Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

[Ted Striker]

You can't have anything for free. Sorry. And you say mini-game as if it's a bad thing. If this is a mini-game then so is driving your car, doing your job, even eating. I'd like to be able to get nutrition by osmosis so I don't have to stop to eat. Life itself is nothing but a series of mini-games. That's all the developers have to go on. So if using the FSS is a mini-game, then everything is a mini-game, even docking and launching. It may be a more enjoyable mini-game, but it's still a mini-game.

Oh, and just so you know, exploring is 95% boredom. That's just the nature of the beast. When you watch Star Trek or some other science fiction program that shows an exploration ship, you see the action. You don't see the days upon days of just cataloging. Because you're right, it's boring. But that's space exploration for you.

People kept saying Exploration needed a some refinements. And when they give it to us, people still complain; because it's not what they wanted. FD just can't win. They do nothing and they're accused of apathy. They do something and people still complain. Sheesh.

Well the reason people still complain is because they wanted things to discover, not a new way to discover the same old boring moons and gas giants. This game really is a mile wide and an inch deep. There is nothing out there. There's a tiny pocket of space with Thargoids but the rest of galaxy is utterly empty.

400 billion star systems containing nothing at all.

There are no hidden pirate bases to assault, no crashed convoys carrying expensive materials (aside from the random signal sources), no aliens to make first contact with, no life to find, no strange anomalies, no wormholes. You can explore for years and find nothing. You can have been out in the galaxy exploring since 2014 and within those five years find only stars, moons, gas giants and a small sprinkling of earthlike planets, which you can do nothing with.

And in something like Star Trek, which I love btw, they discover all kinds of interesting and crazy things. They even had an alien species discover them and make their ship come to them at the center of the galaxy. There are things to discover on that show and a genuine reason to explore.

FSS is no substitute for genuine exploration, just like grinding is no substitute for genuine gameplay.

 

[Stigbob]

This game really is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Lol, somebody missed the scale of the galaxy when they bought in.

Some people like the whole vast emptiness of it all.

 

[Ted Striker]

Oh I didn't miss the scale I just expected a bit more sci fi in it, especially a few years after launch.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well the reason people still complain is because they wanted things to discover, not a new way to discover the same old boring moons and gas giants. This game really is a mile wide and an inch deep. There is nothing out there. There's a tiny pocket of space with Thargoids but the rest of galaxy is utterly empty.

400 billion star systems containing nothing at all.

There are no hidden pirate bases to assault, no crashed convoys carrying expensive materials (aside from the random signal sources), no aliens to make first contact with, no life to find, no strange anomalies, no wormholes. You can explore for years and find nothing. You can have been out in the galaxy exploring since 2014 and within those five years find only stars, moons, gas giants and a small sprinkling of earthlike planets, which you can do nothing with.

And in something like Star Trek, which I love btw, they discover all kinds of interesting and crazy things. They even had an alien species discover them and make their ship come to them at the center of the galaxy. There are things to discover on that show and a genuine reason to explore.

FSS is no substitute for genuine exploration, just like grinding is no substitute for genuine gameplay.

There are more things to discover, and yes people were crying out for better mechanics which we have now got.

But to get some truly different stuff, then I think we will likely have to wait for atmospheric planets. There is only so much you can find on a planet without an atmosphere.

 

[Stigbob]

Oh I didn't miss the scale I just expected a bit more sci fi in it, especially a few years after launch.

Yeah its unreasonable of FDEV not to have hand crafted it or something, for reasons.

 

[KellyR]

Well the reason people still complain is because they wanted things to discover, not a new way to discover the same old boring moons and gas giants. This game really is a mile wide and an inch deep. There is nothing out there. There's a tiny pocket of space with Thargoids but the rest of galaxy is utterly empty.

400 billion star systems containing nothing at all.

There are no hidden pirate bases to assault, no crashed convoys carrying expensive materials (aside from the random signal sources), no aliens to make first contact with, no life to find, no strange anomalies, no wormholes. You can explore for years and find nothing. You can have been out in the galaxy exploring since 2014 and within those five years find only stars, moons, gas giants and a small sprinkling of earthlike planets, which you can do nothing with.

And in something like Star Trek, which I love btw, they discover all kinds of interesting and crazy things. They even had an alien species discover them and make their ship come to them at the center of the galaxy. There are things to discover on that show and a genuine reason to explore.

FSS is no substitute for genuine exploration, just like grinding is no substitute for genuine gameplay.

The problem here is, we need landable atmospheric planets. Hopefully when this happens, there will be a lot more to discover. As for airless landable planets, there's only so much to find and that's at the mercy of the Stellar Forge program. Or do you expect them to spend time putting things in tens of thousands of systems by hand? They'd be doing nothing else. Of course there is the BGS but that only goes so far and it's mainly economic and political. Should they expand it to include pirate bases on airless worlds? Probably. The problem is that the system is so complex that even small changes will have a big, often unintended and unwanted, impact. But then simulating an economic system isn't just supply and demand. There's politics involved as well and that alone add to the complexity by orders of magnitude.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

ftfy

Nope. I was correct in the first place.

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

It was most likely removed because it was crap. I think that's a fair reason.

I thought

That's Your personal opinion. Sure enough that the first mechanic seemed a little lackluster. Even I ground my teeth having to haul myself over long distances to scan something i found interesting. Then again i can't help the feeling that now that it's gone i noticed it's useful side. The one that helped me notice systems i was interested in much faster than now.
See, You might keep saying "it's crap" but for many it is not. You can't deny that it did make it easier and faster to find interesting body configurations.

FDev ask for feedback.

It seems that for people around this forum there is a very fine line between feedback and "whining" :/

Yeah its unreasonable of FDEV not to have hand crafted it or something, for reasons.

I in my take the author of the post You are quoting only highlighted how the galaxy seems empty. Which is not the subject of this thread.

 

[Stigbob]

I in my take the author of the post You are quoting only highlighted how the galaxy seems empty. Which is not the subject of this thread.

When people have to resort to that sort of lazy and unrealistic criticism it just weakens your argument.

It seems that for people around this forum there is a very fine line between feedback and "whining" :/

The above example isn't feedback, its definitely just whining.

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

When people have to resort to that sort of lazy and unrealistic criticism it just weakens your argument.

Never meant to use it as an argument. Much more i wanted to highlight we are going off topic here.
And yes, i recognise that wanting the whole galaxy to feel "packed with content" is quite unrealistic(both in terms of immersion and work needed to fulfil such task).

 

[Stigbob]

Never meant to use it as an argument. Much more i wanted to highlight we are going off topic here.
And yes, i recognise that wanting the whole galaxy to feel "packed with content" is quite unrealistic(both in terms of immersion and work needed to fulfil such task).

I meant he used it as an argument that's why I said "people" not you.

 

[Wildcard]

I personally dislike many aspects of the FSS and think that the Detailed Scanner should have been incorporated into it instead of being another seperate module.

If the ADV Scanner is readded then simply moving anything Scanned with the FSS to a multiplier thus incentivizing people to use it. This would go with the Quality Over Quantity which many players still do regardless of the new adition and never open the FSS as it can be fustrating and a redioucous time waster. As this Mini Game has some weird quirk that it will not allow you to zoom in on an object for instance this is most notable when you have HMC (HighMetalContent) Worlds and Rocky Worlds being so close to each other in this mini game slider bar thing. I am Sure many of you know what I am talking about, especially when you come across those 75+ Body systems and only a small few of them end up being HMC. I personally Hate (yes i know thats a strong word) The whole mini game slider without so much as a fixed scroll from one Signal Source Type To The Next Forcing you to manual Slide back and forth instead of your bound key jumping to the next frequency.

Further more the systems in place allow already for the Detailed Scanner to be Intergrated into the FSS if Provided with one more level of Zoom and then being able to fire Probes from the FSS. Instead we now have to get Even Closer then previous versions of the game where you could engineer for Enhanced Range there by cutting down on the time need to get within range for a level 3 scan. With this removed the Range for any body regardless of Size now is something like .30ls to be able to even deploy probes. I Hate this mechanic and has basically ruined exploration for me. Not to mention that some larger bodies that take upwards of 22 Probes and still be at efficiency while only having 3 means you have to wait before you can deploy more. Again More and More and More Time Sink, I thought the idea was to reduce the amount of Grind in the game. Instead this whole thing as added far more. While WF will say "Watch how fast I can scan this system" in a small system with now more then 10bodies, Watching this play out on Stream and hes not even using the FSS.

If its not clear to everyone at this point already I was a bigger fan of jump, honk, Check system map, and then deciding if I wanted to stay and scan or not. Now its alot more using EDDB/EDSM/R2R's to find those systems that are actually worth it and not spending my time wandering around on the off chance I may find something worth it any more, because its not even having sold several pages of first discovered and first scanned having only gained 10-15% Exploration Rank. This to me is not worth it and the exact opposite of what Fdev said they were going to do and intending to do.

So now it begs the question do I really need 3xElite? Once you have your first elite rank whats the point other then bragging rights? In a game whose player base has been better, while I am hoping honestly that the down trend is just everyone taking a break from it. As all we as players really have to go by is https://steamcharts.com/app/359320 which only clearly shows spikes and drops but if you look close you can see each time it drops the returning spike grows less and less. It will spike for a month or two and then the player base drops for 3-4 months and bleeds a couple thousand players every 6months.

I love ED and I want to see it succeed for many years to come, But there are many things I and Many of you know and feel that they could do better; and it makes me wonder where their priorities are at and what kind of a future this space sim is going to have.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I personally dislike many aspects of the FSS and think that the Detailed Scanner should have been incorporated into it instead of being another seperate module.

If the ADV Scanner is readded then simply moving anything Scanned with the FSS to a multiplier thus incentivizing people to use it. This would go with the Quality Over Quantity which many players still do regardless of the new adition and never open the FSS as it can be fustrating and a redioucous time waster. As this Mini Game has some weird quirk that it will not allow you to zoom in on an object for instance this is most notable when you have HMC (HighMetalContent) Worlds and Rocky Worlds being so close to each other in this mini game slider bar thing. I am Sure many of you know what I am talking about, especially when you come across those 75+ Body systems and only a small few of them end up being HMC. I personally Hate (yes i know thats a strong word) The whole mini game slider without so much as a fixed scroll from one Signal Source Type To The Next Forcing you to manual Slide back and forth instead of your bound key jumping to the next frequency.

I do not have that issue. Check your bindings. I prefer the manual slider myself because it works perfectly fine and that is with systems with over 50 bodies as you have described. Not sure why you are having an issue.

As to the credits multiplier thing. No thanks, that is not what I want. That would be rubbish.

Further more the systems in place allow already for the Detailed Scanner to be Intergrated into the FSS if Provided with one more level of Zoom and then being able to fire Probes from the FSS. Instead we now have to get Even Closer then previous versions of the game where you could engineer for Enhanced Range there by cutting down on the time need to get within range for a level 3 scan. With this removed the Range for any body regardless of Size now is something like .30ls to be able to even deploy probes. I Hate this mechanic and has basically ruined exploration for me. Not to mention that some larger bodies that take upwards of 22 Probes and still be at efficiency while only having 3 means you have to wait before you can deploy more. Again More and More and More Time Sink, I thought the idea was to reduce the amount of Grind in the game. Instead this whole thing as added far more. While WF will say "Watch how fast I can scan this system" in a small system with now more then 10bodies, Watching this play out on Stream and hes not even using the FSS.

I want to have reasons to travel to the planets. Probing them is one of those reasons. You idea of probing from the FSS is just silly. So you can send probes from where you are to a planet that is 100,000 ls away in a heartbeat. That makes no sense. Awful idea.

If its not clear to everyone at this point already I was a bigger fan of jump, honk, Check system map, and then deciding if I wanted to stay and scan or not. Now its alot more using EDDB/EDSM/R2R's to find those systems that are actually worth it and not spending my time wandering around on the off chance I may find something worth it any more, because its not even having sold several pages of first discovered and first scanned having only gained 10-15% Exploration Rank. This to me is not worth it and the exact opposite of what Fdev said they were going to do and intending to do.

EDDB/EDSM will only have stuff from previously visited aystems. Also what do you meaning by wondering around, how did you do it before. A lot of the time I jump, honk, open the FSS screen, decide if I want to explore the system some more, if not jump away, if I do, I start scanning and if I see something interesting I will fly to the planet and probe it.

So now it begs the question do I really need 3xElite? Once you have your first elite rank whats the point other then bragging rights? In a game whose player base has been better, while I am hoping honestly that the down trend is just everyone taking a break from it. As all we as players really have to go by is https://steamcharts.com/app/359320 which only clearly shows spikes and drops but if you look close you can see each time it drops the returning spike grows less and less. It will spike for a month or two and then the player base drops for 3-4 months and bleeds a couple thousand players every 6months.

You never needed a first elite rank in the first place. I don't look at them because they don't mean anything.

As to steam charts, they are pretty meaningless. All it shows is concurrent players from those using steam and does not show the player base at all. It could mean that the same players are still all playing, just playing less and therefore not all playing at the same time.

I love ED and I want to see it succeed for many years to come, But there are many things I and Many of you know and feel that they could do better; and it makes me wonder where their priorities are at and what kind of a future this space sim is going to have.

Of course they can do better. The FSS can be made better, the planatery probes can be made better. Every part of the game can be made better. Thankfully the FSS is better then the old version which was as brain-dead as it got. It's far from perfect though.

 

[lenna]

I personally dislike many aspects of the FSS and think that the Detailed Scanner should have been incorporated into it instead of being another seperate module.

I kind of disagree with this given...

Legacy exploration

1. Scans with just the xDS - location and appearance revealed only on discovery scan, near body scan only reveals IDs of bodies
2. Scans with the DSS - near body scan more detailed information of bodies in addition to IDs
3. Points of interest on the surface require sub-orbital flight and/or SRV surface exploration.

Current exploration

1. Scans with the FSS - honk tags things for scanning (only already reported body positions and appearance are shown), FSS mini-game reveals position, ID and other details of bodies as well as allowing long range discovery of things that used to require a fly by
2. DSS enables space-golf mini-game for uncovering points of interest on planetoids
3. Near body scans can still can be used but are made much more awkward due to the lack of the legacy xDS (this effectively means exploration is killed for those of us that do not like the FSS implementation)
4. Surface exploration largely unaffected if you don't like space golf

In short, IMO the FSS cheapens exploration and adds poorly designed and thought through mini-games. The new mechanics are merely an infuriating hurdle that we are effectively forced to use for at least some of us.

If the ADV Scanner is readded then simply moving anything Scanned with the FSS to a multiplier thus incentivizing people to use it. This would go with the Quality Over Quantity which many players still do regardless of the new adition and never open the FSS as it can be fustrating and a redioucous time waster.

There is no good reason to incentivise the FSS if something akin to what the OP is proposing is added - Just make it so there is no (additional) in-game rewards (credits/reporting/discovery rights) for the initial honk (all bodies added regardless of reported status with the proposed unit fitted) and keep the rewards the same for near body scans and FSS scans. The FSS already provides enough incentive in itself by notionally being more time efficient and by being standard functionality of all ships.

 

[Enderby]

Yes, please!!!

 

[Enderby]

I kind of disagree with this given...

Legacy exploration

1. Scans with just the xDS - location and appearance revealed only on discovery scan, near body scan only reveals IDs of bodies
2. Scans with the DSS - near body scan more detailed information of bodies in addition to IDs
3. Points of interest on the surface require sub-orbital flight and/or SRV surface exploration.

Current exploration

1. Scans with the FSS - honk tags things for scanning (only already reported body positions and appearance are shown), FSS mini-game reveals position, ID and other details of bodies as well as allowing long range discovery of things that used to require a fly by
2. DSS enables space-golf mini-game for uncovering points of interest on planetoids
3. Near body scans can still can be used but are made much more awkward due to the lack of the legacy xDS (this effectively means exploration is killed for those of us that do not like the FSS implementation)
4. Surface exploration largely unaffected if you don't like space golf

In short, IMO the FSS cheapens exploration and adds poorly designed and thought through mini-games. The new mechanics are merely an infuriating hurdle that we are effectively forced to use for at least some of us.

There is no good reason to incentivise the FSS if something akin to what the OP is proposing is added - Just make it so there is no (additional) in-game rewards (credits/reporting/discovery rights) for the initial honk (all bodies added regardless of reported status with the proposed unit fitted) and keep the rewards the same for near body scans and FSS scans. The FSS already provides enough incentive in itself by notionally being more time efficient and by being standard functionality of all ships.

I am confident that FD will soon see the sense in this idea - and the fault in their current FSS implementation - and we can once more enjoy the galaxy.

 

[Burke]

I personally dislike many aspects of the FSS and think that the Detailed Scanner should have been incorporated into it instead of being another seperate module.

If the ADV Scanner is readded then simply moving anything Scanned with the FSS to a multiplier thus incentivizing people to use it. This would go with the Quality Over Quantity which many players still do regardless of the new adition and never open the FSS as it can be fustrating and a redioucous time waster. As this Mini Game has some weird quirk that it will not allow you to zoom in on an object for instance this is most notable when you have HMC (HighMetalContent) Worlds and Rocky Worlds being so close to each other in this mini game slider bar thing. I am Sure many of you know what I am talking about, especially when you come across those 75+ Body systems and only a small few of them end up being HMC. I personally Hate (yes i know thats a strong word) The whole mini game slider without so much as a fixed scroll from one Signal Source Type To The Next Forcing you to manual Slide back and forth instead of your bound key jumping to the next frequency.

Further more the systems in place allow already for the Detailed Scanner to be Intergrated into the FSS if Provided with one more level of Zoom and then being able to fire Probes from the FSS. Instead we now have to get Even Closer then previous versions of the game where you could engineer for Enhanced Range there by cutting down on the time need to get within range for a level 3 scan. With this removed the Range for any body regardless of Size now is something like .30ls to be able to even deploy probes. I Hate this mechanic and has basically ruined exploration for me. Not to mention that some larger bodies that take upwards of 22 Probes and still be at efficiency while only having 3 means you have to wait before you can deploy more. Again More and More and More Time Sink, I thought the idea was to reduce the amount of Grind in the game. Instead this whole thing as added far more. While WF will say "Watch how fast I can scan this system" in a small system with now more then 10bodies, Watching this play out on Stream and hes not even using the FSS.

If its not clear to everyone at this point already I was a bigger fan of jump, honk, Check system map, and then deciding if I wanted to stay and scan or not. Now its alot more using EDDB/EDSM/R2R's to find those systems that are actually worth it and not spending my time wandering around on the off chance I may find something worth it any more, because its not even having sold several pages of first discovered and first scanned having only gained 10-15% Exploration Rank. This to me is not worth it and the exact opposite of what Fdev said they were going to do and intending to do.

So now it begs the question do I really need 3xElite? Once you have your first elite rank whats the point other then bragging rights? In a game whose player base has been better, while I am hoping honestly that the down trend is just everyone taking a break from it. As all we as players really have to go by is https://steamcharts.com/app/359320 which only clearly shows spikes and drops but if you look close you can see each time it drops the returning spike grows less and less. It will spike for a month or two and then the player base drops for 3-4 months and bleeds a couple thousand players every 6months.

I love ED and I want to see it succeed for many years to come, But there are many things I and Many of you know and feel that they could do better; and it makes me wonder where their priorities are at and what kind of a future this space sim is going to have.

What a nice post that sums up how many of us feel. Unfortunately i think the ED you love is infact dead and gone. The FSS was forced on everybody cause lets be honest thats the only way they could get the vast majority of explorers to use it. It wasnt done to remove grind, it was a spiteful troll aimed at people who had no grind and were happy playing the game. Let go of your love for ED, the devs do not love you and if they gave a hoot there would have been an answer by now You need to accept that the game you once enjoyed has been vandalised beyond (ahah) repair at this point. Even if the took the thing away there is no way to fix the damage done by auto discovery. BTW i saw a stream of will trying to FSS and he failed alot and got mad, tells its own story really doesnt it.

 

[Stigbob]

What a nice post that sums up how many of us feel. Unfortunately i think the ED you love is infact dead and gone. The FSS was forced on everybody cause lets be honest thats the only way they could get the vast majority of explorers to use it. It wasnt done to remove grind, it was a spiteful troll aimed at people who had no grind and were happy playing the game. Let go of your love for ED, the devs do not love you and if they gave a hoot there would have been an answer by now You need to accept that the game you once enjoyed has been vandalised beyond (ahah) repair at this point. Even if the took the thing away there is no way to fix the damage done by auto discovery. BTW i saw a stream of will trying to FSS and he failed alot and got mad, tells its own story really doesnt it.

Have you actually tried it out yet, or are you still basing your opinion on that OA video you once watched ?.

I'm out in the black really enjoying grabbing explorer elite, FSS is loads of fun and a massive improvement.

 

[Burke]

I'm out in the black really enjoying grabbing explorer elite, FSS is loads of fun and a massive improvement.

Well thats nice. Im surprised you had time to post considering how engaged you must be. When we look for somebody to blame i guess it would be those people who keep talking about how great it is. Congratulations, you helped to ruin ED.

 

[Enderby]

FSS is loads of fun?!

lol come on mate!