Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

[Stigbob]

The difference is that those who like the ADS are content for the FSS to remain in the game, whereas ...

......the games moved on and its irrelevant ?.

 

[Riverside]

I think that applies to you, not me. I'm ambivalent towards the new stuff. I like the benefits of being able to scan at a distance & locate persistent POIs, but the implementation seems a bit rushed.

 

[Stigbob]

I think that applies to you, not me. I'm ambivalent towards the new stuff. I like the benefits of being able to scan at a distance & locate persistent POIs, but the implementation seems a bit rushed.

No u.

 

[Riverside]

The difference is that those who like the ADS are content for the FSS to remain in the game, whereas ...

Quite. This discussion is easily solved. It is between the middle ground and one extreme, not between two extremes.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's not a reason for removing or not adding the old stuff either.

Never said it was. It was most likely removed because it was crap. I think that's a fair reason.

 

[amigacooke]

People kept saying Exploration needed a some refinements. And when they give it to us, people still complain; because it's not what they wanted. FD just can't win. They do nothing and they're accused of apathy. They do something and people still complain. Sheesh.

Maybe, it's different people? Just a thought.

FDev ask for feedback. It appears you have quite a low estimate of their ability to discern useful feedback.

 

[Riverside]

Never said it was. It was most likely removed because it was crap. I think that's a fair reason.

It wasn't though, it's just a different way of looking at the same data. You are entitled to your opinion of course, personally I liked it. It was easy to use, easy to understand & didn't waste too much time. I guess we just play in different ways

Putting the old modules back in won't affect those that choose not to fit them.

 

[amigacooke]

......the games moved on and its irrelevant ?.

Irrelevant enough to keep posting repeatedly in a thread on the subject?

 

[amigacooke]

Never said it was. It was most likely removed because it was crap. I think that's a fair reason.

You'll have to remind me whether you spent four years saying it was rubbish, or whether you decided it was rubbish only when the FSS was released?

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

I'm sorry, but valuable bodies were easy to spot in the old system. With the FSS you have to rely on your knowledge of the signatures if you don't use the slider. Using the slider automatically makes it more effort.

With older system You had to rely on knowledge as well, such as sound signatures, holo display in cockpit or being able to spot whether the body was atmospheric HMC or ELW.
Personally, i don't think that moving the slider takes any effort.

There is no effort in flying to bodies.

See, there is no denying but neither, to me at least, is using the FSS. FSS' premise was to facilitate making discoveries and You and me will agree that it is (whether that's bad or not) more of a point-and-click type of tool. It does make scanning the whole system easier. However the matter here is not about making effort. It's about carrying out exploration the way You ilke it and forcing everyone to use the FSS and only FSS imposed a great time sink for those who seek different things in exploration than scanning everything or cherry picking.

You can find anything with the FSS. Some takes a bit longer but gives more information though.

Could You elaborate? I always thought that FSS reveals all the same information that scanning the old way does.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You'll have to remind me whether you spent four years saying it was rubbish, or whether you decided it was rubbish only when the FSS was released?

I never likes the mechanic from when I first started playing the game in beta/gamma. I thought it was rubbish then and I still think its rubbish now.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It wasn't though, it's just a different way of looking at the same data. You are entitled to your opinion of course, personally I liked it. It was easy to use, easy to understand & didn't waste too much time. I guess we just play in different ways

Putting the old modules back in won't affect those that choose not to fit them.

Whether it is crap or not is down to subjective feelings. If Fdev think its crap, then they won't want it in the game and will remove it.

 

[Stigbob]

Irrelevant enough to keep posting repeatedly in a thread on the subject?

Why wouldn't I post in the thread ?. It's not like it makes any difference to anything even remotely important its all just trivial video game natter.

 

[Riverside]

Whether it is crap or not is down to subjective feelings. If Fdev think its crap, then they won't want it in the game and will remove it.

If Fdev think a particular feature isn't up to a standard I can understand why they wouldn't add it in the first place. That's not the case here, it was added to the game (years ago). There was no need to remove it.

About the only non-contentious example that immediately comes to mind is the docking computer. When I bought the game (Jan 2015) it was a liability, and only in the game because of tradition (and traditionally it was always a liability). It wasn't removed, it was improved, and is now being added to with a new module that will dock and undock too. But the old 'dock only' module is not being removed.

A more contentious example would be legacy engineered modules. FDev went to great lengths to ensure no player lost out. That care was not taken with the exploration changes, but could easily have been simply by not removing the old modules. Experience with the 3.3 changes bears this out - there was no need for them to be removed.

 

[excalibus]

IMO the way to make exploration feel like you have actually achieved something significant is to add things that are significant to discover. Earthlike worlds are about as close as we get currently but we can't explore their surfaces so it only goes so far. Maybe some of the weird auto-generated systems can count, like moons stuck in a neutron star's jet, but they're not the same as discovering something truly worth it.

I've explored many, many systems and gotten quite a few first discoveries, and haven't found anything at all worth mentioning. All the systems are more or less the same.

From what I understand now there are POI's appearing on planets etc when you use the probes... But yes I agree, discovering new things on planets, new 'anomolies' in space, not USS or the like but perhaps hidden bases, comets, and that sort of thing, that otherwise would not show up that we can then interact with in meaningful (to us) ways would be a great step forward to not only giving more depth, but more purpose to exploration beyond the player made up purposes such as the distant worlds expeditions and so forth. Those events are wonderful to participate in but they are definitely not something for everyone imho

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If Fdev think a particular feature isn't up to a standard I can understand why they wouldn't add it in the first place. That's not the case here, it was added to the game (years ago). There was no need to remove it.

There are plenty of areas of the game that were not up to standard and have been improved upon.

About the only non-contentious example that immediately comes to mind is the docking computer. When I bought the game (Jan 2015) it was a liability, and only in the game because of tradition (and traditionally it was always a liability). It wasn't removed, it was improved, and is now being added to with a new module that will dock and undock too. But the old 'dock only' module is not being removed.

Irrelevant.

A more contentious example would be legacy engineered modules. FDev went to great lengths to ensure no player lost out. That care was not taken with the exploration changes, but could easily have been simply by not removing the old modules. Experience with the 3.3 changes bears this out - there was no need for them to be removed.

I think all legacy modules should have been removed with a refund of materials.

 

[Enderby]

You can't have anything for free. Sorry. And you say mini-game as if it's a bad thing. If this is a mini-game then so is driving your car, doing your job, even eating. I'd like to be able to get nutrition by osmosis so I don't have to stop to eat. Life itself is nothing but a series of mini-games. That's all the developers have to go on. So if using the FSS is a mini-game, then everything is a mini-game, even docking and launching. It may be a more enjoyable mini-game, but it's still a mini-game.

Oh, and just so you know, exploring is 95% boredom. That's just the nature of the beast. When you watch Star Trek or some other science fiction program that shows an exploration ship, you see the action. You don't see the days upon days of just cataloging. Because you're right, it's boring. But that's space exploration for you.

People kept saying Exploration needed a some refinements. And when they give it to us, people still complain; because it's not what they wanted. FD just can't win. They do nothing and they're accused of apathy. They do something and people still complain. Sheesh.

Yeah but... the 'refinement' is more annoying than the original method.

I'm not saying the 'refinement' should be removed. Clearly, a lot of work went into it.

But it would be to everyone's advantage, and to no one's disadvantage, to let us have the choice of both.

 

[KellyR]

Yeah but... the 'refinement' is more annoying than the original method.

I'm not saying the 'refinement' should be removed. Clearly, a lot of work went into it.

But it would be to everyone's advantage, and to no one's disadvantage, to let us have the choice of both.

So why would anyone except explorers use the FSS then if there were both. Having both wouldn't actually remove the FSS, but it would not be used nearly as much. Except by the hardcore explorers who didn't want to fly to each body, which would clearly take longer than using the FSS.

And having a module that can see all the bodies in the system with a honk should take up a at least one equipment slot. It's all about trade-offs. You can't see everything from just a honk, but you also get an additional equipment slot to make up for it.

 

[Riverside]

So why would anyone except explorers use the FSS then if there were both. Having both wouldn't actually remove the FSS, but it would not be used nearly as much. Except by the hardcore explorers who didn't want to fly to each body, which would clearly take longer than using the FSS.

And having a module that can see all the bodies in the system with a honk should take up a at least one equipment slot. It's all about trade-offs. You can't see everything from just a honk, but you also get an additional equipment slot to make up for it.

The module would only be of use in virgin and partially explored systems yes, the functionality is already provided in explored systems.

I think that if the FSS resolved bodies to the same level of detail the initial ADS honk did (partial information) it would make sense that the ADS no longer be available, and that building the system map would be the initial step on entering a virgin system. Then to get the (old) DSS info the player would travel to the body as before, and once there could then choose to go even closer to map it. This, to me, makes sense.

However there was a desire to not have to travel so far in supercruise (not from me, FDev stated it as one of their design goals), so the FSS provides the full info from a distance & travelling to the body is only required for mapping. But this also means there is no longer a need to remove the ADS (the most powerful of the three), and the changes to the way tagged & pre-populated systems are handled there just isn't any justification for the removal of the old modules, and no balancing reason why they couldn't be added back in.

 

[Faded Glory]

Of course it does.

Matter of opinion, obviously. I don't find the FSS to require much effort at all.

Who cares. It was of no consequence in the old way because you just open up the system map to see what's there. You didn't need to count them. That's just silly.

And personally I can see what's there from the spectrum.

I'm sorry, but valuable bodies were easy to spot in the old system. With the FSS you have to rely on your knowledge of the signatures if you don't use the slider. Using the slider automatically makes it more effort.

As above, I can see immediately if there are any 'valuable' bodies from the spectrum. Tuning to them takes no time at all. YMMV.

I personally think we get too much information with the initial scan and would like some of it bundled into the probes. But to say that scanning was more difficult in the old system is just not true. More time consuming, yes, more difficult, no. The FSS does not scan every object with a honk. Have you used it yet as this is blatantly not true. It will auto scan anything in a 10ls range which is not far. As to the old system, I can't see flying in a straight line for an autoscan to be done is anyway more complex or difficult. In fact I see it as easier but more time consuming.

I never said it was difficult.

And that gameplay is still there. Probing planets is more valuable then scanning them and you need to fly there to do that. Also when atmospheric planets become landable, then I can see the need to probe most planets. Especially if they hold back some the info from the initial scan to the probes.

Missing the point.

There is no effort in flying to bodies.

Mental, not physical.

It requires more effort then flying in a straight line to autoscan something which automatically makes it more challenging and difficult then the old version, which was pretty much brain-dead as it got.

YMMV. I don't find the FSS takes much, if any effort.

You can still find steller forge anomalies with the FSS. In fact using the FSS to find them is so much more interesting as you get to see the relationship they have with the other nearby planets/moons in much more detail as you discover it.

Interesting is subjective. No one is trying to take away the FSS from those who find it fun and immersive.

I don't get this argument about steller forge anomalies as it is blatantly not true.

Stop accusing people you disagree with of lying.

As I said, remove the spectrum in the FSS. If you want to find ELW's or any other valuable or interesting bodies you have to scan everything to see if it's what you are looking for.

I don't believe that would be popular.

Dismissing the argument about stellar forge anomalies is wanting to have your cake and eat it. Very few would be happy with the FSS if they didn't know, before they started scanning that there was going to be something worthwhile. Yet that is what anomaly seekers have to do. Scan the whole system and hope that there is an anomaly there.

You argue incessantly with those suggesting an optional ADS could enhance exploration, despite the fact it would not impact anyone who didn't want to fit one.