The broken record cuts both ways including youBut it's great Tennis to pull this whole thing up like a court case, even more ridiculous the attempt to put those in the dock whose only offence is to like what they got. Just brilliant!
And then this never ending haggling like camel merchants over something that never has been offered in the first place. Mind-bogglingly.
While some of these armchair advocates meanwhile sound like a broken record
Honking nowadays reveals nothing in the system map.You still can fly to planets to explore them. You can honk. Open up the system map. Cherry pick what might be interesting and fly to it. You get close enough poof it’s discovered, game even tells you it’s discovered. That function was not removed. You can choose to not use FSS and still do it the previous way.
I owe you an apology here MAX..Okaaay. Not too sure what your issue is. None of what you are saying makes any sense. Why are you in combat mode when exploring. Why are you unneccsarily coming to a halt to honk. You are the one complaining about it. All I was doing is showing you that there is a faster and more efficient way to do it. If you like it as it is, why are you complaining.
All it is, is showing you there are other ways. I don't give a rats backside if you change it or not. I just find it a bit odd. Lets complain about the time it takes, then someone shows you that it can be shorter, then you shout at them for telling you that. Also I don't get the bit about not being able to steer your ship.
Also what the hell has four years of honking got to do with anything I said. I have had well over four years of honking. Does that make me the winner?
Your post is unnecessarily aggressive.
No worries mate. Glad you got your bindings sorted.I owe you an apology here MAX..
I have just re organised my keybinds, and at the time of this 'heated discussion' I did not realise that I could Still honk from outside the FSS, I had bound my buttons incorrectly (probably still have) and was having to be very careful lest I enter FSS mode while skimming at flat out and crash into the star,
My fault, I was wrong.
Sure. While I'd say looking for glowing green gas giants is the high league of cherry picking, don't you think so? Cherry picking never had to be about credits and in a way we're all cherry picking.As stated in post #1 it's not about credits nor cherry-picking.
Sometimes it is. In the other thread DarkFyre99 gave an example of surface deposit surveying, which was made obsolete by including the mats data in the DSS scan results. The FSS provides this detail too, albeit not longer in an optional way as it was before 3.3. I provided an example where the 20,000ly route plotter effectively eliminated a challenge I enjoyed too.Taking away something from a game is sometimes just necessary to gain some gameplay in return.
I disagree here. I think having the material percentages shown was not good. That should be done with the probes. It would make a better gameplay loop for planets without POI.Sometimes it is. In the other thread DarkFyre99 gave an example of surface deposit surveying, which was made obsolete by including the mats data in the DSS scan results. The FSS provides this detail too, albeit not longer in an optional way as it was before 3.3. I provided an example where the 20,000ly route plotter effectively eliminated a challenge I enjoyed too.
In both cases it was improving the game, but at a cost - power creep. Lots of updates have done this kind of thing.
That is a matter of opinion. I found the old mechanics cheap. To add them back in would cheapen the game for me.That isn't the case with the removal of the old discovery functionality, one set of features was added, and another, separate set of features was removed. I gave an analogy of adding jump gates & nerfing jump ranges, again in another thread. Adding jump gates has pros & cons, but doesn't require any change to the pre-existing fast travel mechanism, they can both co-exist. Same with this.
There are a shed load of things that (like you) cheapen the game for me, some of which greatly disadvantages my chosen way of playing (since Game Drop), telepresence can affect other players not doing it (if I understand correctly) as someone many light years away away can 'te-pres' in to their mate's game and shoot you, affecting you in a negative way.I disagree here. I think having the material percentages shown was not good. That should be done with the probes. It would make a better gameplay loop for planets without POI.
That is a matter of opinion. I found the old mechanics cheap. To add them back in would cheapen the game for me.
Jump gates would also cheapen the game for me.
So in my view, it would have a negative effect on the game whether I don't have to use it or not. Just like galaxy wide telepresence cheapens the game for me, even though I don't use it.
All these inconsistencies, even though I don't have to use them would add a detrimental effect on the game for me.
I don't think we understand eachother. However i can see the root of this misunderstanding, let me explain. Glowing gas giants have been brought up in this thread however should You re-read the very first post i stated as follows:Sure. While I'd say looking for glowing green gas giants is the high league of cherry picking, don't you think so? Cherry picking never had to be about credits and in a way we're all cherry picking.
Take the "GGG"s for all i care. Seen one, seen them all. It's only a texture that changes. Similar applies to credits. With FSS credits are even easier to obtain....magnificient system is noticeably increased by enforcing players to perform whole scan and gauge whether it's worth staying(and now the important part - not for the credits but for the views). Oddities such as quaternary systems of moons and stars, odd orbits, bodies orbiting very close to eachother.
Agreed. Many have stated that they take joy in revealing the map bit by bit. Which is fine. I had the same feeling, bellieve me. FSS reveals everything an aspiring explorer / cherry picker would need to know. Then again for me i don't care for virtual values such as "surface temperature", "atmospherical pressure" since until we get atmospheric landings these mean nothing.And that's the point. Take credit cherry picking out for a moment and realize that an unresolved local map means to me what GGGs means to others.
Agreed. However in this case let's be frank more has been added than taken away. There was little to no exploration gameplay previously. FSS feels like a proper scanner.Taking away something from a game is sometimes just necessary to gain some gameplay in return.
I can only say that "we" are not game developers. Maybe there is a way to make everyone happy. Maybe it's completely and utterly different from what we've seen introduced to this date.We both want something that is inherently incompatible and telling otherwise is just false or dishonest.
If what you are hunting for is possibly the last remaining illusion of some truly procedurally generated content, not this randomized pre-configured boredom that pretends to be PG, then yes: I can understand that all too well. It's just not the kind of exploring that I ever liked or want to support (talking about the mechanics, not the lacking PG content where we're sitting in the same boat I guess). I do understand that I was a bit too long in defense mode, while doing basically the same with my prefered method that you did with yours. The difference is that my position incidentally has "officially" won (certainly not my merit, so don't blame me nor am I proud of anything) and there's no reason to me for being defensive anymore.I don't think we understand eachother. However i can see the root of this misunderstanding, let me explain. Glowing gas giants have been brought up in this thread however should You re-read the very first post i stated as follows:
... [broken link removed, wasn't quotable]...
Once again i would bring a concept picture introduced earlier in this thread: (padron me not linking the post proper)
Certainly, IMO this is true, the FSS isn't challenging and if the reward is nothing (another rocky / icy uninteresting body - NOT credits), why would I want to spend any time at all looking at it, let alone examining it?Then again FSS quickly becomes a very tedious task. Once You've mastered it there's no challenge at all. What is left is a gameplay which is most of the time unrewarding. With most of the star systems being a main star and couple of rocky / metal bodies in a straight line.
I must say, I personally have never called for or suggested the FSS be removed. I know some people hate it with a vengeance, but I don't. I just feel it should be one of a number of tools that players have to explore, not the only tool.Of course maybe we would like some form of ADS to return. But if it's not a "best" solution / game mechanic it's because it's what we've had all these years, gotten used to and have no better idea of a system which would suit exploration gameplay. After all, pardon us, but we are not(guessing, may not apply to everyone) game developers. So we are asking for something we know. And making it optional. Hopefully, balanced.
Edit: Oh, and please do remove the auto-scan function so that I only have to leave my name on things I actually to want to.So, to keep it as simple as possible.
Option 1: A basic system map module providing a targetable map with generic bodies with no identifiable information. This would allow those who either don't care what they are looking for, or want to use their skill and knowledge of the stellar forge to make educated guesses, then target the bodies and fly to them (or subsequently fire up the FSS).
Option 2: A nav panel module that lists all bodies as unexplored and available for targeting. No map view.
Option 3: An advanced system map that provides shape and color information, but which is not targetable. Players can identify things from the map, but must use the FSS to locate and scan them.
Only one map module can be installed in a ship at a time.
Same here. Along the course of this thread i have explained numerous time that i do not encourage nor support removal of FSS numerous times.I must say, I personally have never called for or suggested the FSS be removed. I know some people hate it with a vengeance, but I don't. I just feel it should be one of a number of tools that players have to explore, not the only tool.
Or make it toggleable through the new ship UI. We got a lot of spare space in there after all.Edit: Oh, and please do remove the auto-scan function so that I only have to leave my name on things I actually to want to.