely redundant; or
  • make any economic sense unless you farm the usual broken credit faucets
To provide more context, a G5 material is currently worth 400k. Credits are way too easy to obtain for that to be a meaningful value, and scaling that up to a higher value just places even more emphasis on broken credit grinds.
The in-game economy already doesn't make any economic sense. Why would you hold material pricing (and only material pricing) to that standard? I'm curious as to how you came up with 400k / G5 mat (genuinely curious, time spent gathering vs. same amount of time Credit Farming?). As a trial, I'd run G5 mats assuming roughly 500,000 CR/Hour vs. the time requirement for traditional methods of acquiring G5 material.
Just because the economy is already busted is no reason to just make it even worse.

EDIT: As a corollary though, the economy isn't completely busted, there's just one or two of activities from each major profession which make stupidly large amounts of credits.

There are actually many activities which don't pay well, and are excellent sources of materials. People who complain about materials being hard to get do so in part because they simply don't do these activities, because they aren't great credit spinners.

But while being good credit spinners, do they earn sufficient materials to match a the credits earned by those outlier activities? No, and this is where I say it gets ridiculous. The sheer volume of materials required to balance out against the 200-300m/h+ activities the game has is huge... we're talking up to 600 G5 materials an hour. nobody needs that many materials for starters, and to consider any activity being able to fetch that many materials is utterly insane. This is what I mean by there being no price that makes any sense; it either lands us in the situation where a single activity gives us either stupidly large amounts of materials, or we set them at some incredibly dumb price of 50m+
 
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Well, I see where you’re coming from. Elite is a long game though. It takes a long time. I see people on here who have been playing for years, still learning stuff. For me, the longevity of it, is one of it’s assets. It’s the immediate need to have the best weapons/shields thing that forces a grind. I went through acquiring the items as I went, playing at a level that was appropriate for my in game equipment. That means, if my ship wasn’t good enough to hold it with the big boys, tough, do something else until it is. Not speed everything up so you go from Sidey to Gankatron 2000 in a few hours.
How long should it take to go from Sidey to Gankatron 2k? How much of a power gap should exist between the two? I am one of those people who've been playing for years. Elite would be "a long game" for me even if they eliminated the grind/progression entirely. But I think the game would be better if the gap wasn't as large or if I could loan a ship to a squad-mate.
 



Just because the economy is already busted is no reason to just make it even worse.
The game literally inverts the effects of supply and demand. This would be mild CR inflation at best, and certainly no more disruptive than the existing mining paradigm.
 
Just because the economy is already busted is no reason to just make it even worse.

EDIT: As a corollary though, the economy isn't completely busted, there's just one or two of activities from each major profession which make stupidly large amounts of credits.

There are actually many activities which don't pay well, and are excellent sources of materials. People who complain about materials being hard to get do so in part because they simply don't do these activities, because they aren't great credit spinners.

But while being good credit spinners, do they earn sufficient materials to match a the credits earned by those outlier activities? No, and this is where I say it gets ridiculous. The sheer volume of materials required to balance out against the 200-300m/h+ activities the game has is huge... we're talking up to 600 G5 materials an hour. nobody needs that many materials for starters, and to consider any activity being able to fetch that many materials is utterly insane. This is what I mean by there being no price that makes any sense; it either lands us in the situation where a single activity gives us either stupidly large amounts of materials, or we set them at some incredibly dumb price of 50m+
That's a much more interesting post than the one I originally quoted :)

Lemee get this out of the way: The economy is completely busted. I'm happy to agree to disagree here though as it doesn't really bear on the rest of your post...

If you were to price G5 materials at the 200m+ Cr/Hr rate, why would this be a problem? Its been a while since I did any dedicated G5 materials farming, but... Using G4 raw materials as a baseline (hello Bug Killer), that's what 3 sites for 9 materials requiring maybe 5 minutes a circuit (log in, harvest materials, log out)?

60 min / 5 min per circuit = 12 circuits
9 materials per circuit * 12 circuits = 108 Raw Materials per hour
200m+ Cr/Hr / 108 Materials/Hr = roughly 2m Cr per G4 raw material.

If you think 5 min is too long, half the time gives 4m Cr per G4 raw material. That isn't obviously game-breaking to me.
 
How long should it take to go from Sidey to Gankatron 2k? How much of a power gap should exist between the two? I am one of those people who've been playing for years. Elite would be "a long game" for me even if they eliminated the grind/progression entirely. But I think the game would be better if the gap wasn't as large or if I could loan a ship to a squad-mate.

Ok, long answer coming up that straight away, I'm, going to admit, does not answer the question, 'How long should it take?'.

Again, I completely understand where you are coming from, you want to fly in a squad with your mates and Daughter, she is new to the game, so her ability to acquire the tools that you have (basically the mats to do engineering) is quite a way off. Understood.

Buying mats doesn't work because at that point, you may as well only have 2 levels, engineered module and un-engineered module that you buy of the shelf and can possible tweak the engineered one. Because if you can buy mats and money is easy to make in this game, then mats become nothing. Through various means I can take a player that joined today and by the end of the day, they could have 1bn credits. I cant give them money but I can give them cargo, they sell, they have money. So they could buy the vanilla Gankatron with some of the money, A-rate it, making it the Gankatron 200, then go and buy the required mats to engineer it to become the Gamkatron 2000. All that in one day because you can buy mats.

The Fleet Carrier brought a bunch of new people to the game (amazing, all welcome) but I was seeing posts on here of people who had been playing for a month, already had a Fleet Carrier but didn't know some really basic parts of the game. Really basic. They had possibly watched get rich quick videos on YT, did mining for hours, got their FC and now didn't understand anything else about the game. Having a slow progression through the game gives you a chance to learn about it.

Having established that people can already own a Fleet Carrier within a month, the idea that other areas of the game need to me sped up to close the gap look (to me) like an insane move. It nearly always boils down to combat. People want to be at Gankatron 2000 levels as fast as they can. You don't really have this in any other area of the game. People go exploring or trading in paltry little builds, edging their way to the next big purchase. The reality is though, just because you're in a partly A-rated Viper III, that doesn't exempt you from engaging in combat, you can find missions, go to nav beacons and find targets of your calibre to hone your skills. You don't learn to drive in an F1 car, you start in a Micra.

I've been playing this game for around 4 years. I can tell you, on reflection, the part I loved the most was the progression. I spent weeks trying to decide if I was going to get the Krait or the Python. (I went Python) I then spent a good long time A-rating it bit by bit, engineering as I went. All this time, learning more and more about the game. I would get to a point and have enough cash or mats to upgrade a module and I'd be sitting there for days going over the choices. I sorely miss those days. I can go and buy any ship today I want, max it up, and I wouldn't notice the financial loss any more than I would buying fuel for my Sidey at a station. I know this is a very me view, but yours is yours, mine is mine. Every improvement brought a sense of achievement. Felt risky. I think the value of that Python, that I still own today, is around 187,000,000 I could afford a dozen of today, at least and still have enough money left to never worry about in game money any more. As BB King said, The Thrill Is Gone.

The idea that I can lend people ships falls on its face because I lend you a ship, why on Earth are you going to bother to build your own? I would just give it to you. Another shortcut.

So whilst I understand that you have been playing for years, you want your Daughter to be at your level quickly to have fun with you, you could be robbing her of some good experiences and knowledge. Being told stuff is great, finding it out for yourself, is better. Have you thought maybe, instead of wanting her to rapidly rise to meet your levels, you go buy the same ship she has, progress with her?

It was a long, at times arduous answer to a very simple question that I didn't even answer.

TLDR

Enjoy the ride, because if you race to the top, you miss half the journey.
 
That's a much more interesting post than the one I originally quoted :)

Lemee get this out of the way: The economy is completely busted. I'm happy to agree to disagree here though as it doesn't really bear on the rest of your post...

If you were to price G5 materials at the 200m+ Cr/Hr rate, why would this be a problem? Its been a while since I did any dedicated G5 materials farming, but... Using G4 raw materials as a baseline (hello Bug Killer), that's what 3 sites for 9 materials requiring maybe 5 minutes a circuit (log in, harvest materials, log out)?

60 min / 5 min per circuit = 12 circuits
9 materials per circuit * 12 circuits = 108 Raw Materials per hour
200m+ Cr/Hr / 108 Materials/Hr = roughly 2m Cr per G4 raw material.

If you think 5 min is too long, half the time gives 4m Cr per G4 raw material. That isn't obviously game-breaking to me.
That would mean a typical assassination target would pay a 5m credit reward, maybe ~1m in bounty, and close to 20m[1] materials if not more. That's pretty dumb... the materials should be a bonus, not the core reward.

Throw on top that's more in materials than a rebuy on a baseline Anaconda, and hooray, with a few disposable alts in a wing you can earn..... I'd guess at least 1/2b - 1b an hour if you just lightweight, no- shields fit them? Just from ganking your own alts. That's insane.

[1] Calculated from a similar markup, given a conda will drop 0-1 G5 parts and 4-5 G4 parts. Your calculations before seemed to use scooped parts, rather than components, noting each scooped material yields 3 materials, so I've tried to maintain that.
 
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Ok, long answer coming up that straight away, I'm, going to admit, does not answer the question, 'How long should it take?'.

Again, I completely understand where you are coming from, you want to fly in a squad with your mates and Daughter, she is new to the game, so her ability to acquire the tools that you have (basically the mats to do engineering) is quite a way off. Understood.

Buying mats doesn't work because at that point, you may as well only have 2 levels, engineered module and un-engineered module that you buy of the shelf and can possible tweak the engineered one. Because if you can buy mats and money is easy to make in this game, then mats become nothing. Through various means I can take a player that joined today and by the end of the day, they could have 1bn credits. I cant give them money but I can give them cargo, they sell, they have money. So they could buy the vanilla Gankatron with some of the money, A-rate it, making it the Gankatron 200, then go and buy the required mats to engineer it to become the Gamkatron 2000. All that in one day because you can buy mats.

The Fleet Carrier brought a bunch of new people to the game (amazing, all welcome) but I was seeing posts on here of people who had been playing for a month, already had a Fleet Carrier but didn't know some really basic parts of the game. Really basic. They had possibly watched get rich quick videos on YT, did mining for hours, got their FC and now didn't understand anything else about the game. Having a slow progression through the game gives you a chance to learn about it.

Having established that people can already own a Fleet Carrier within a month, the idea that other areas of the game need to me sped up to close the gap look (to me) like an insane move. It nearly always boils down to combat. People want to be at Gankatron 2000 levels as fast as they can. You don't really have this in any other area of the game. People go exploring or trading in paltry little builds, edging their way to the next big purchase. The reality is though, just because you're in a partly A-rated Viper III, that doesn't exempt you from engaging in combat, you can find missions, go to nav beacons and find targets of your calibre to hone your skills. You don't learn to drive in an F1 car, you start in a Micra.

I've been playing this game for around 4 years. I can tell you, on reflection, the part I loved the most was the progression. I spent weeks trying to decide if I was going to get the Krait or the Python. (I went Python) I then spent a good long time A-rating it bit by bit, engineering as I went. All this time, learning more and more about the game. I would get to a point and have enough cash or mats to upgrade a module and I'd be sitting there for days going over the choices. I sorely miss those days. I can go and buy any ship today I want, max it up, and I wouldn't notice the financial loss any more than I would buying fuel for my Sidey at a station. I know this is a very me view, but yours is yours, mine is mine. Every improvement brought a sense of achievement. Felt risky. I think the value of that Python, that I still own today, is around 187,000,000 I could afford a dozen of today, at least and still have enough money left to never worry about in game money any more. As BB King said, The Thrill Is Gone.

The idea that I can lend people ships falls on its face because I lend you a ship, why on Earth are you going to bother to build your own? I would just give it to you. Another shortcut.

So whilst I understand that you have been playing for years, you want your Daughter to be at your level quickly to have fun with you, you could be robbing her of some good experiences and knowledge. Being told stuff is great, finding it out for yourself, is better. Have you thought maybe, instead of wanting her to rapidly rise to meet your levels, you go buy the same ship she has, progress with her?

It was a long, at times arduous answer to a very simple question that I didn't even answer.

TLDR

Enjoy the ride, because if you race to the top, you miss half the journey.
Nice post!

There's a lot of sentiment that I basically agree with. I think the journey vs. endpoint argument is way over used though. Making ice cream is fun. Eating ice cream is fun. They're fun for different reason, but if you don't find both things fun there's really no future for icecream. That being said, a game like elite prioritizes essentially grindy behavior and calls it progression. This is almost exactly opposite the kind of knowledge and experience I would want (for example) my daughter to pursue. I think someone would have to be insane to place equivalent value on (for example) the engineering grind vs. a similar time spent whacking Thargoids with one's daughter.

I run a lot of activities that are basically centered around "gearing up" people I play with. All of it is less grindy as part of a group activity. But it still took us about two weeks to go from Sidewinder to AX-viable Krait. I know many CMDRs look at that and say wow! two weeks isn't nearly enough time - that's practically giving away Imperial Cutters... Well, people say a lot of silly things. What I can say definitively is the AX-pilot was much more excited about her first Cyclopes kill and her improving anti-Thargon skills than she was about unlocking Guardian Tech. And Guardian Tech unlocks are far more engaging than Engineering.
 
That would mean a typical assassination target would pay a 5m credit reward, maybe ~1m in bounty, and close to 20m[1] materials if not more. That's pretty dumb... the materials should be a bonus, not the core reward.

Throw on top that's more in materials than a rebuy on a baseline Anaconda, and hooray, with a few disposable alts in a wing you can earn..... I'd guess at least 1/2b - 1b an hour if you just lightweight, no- shields fit them? Just from ganking your own alts. That's insane.

[1] Calculated from a similar markup, given a conda will drop 0-1 G5 parts and 4-5 G4 parts. Your calculations before seemed to use scooped parts, rather than components, noting each scooped material yields 3 materials, so I've tried to maintain that.
My vague recollections of BattleTech are that salvage was absolutely the primary money maker in mech-to-mech engagements. Not saying ED should be B-tech, but there are plenty of real-world historical examples as well as fiction tropes that argue in precisely the opposite direction: Salvage is the core reward, the bounty is just icing on the cake. With a little back-end work, the level of mats dropped could (should) be tied to the level of engineering on the ship. That'd have some nominally positive implications for PvP generally. So maybe not so dumb...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that ganking your own alts is not shall we say "expected" game-play. Perhaps a fine for Barratry or a counter insurance claim from rebuys unlimited might address this issue?
 
My vague recollections of BattleTech are that salvage was absolutely the primary money maker in mech-to-mech engagements. Not saying ED should be B-tech, but there are plenty of real-world historical examples as well as fiction tropes that argue in precisely the opposite direction: Salvage is the core reward, the bounty is just icing on the cake.
This isn't battle tech. This is elite. Mission rewards are calculated as:
Reward pool = credits + reward cargo value + reward material value + reward influence/rep.

Many missions which reward materials would need their overall credit value pumped up to match (which we're now in the ballcourt of needing to triple payouts for things like assassinations)... that or you nerf them so hard you might as well just remove them from the game.

So it's still the same problem; there's no sane value you can afford materials, because the credit economy is screwed. Too low, and you make collecting materials pointless, too high and you just make material gathering the next, bigger credit meta, and in between you get the worst of both of these.
 
This isn't battle tech. This is elite. Mission rewards are calculated as:
Reward pool = credits + reward cargo value + reward material value + reward influence/rep.

Many missions which reward materials would need their overall credit value pumped up to match (which we're now in the ballcourt of needing to triple payouts for things like assassinations)... that or you nerf them so hard you might as well just remove them from the game.

So it's still the same problem; there's no sane value you can afford materials, because the credit economy is screwed. Too low, and you make collecting materials pointless, too high and you just make material gathering the next, bigger credit meta, and in between you get the worst of both of these.
This isn’t an argument against the proposal.
 
I'm all for any suggestion that helps with the grind.

I'd rather have an option to trade modules between players directly, because I'm sure certain number of players have pretty unhealthy stockpile of these modules, which they wouldn't want to just throw away into the void, but would gladly sell or just give other players, and for now keep stockpiling them just-in-case, which is a big waste...

But suggestion to have mat traders as dealers between players is a good one.

As many have said, and many think that way, which is true, that G5'ing your main ship is quite fast and easy, if you know what you're doing. But main problem with engineering (aside that it completely destroys game balance and make ships blatantly overpowered), actually the main problem with grind, is that it punishes hard an incentive of player to experiment. Numbers in Coriolis don't tell you everything, you have to test things yourself in action to see how it works. But requirement for mats to try out different upgrades and experimentals is quite staggering.

When people saying "play the game", I find it baffling. You have an idea in mind for the build, it makes no sense to put it off 3 years ahead and hope you will have some bins full at that time. You can get stuff you need quick, but mat grinding takes a lot of skill and knowledge, like when you have to re-log 50 times in a row to get enough stuff to trade down and keep some for upgrades you want to experiment with. This is very exciting gameplay, no doubt about it.

Honestly, pricing it cheap wouldn't make much of a difference. Maybe most players will find direct mat farming useless and will start just buying stuff instead, so what? It's not like they'll lose on anything. Forcing less people re-logging means less people get disgusted eventually, and more people might stick with this game as a result.

You want slow mat accumulation as you play? Please, be my guest, it isn't going nowhere.
You want to get stuff quick? Well, crush your soul and re-log like crazy, you will get your bin full in few hours/days.
You want just buy stuff here and now and you have the credits? Why not? Do it!

I don't see how alternatives will harm anything here. If you have engineered everything you needed, all these mats are just gonna be dead weight in your inventory, without any use or purpose. Why not give it one?
 
This isn’t an argument against the proposal.
Yes it is.

Right now, the credit economy is botched. The material economy is not.

You want to buy and sell materials for credits? You need to fix the credit economy first, otherwise you break the material economy too. It's a pretty big problem.

To ignore the knock-ons of this is pretty short sighted. If you don't have a solution to problems like the impact on missions, you don't have a good suggesting, you just have more problems being introduced.

Paring the whole thing back to my original post; there is no sane price you can set on materials without breaking some part of the game.
 
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Yes it is.
Right now, the credit economy is botched. The material economy is not.
You want to buy and sell materials for credits? You need to fix the credit economy first, otherwise you break the material economy too. It's a pretty big problem.
To ignore the knock-ons of this is pretty short sighted. If you don't have a solution to problems like the impact on missions, you don't have a good suggesting, you just have more problems being introduced.
Paring the whole thing back to my original post; there is no sane price you can set on materials without breaking some part of the game.
Its an odd claim that the Material economy is not botched... There's no exchange, no trading, so no economy when it comes to materials. Gathering materials is no more "balanced" than the CR economy and the internal game-logic for materials acquisition is pretty weak too (need wake data? guess I better go find a famine system...). Plus hammer space. Your problem with "no sane price" is a reflection of a problem with the CR economy. That translates roughly to a blanket objection to anything having to do with Cr, or alternatively needing to fix the Cr economy before you fix anything that might relate to it. I get that position, but I don't agree with it. That's not the way you solve problems: its a way to avoid solving problems. Bottom line: if you balance Material Cr value to target the desired Cr/hour earning profile and the desired time spent material farming you don't make game any more broken than it already is. Of course that'd have knock-on effects but its not that complicated. You've already identified this issue with assassination missions. I think you're wrong about the aesthetic of the reward structure (bounty vs. salvage), but its doable. The only objection I've seen so far that I don't see a ready answer for is the "problem" that theoretically someone who amassed enough credits could effectively buy someone else a fully engineered ship, but since engineers are still gated that's pretty weak tea for an objection. One thing this would do is create another source of demand for credits, and I think we could all agree this game needs more ways to spend Cr.
 
Its an odd claim that the Material economy is not botched... There's no exchange, no trading, so no economy when it comes to materials. Gathering materials is no more "balanced" than the CR economy and the internal game-logic for materials acquisition is pretty weak too (need wake data? guess I better go find a famine system...). Plus hammer space. Your problem with "no sane price" is a reflection of a problem with the CR economy. That translates roughly to a blanket objection to anything having to do with Cr, or alternatively needing to fix the Cr economy before you fix anything that might relate to it. I get that position, but I don't agree with it. That's not the way you solve problems: its a way to avoid solving problems. Bottom line: if you balance Material Cr value to target the desired Cr/hour earning profile and the desired time spent material farming you don't make game any more broken than it already is. Of course that'd have knock-on effects but its not that complicated. You've already identified this issue with assassination missions. I think you're wrong about the aesthetic of the reward structure (bounty vs. salvage), but its doable. The only objection I've seen so far that I don't see a ready answer for is the "problem" that theoretically someone who amassed enough credits could effectively buy someone else a fully engineered ship, but since engineers are still gated that's pretty weak tea for an objection. One thing this would do is create another source of demand for credits, and I think we could all agree this game needs more ways to spend Cr.
Disagree entirely. All this would do is create a hot mess. Nobody would actually collect materials, because it's simply easier to grind credits, and all credits-for-materials would do is increase the emphasis on the broken credit spinners, and draw away from all the other activities the game offers.

It would wreck the game.
 
Disagree entirely. All this would do is create a hot mess. Nobody would actually collect materials, because it's simply easier to grind credits, and all credits-for-materials would do is increase the emphasis on the broken credit spinners, and draw away from all the other activities the game offers.

It would wreck the game.
Then I think we've hit the agree to disagree point. Nice chatting with you Jmanis. o7
 
Nice post!

There's a lot of sentiment that I basically agree with. I think the journey vs. endpoint argument is way over used though. Making ice cream is fun. Eating ice cream is fun. They're fun for different reason, but if you don't find both things fun there's really no future for icecream. That being said, a game like elite prioritizes essentially grindy behavior and calls it progression. This is almost exactly opposite the kind of knowledge and experience I would want (for example) my daughter to pursue. I think someone would have to be insane to place equivalent value on (for example) the engineering grind vs. a similar time spent whacking Thargoids with one's daughter.

I run a lot of activities that are basically centered around "gearing up" people I play with. All of it is less grindy as part of a group activity. But it still took us about two weeks to go from Sidewinder to AX-viable Krait. I know many CMDRs look at that and say wow! two weeks isn't nearly enough time - that's practically giving away Imperial Cutters... Well, people say a lot of silly things. What I can say definitively is the AX-pilot was much more excited about her first Cyclopes kill and her improving anti-Thargon skills than she was about unlocking Guardian Tech. And Guardian Tech unlocks are far more engaging than Engineering.

Thank you.

I want to answer this and add this bit in too:

When people saying "play the game", I find it baffling.

In my first post, I talked about a slow progression, I mentioned that this request around 'removing the grind' nearly always boils down to combat, and although I hadn't expected to hear that your Daughter was winging up to go kill Thargoids, I thought perhaps maybe massacre missions, it is still combat. Ok, hold that thought, quick diversion.

In a lot of RPG games, you do some basics, earn a skill point. These skill points enhance your abilities. You get a few of these under your belt, you're feeling good, a bit "I'm hard Bruce Lee" and you decide to venture into a new region and add to your body count. You discover an opponent that you cant beat and have no chance of beating until you unlock a certain point on the skill tree. So back you go, completing other tasks, possibly more mundane ones, unrelated to the one you have in mind, until you have that skill point unlocked, then you march off to claim your victory.

For me, enabling easier access to mats is handing you 30 skill points off the bat, in a game where YT get rich quick videos already handed you 30 other skill points. Maybe it isn't YT videos you have been watching, perhaps you have been apprenticing under the watchful eye of your Thargoid hating Father :)

The reason I included the remark about 'Playing the game', is, although some people come to this game with a very fixed idea of either what it is about or what they want to do in it, it is in fact not about one thing at all. It is certainly not centred around combat. It has plenty of chances to do combat, in a variety of ways but it is not solely a combat game.

So mixing up my games, we start in Elite, we have to work through a skill tree of sorts and I get it, you just want to go and kill that guy over there but you need to go do other stuf to earn the skill points. If all you can see is that opponent, then everything else looks like an obstruction. But if you take the time, explore what rewards are available from certain mission types, what trade loops can you find/create. You're playing the wider game.

The 3 basic components of the game, as indicated in the right hand panel are Combat, Trade and Exploration. If your focus is on combat, you're really only playing 1/3 of the game. In my game, I started with trade, I wanted to build up enough funds to get to the point where I could sweat over the decision between Krait and Python. I couldn't take the big 10-20m paying out missions, they were ranked high above me, so I mixed some trade with exploration. Exploring planets, finding geological sites, adding them to my Codex, oh, and look, if I shoot a few, I pick up some mats. I was playing the whole game. Even combat, because I couldn't take big Elite ranked trade missions and survive attacks, so I picked lesser ones that had less advanced enemies coming after me.

My meandering answer leads to this point, playing the game, this game, is about variety. If you only use one tool to build a house, it is going to feel like a long painful process. If you only add one more tool, you double the speed.
 
@Lorenzo Waringos
Um, I never said anything about daughters, pretty sure you got some post mixed up a bit, hah, but that's alright.

As for the rest of your reply. It's a little off the mark from my argument, but to emphasis some points:
  • I don't think ED can be viewed as an RPG, where you progress your character (ship). Since from the get go, you technically can do anything, if you have enough knowledge. It might be much harder without specific upgrades/engineereing, but it's still possible. Which means it doesn't have any artificial barriers, RPG games have, where power levelling is a thing. To be frank, system like that would be pretty awkward in Elite.
  • In regular RPG, when you progress, like doing quests, perform certain tasks, etc. to advance, level up and get more skills, all these are part of the gameplay. In Elite, re-logging isn't gameplay. It's virtually an exploit, put in the game by developers, because natural accumulation of material is absolutely insane in how long takes (years, no less) and is very unreliable. Re-logging, which is everyone have to do, who likes to experiment with builds a lot, and make some first trial and error, is mandatory. It's mindbogging and simply put - bad game design.
  • Engineering is extremely useful well outside of combat. It has incredible utility, which allows your ship to be much better at any role you choose. There lies the problem with it - it's just plain big enhancement, without any drawbacks. Of course it's much better to do 1 jump (seeing 1 loading screen), than making 5 jumps. It's huge time saving, both on distance, fuel, everything, which is very important, for ED in particular...
 
Disagree entirely. All this would do is create a hot mess. Nobody would actually collect materials, because it's simply easier to grind credits, and all credits-for-materials would do is increase the emphasis on the broken credit spinners, and draw away from all the other activities the game offers.

It would wreck the game.
I definitely disagree with that. Some players would harvest the mats to sell, others would buy said mats. Wouldn't that create an economy that is more dynamic? You can't buy what others have not harvested because there is no stock and less stock means higher prices for those selling. It's also pointless to harvest what others are not buying because you overstock the market and kill the prices.

In fact, it would create a whole new aspect to the game, those who want to make money harvesting the mats would check the market for the best prices and go find the mats with the best return, just like trading or mining. Those who want to buy the mats would have to scour the systems for the best places to buy the mats at a reasonable price. This would create an economy like mining, but with player controlled prices. We don't buy mined ores etc to use, only to trade and therefore, we don't really have much in the way of a player controlled economy for them. A player economy for stuff we actually use in game, similar to Tritium for Fleet Carriers, creates a demand that others can make money filling. It's a two way street.

This actually INCREASES the activities the game offers. Data collection and planetary mining would become job opportunities and PVPers would have more targets to attack, especially on the ground with Oddysey because there are more players roaming around on the planets, harvesting large volumes of materials for an income, instead of the odd one here and there harvesting only the mats they need for now. Also there are more floating around in Cruise etc, harvesting data from high wakes instead of only going from warp-in points to stations.

Look at the bigger picture.
 
All this things, while they seem a problem for you, aren't actually true. The landing sequence certainly doesn't take forever, it does take practice though and you can be on the surface of a small body in a minute or so. You should always mine at geo or shard sites, they are packed together there, and the SRV scanner isn't hard to interpret if you know how, but is irrelevant anyway for geo and shard sites.

Practice landing on planets, never hunt in the open for nodes, ignore the scanner at geo and shard sites.
Where do you get info on where to find geo shard sites? I don't want to spend hours on a planet trying to find one, only to find there isn't one on that planet.
 
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