Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner
- Thread starter ThatSmileyGuy
- Start date
I would not hold out much hope about them reworking the FSS, similar feedback was raised during the Beta.
Maybe they will relent wrt the OP's suggestion but I will not be holding my breath.
Either way, it should not stop us from presenting our point of view.
Its also very handy when not exploring and looking for signals and such, all round win really.
Of course, when in the bubble, while you certainly can use the FSS to identify signal sources and mission targets, there are also alternative ways to do those things.
Scanning the nav beacon will identify all currently spawned USS and any mission targets in the system, and you can still target an unknown signal source in SC and it will resolve as it always did before.
Apparently it's not a huge issue in the bubble that players have an alternative method of doing things...
Of course, when in the bubble, while you certainly can use the FSS to identify signal sources and mission targets, there are also alternative ways to do those things.
Scanning the nav beacon will identify all currently spawned USS and any mission targets in the system, and you can still target an unknown signal source in SC and it will resolve as it always did before.
Apparently it's not a huge issue in the bubble that players have an alternative method of doing things...
Yep, good isn't it.
Yes, very. Choice is very good.
Probably why they retained all the ADS's functionality in the FSS.
Only in previously discovered / scanned systems, surely... So yes, the functionality is still there for a system map reveal to be available, it's simply (artificially) hidden if the system / body has not been previously scanned.
And it's a bit inconsistent with regards to your example as honking no longer resolves mission targets as it used to, players have to drop at the nav beacon and scan it, so my point was that players are under no obligation to use the FSS when not exploring, everything they need to do is possible without ever entering the FSS screen.
I'm also wary (against actually) of any integration of the FSS with any ADS type of reveal, I firmly believe it should be an optional module. Some people have a deep aversion to the ADS reveal with regards to exploration, and it would be very disappointing for them to have such a reveal imposed upon them and spoil their gameplay so that is something I wouldn't support.
You just need to stick the tuning bit in the right area to reveal mission signals with the FSS. They're mostly in the bubble though so the nav beacons always a possibility.
From what I could tell regarding mission specific USS there wasn't a way to differentiate those from all the others. Could be wrong, but yes, scanning the nav beacon identifies the actual mission USS and it is easily identifiable and targetable from the nav panel.
Looking for specific signal sources other than mission ones, while again very quick, just emphasized to me how random the spawns are as I might have to identify a dozen or more sources that I didn't care about to find the one I did, assuming it was even there (say I was looking for HGE's as an example). Scanning the nav beacon and identifying all currently spawned USS in one go just flows better for me. I have no issue using the FSS to identify USS that spawn later although again I can just target them from SC to identify them.
As I've said, I have no problem using the FSS, but I think it's good that in the bubble it's optional and players have choices about how they can achieve things. I presume this is intentional on FD's part, and in relation to this thread (and others like it) think it would be a good thing for players to have alternative ways to do things in exploration gameplay too.
From what I could tell regarding mission specific USS there wasn't a way to differentiate those from all the others. Could be wrong, but yes, scanning the nav beacon identifies the actual mission USS and it is easily identifiable and targetable from the nav panel.
Looking for specific signal sources other than mission ones, while again very quick, just emphasized to me how random the spawns are as I might have to identify a dozen or more sources that I didn't care about to find the one I did, assuming it was even there (say I was looking for HGE's as an example). Scanning the nav beacon and identifying all currently spawned USS in one go just flows better for me. I have no issue using the FSS to identify USS that spawn later although again I can just target them from SC to identify them.
As I've said, I have no problem using the FSS, but I think it's good that in the bubble it's optional and players have choices about how they can achieve things. I presume this is intentional on FD's part, and in relation to this thread (and others like it) think it would be a good thing for players to have alternative ways to do things in exploration gameplay too.
I don't have a fixed way I'll drop into nav beacon if I'm after an assassination target because they sometimes drop in after you, usually I just use the FSS.
You've got the same amount of options with the FSS as you can still resolve targets by flying towards them.
Please, I've already asked representants of both sides to accept that this is a matter of personal prefference. Let's all try to avoid that. Some like the FSS some don't.
Fair point. I see where You are coming from. Yet I can't help but notice that said accomplishment, at least in my case and those I've spoken to, is not considered an achievement after revealing the system map of a very common configuration for hundredth time. Achievement actually comes from finding an extraordinary system and is a reward in intself. I'd go as far as to assume that You do not go about reading every single information provided by FSS scans in a very basic system consisting of say Y class star surrounded by seven rocky bodies all in separate orbits.
I found myself doing exactly that. See, system map is important to me and those I'm trying to represent here. So we did try to perfect our scanning technique to minimise still enormous time requirement to find systems we find worth staying in based not on what is in the system but rather how the bodies are located.
So it's fair to say there is a group that does find FSS a chore. Something that can easily be resolved using already available assets / code within the game. All we need is a choice. For everyone
That right there is the kind of feedback we were looking for in this thread. Opinions, ideas, compromises. Thank You.
I admit that this thread seems to have gone a bit off the track. People started focusing on battling eachother insead of focusing on the core idea of this thread.
It's as good an argument as "There are those who don't like the FSS and have to deal with it / accept it in the open space".
Please make sure to truly understand the nature of the request. Which has already been explored, explained and hopefuly clarified in the course of this thread : to allow players to have a choice : FSS or Automated Charter(Let's from now on try and avoid using ADS, it seems misleading to many)
Even have the cost for initial honk be loss of initial payout of the 'honk'. It's all we want. For photo explorers that would be still a win. We explore to find something truly(pardon the pun) stellar. System map would allow aforementioned explorers' group to achieve that in less (already) unreasonable time.
You still would be able to. Stick to the FSS and have all the interesting numerical values You are interested with. We don't want FSS to change. We would like to have new elements introduced. Those that would expand already existing exploration mechanics.
Having FSS and resigning from Automated Charter would be a viable strategy.
I stated many times that I like the FSS as a mechanic.
Not "all" mind You. Please re-read the thread or make Yourself familiar with post #295.
Not sure if You are aware that initial honk does not reveal the map outisde of the bubble most of the time(meaning virgin systems).
Please reffer to my remark above or to the post #295 in this thread which puts the nature of the request in this thread in the best possible perspective.
To everyone in this thread :
We don't want to change / remove / rollback the FSS.
We would like a way to expand on already existing game elements.
Giving everyone choice to choose their own method.
In a manner that would hopefuly satisfy both sides.
Thank You.
We don't aim to change that. That mechanic is something that does fit the nature of the FSS. However this is not the nature of our request. We are talking about exploration solely. Not missions.
I'm still thinking that You do not have the clearest picture of the nature of the request of this thread. We don't want to change existing FSS mechanics.
Only to introduce the system map reveal in such a way that it would be optional.
Previously You didn't use the system map to locate assassination mission's target.
Happens too often.
Appologies, I do support your initiative it is just some are overly dismissive of what you are trying to achieve.
Yes, I do not like the FSS and would prefer not to have to use it while exploring and agree with you that there should be an alternative. Your proposal is along the lines of a compromise that at least some of us were promoting during the Beta of 3.3 thus while I hope FD finally take notice I do not believe they will do so. They seem to pay too much attention to the anti-honk crowd and that is part of the problem.
I think it is yourself and others who can't accept why the can (should) co-exist.
There has not been even ONE good reason raised why they can't/shouldn't - especially in a form similar to that proposed by the OP.
The way I'm seeing it is both system co-existing since FSS does appear as the fun extension of carrying out the scan. With it being point-and-click by nature it not only makes the endeavour more efficient but fun first and foremost. However I'm beggining to see Your point here. Right, if explorers were to give up the quick scan mechanic for the sake of quick reveal mechanic with slow scan I'm all in for that. That is the aspect I've not taken into considreration, thank You for bringing that to light.
That, among other propositions, is a fair trade-off for having that mechanic back.
Edit:
Other possible balance of those two could be additional inclusion of long timer before one could start scanning the system using the FSS. Kind of binding Automatic Charter users to stay true to their module level playstyle declaration.
Or have FSS on timer but allow the use of FSS after certain percent of bodies scanned "manually"(by flying up close to them).
Maybe make the module a guardian module.
If that speaks in favour of balance of them not being excluseive We would be delighted to see it. Should it be a matter of using either of the two I think we would swallow that too. The key here being actually finding interesting systems in less unreasonable time. If we have to make compromises so be it. I'm open to suggestions.
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I can not back this idea in any shape or form... unless you are talking a FULL return of the ADS mechanic and the FSS being an alternate upgrade option - effectively replacing the BDS in default ship builds. Which was also proposed by some during the Beta and resoundingly rejected by others like myself.
Even then I fundamentally disagree with the exclusive proposal, your original proposal is far more balanced and reasonable.
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Yes, yes. Pardon me if I made it unclear.
Having player use either ADS or FSS. See, the ADS side gives up quick scan for the sake of quick reveal. And vice versa. That is what I think that picommander is trying to underline here. I might be wrong though. See post edit section in my post #326 for further coexistence balancing ideas.
Honestly, myself I don't see much issue with the system proposed by the first post further backed up by You being reintroduced. Picommander if I missed out on Your idea of the systems not being able to coexist, please elaborate.
The thing is, the idea that a system map reveal is somehow quicker or easier is simply not true, other than for spotting unusual stellar forge anomalies. And then it's not simply quicker, it's the only way of spotting them without fully scanning a system.
Using the FSS, when you drop into a system you can immediately see how many bodies and what body types are there with total accuracy and certainty. No need to closely examine an energy spike, simply roll your tuner over it to see definitively what it is. Looking for ELW's (a pretty common exploration goal)? No problem, you know with certainty, very quickly that one is present before you need to do any scanning.
Looking for POI's (another common goal in exploration post 3.4)? You know before you have to fly to the body that they are present. This is intentional so players don't have to spend time flying to a body only to discover there was nothing worth seeing there.
Nobody complains about this, yet they object to the idea that players looking for anomalies should be able to see whether what they are interested in is present. No, those players have to scan the whole system first, and if it wasn't what they were looking for? Tough.
The two systems are perfectly capable of coexisting, and there's no advantage to having both other than an imagined one. Honestly I find it hard to understand how people playing the same game can be so hostile towards another group, insisting that they and their gameplay should suffer if they want to do things differently.