Alternatives to grind?

There's already an alternative to grind designed right into this game....


... stay poor!

:cool:


Amen to that!

I've got credits in the bank and a fleet of ships. What do I do for fun? I hop in a Sidewinder or an Eagle and go joyriding and take some risks. The Adder is a blast to do missions in. Handles great - fun to drive.

If you're only consumed with earning credits, it will feel like a grind. If you enjoy things you can challenge your skills with, you can have all kinds of fun. Just watch Insinona's videos to get the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=isinona+elite+dangerous

I don't think he's ever driven anything bigger than a Viper, probably still has no credit balance, and probably has more fun in ED than anyone.
 
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Its only a grind if you make it a grind. Exploring for example, switch on Radio Sidewinder, a glass of you particular poison, set your route and chill.

Exactly. Get wasted, then it might be fun. Or have at least a 2 monitor setup and put this on the one you aren't focusing on. Watch a movie or tv show while you play then it won't be so bad. Wait what?
 
I've never found Elite a grind. As soon as I'm bored with one thing I go off and do another. Sometimes what I'm doing makes me money and other time it loses me it. I'm in no rush to leave my python for anything bigger, although I am tempted to sidegrade to a FDL.

I'm now grinding RES in my viper to get money for a Python. So you say you never grind in your Python? Can't wait to finally get it ;)

It costs only 57 million cr. I have now... hmm. 2,600,000cr. Long grind ahead.
 
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Now I like this. This is where I enjoyed Elite but as soon as I sat in a good outfitted Viper, Elite god very very dry. It suffers in depth in the medium - upper grinding levels.
"It's only a grind if you make it so." Well, I want to fight, but I need good equipment for that, and I need 17 mio cr for a military armor on my dropship. That's just as much as a dropship costs.

I am not asking for a cr boost kit or something, more like something that gives you credits independent from the time you spend in. You could either earn more or less credits than this liniar trading stuff.
This shall not give you like 50 mio cr for one artefact or somethign similar. maybe like 5 million after, let's say, 2 weeks of playing 2 hours a day. You find them randomly.

Or atleast missions that give a worthable pay. Who of you guys piloting a Viper/Cobra or better accept combat missions for 15k cr? I didn't even do them when I was a sidewinder. These missions are ridiculous nonsense. I don't even bother looking at the mission board because I know there is no mission that gives me 500k cr or more.

It is a beginning to add missions for higher grind-progress levels. Maybe kill 3 NPC anacondas at once for 1 million cr?

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Missions definitely need an overhaul, especially faction related ones, but if you have a dropship and want to focus on combat, have you considered dropping to a vulture? I just got one, and am tearing everything to pieces, it's quite shocking :p. You would be able to afford a really good one too. I've not fought players cos that's not my bag, and I haven't got a dropship myself, but
I suspect that the vulture would put a spring in your stride :)
 
You don't need to have many millions of credits or a huge multimillion ship to enjoy the game.

I bought a Cobra Mk III almost a year ago, I'm still flying it and see no need to upgrade, it does all I need.

You really need to get out of the "biggest/most expensive ship is the only aim in the game" mindset.
 
Ignore the grind and play for fun. Take your time and enjoy the game as it grows.

This! This! This!

Enjoy mining/smuggling/fighting/running from bounty hunters etc without always just concentrating on the credits! Sneak into a station without being spotted by employing all means possible (heat management, avoiding patrols, flying a small ship), make a game of running as a pirate from the authorities with a big bounty on your head, mine in a wing in a low security system with different roles (some wingmen as protection, some to use mining laser, some to scoop rocks), spot visually rare planets or those with unique properties and so on and so on.

Just focusing on maximising the profit makes the game dull. Instead try all the intricit gameplay mechanics ED offers you, even if they don't yield you a boatload of cash!
 
One alternative to grinding would be to utterly master flying in a less expensive combat-oriented ship. If you're a really great pilot in a Viper you can clobber people who've gotten bigger/more expensive ships by grinding trade routes -- you don't learn combat flying grinding a trade route.
 
Neither of these should be considered the correct way of playing a game.

Credits should be a means to an end. Currently there is no 'end' for the means to be justified. The means should not be considered the end because the means that is also the end then becomes meaningless.

Even worse is considering "just playing" to be the end. A game that you play is required to have some form of progressive content, some structure for you to become invested in. In this respect, the flight mechanics, the combat and the trading e.t.c. are only an investment for a very small amount of time. Because none of them ultimately lead to any functional progress other than the circular credits>ship>credits loop, all 'ends' quickly become devoid of any reason for personal investment. Simply, there is no substance and adequate meaningful progress in ED to keep the majority of players that have been playing for longer than a week or two, invested enough to keep playing.

No matter which way you look at it, this is a massively problematic and indefensible design flaw in ED. "Use your imagination" is an extremely bad justification for this void in place of what should be meaningful content.

You might as well put a box on the floor and sit in it and pretend you're Han Solo. Or open a dictionary and "imagine" the story among the words. It is the same argument. A game is supposed to keep you entertained with adequate content and unfolding player<->gameplay feedback as time goes on. Elite doesn't do this. Every game out there has this as it's central concept. I don't know what ED is trying to prove but side stepping fundamental design considerations as a means to be 'different' is both massively missing the point of what makes games worth playing and incredibly stifling to it's own potential.

"Having to use your imagination" is not, and should never be considered, a design choice. It is at best a feeble justification at covering up a lack of meaningful gameplay. There is a reason we don't like the idea of having to use our imaginations in todays world, because the literal reason we approach mediums such as computer games, simulated inside virtual instances on complex computer systems, as that we no longer have to use our imaginations. To argue that playing is the only point that ED requires is, to me, grasping at straws, and really missing the point. ED is the only game I have ever come across that "having to use your imagination" is a central concept of enjoying the game, especially considering it is an online computer game released in 2015. If that doesn't speak loudly enough for it's self and get this point through to those of you defending it, then nothing will.

Despite what my point may have led you to believe, I agree with what you are saying to a point. I agree that there is something fundamental lacking that will at some point drive this game into the dust for most players unless it's fixed.

However, I'm a middle aged man who grew up poor. I literally made space ships out of bic pen lids and HAD to use my imagination to play games. I didn't feel deprived at the time, and I still don't now.

To me, this game allows a retreat from my daily grind, it distracts me in a way that really doesn't have any consequences.

So to say that my aimless wandering around shooting ships or trading bits and pieces or scanning systems, with no goals or real considerations of the wider galactic politics (such as they are) is not the correct way to play, seems somewhat judgmental to me.

Whether or not it's more judgmental that me offering my perspective on how to play the game is debatable, but I wasn't asking for the judgement, whereas the OP was.

With all that said, if there was a better background system, I might play some of that.... so what do I know?
 
Wheres the grind? It's all in your head man. Live in the moment and if your'e bored. Turn it off. Simple really.
The game is far from perfect but hotdiggetynippletwister im having fun. And when i get bored... ill go play something else (shock horror unbelievable).
 
Wheres the grind? It's all in your head man. Live in the moment and if your'e bored. Turn it off. Simple really.
The game is far from perfect but hotdiggetynippletwister im having fun. And when i get bored... ill go play something else (shock horror unbelievable).

I am sorry, but I have to agree with the OP.
 
The mistake is making your goals ones that require you to grind (when you do not like to grind) like many who have spent all their gameyime grinding up to an Anaconda and then once they get it don't know what to do next.

If you enjoy an apect (or many) then just do it (or them). The CR, ewuipment and ranks will take care of themselves.
 
Despite what my point may have led you to believe, I agree with what you are saying to a point. I agree that there is something fundamental lacking that will at some point drive this game into the dust for most players unless it's fixed.

However, I'm a middle aged man who grew up poor. I literally made space ships out of bic pen lids and HAD to use my imagination to play games. I didn't feel deprived at the time, and I still don't now.

To me, this game allows a retreat from my daily grind, it distracts me in a way that really doesn't have any consequences.

So to say that my aimless wandering around shooting ships or trading bits and pieces or scanning systems, with no goals or real considerations of the wider galactic politics (such as they are) is not the correct way to play, seems somewhat judgmental to me.

Whether or not it's more judgmental that me offering my perspective on how to play the game is debatable, but I wasn't asking for the judgement, whereas the OP was.

With all that said, if there was a better background system, I might play some of that.... so what do I know?

I think this is hitting the core of the community disparity we're experiencing. Right now, ED sells its self as an online, persistent MMO; but it's built very much as a casual game. If your aim with ED is escapism, a few hours here and there of casual space flight and imaginative fun, then of course, ED shines amazingly.

The problem begins where ED begins to try and present its self as something more than a casual game, which it is attempting to do. So far that attempt hasn't worked out. It is arguably in the middle of a bit of an identity crisis. It supports the framework, and presents its self for, lots of long term investment motivators. But through various aesthetic/philosophical choices, it chooses to restrict its self to a depth sufficient only for a casual "every now and again" type of game where you can dip in and out at your whim and not worry too much about "the bigger picture". The problem is that there isn't really any satisfying bigger picture for the part of the community that want a more solid, ongoing, substanced experience that they can dedicate their minds to in a more than casual way. The complaints and requests for new implementations regarding ED really do fundamentally only ever stem from this one thing. This is where it all comes from.

You really can't have both worlds, because what you end up with is what we currently have. If you are going to have a persistent multiplayer world, you need to also provide persistent, arcing, progressive content; and you need to implement it well. It seems the current perspective at FDEV is to add to this persistent framework, a series of very casually themed mini game mechanics (USSs, Bulletin board missions, Exploration mechanics, Mining, Interdictions, Warzone instances e.t.c.). Taking on to the end of that these ad-hoc narratives that feel as disparate as they are shoe-horned. It simply is not engaging enough to bridge the gap between these islands of casual mini games, bringing them together in a way that satisfies a player with ideas for long term investment in something substanced. An expectation born from other games of the same format, and the quality of content that they present the player in terms of this aspect of game theory.

As the game stands, it is substantially no more than a collection of minigames grouped under a common brand within a persistent framework. But the different mechanics are so disparate, little islands of their own, or outright lacking, that no true persistence and progression can take place in terms of the communities that will inevitably develop inside the persistent online world. All we are currently able to do now is to "team up" our persistent avatars to perform these isolated, cyclic mini games ad-infinitum. This is frustrating, especially when the community is already there, desperate to have enough substance implemented to allow development of meaningful long term motivators. Frustrating that we can see the potential that ED can provide in terms of longevity and substanced content, tantalizingly close to our fingertips yet never attainable, often through mind boggling and mysterious self imposed limitations on part of the game design. To put it another way, Elite Dangerous makes very clear claims about the kind of game it isn't, yet I am still to come across a clear description of what the game is, without the inevitably self defeatingly circular and side stepping descriptions as "use your imagination" or "you're just a pilot". what is the purpose of ED? what is the prescribed reason for playing? What is the USP on its design brief? ... I can't find a meaningful answer to that which satisfies the requirements of the type of game it brands its self as. Hence: Identity crisis. It is trying to be too many things and not be too many things, without having a clear sense of anything that it's supposed to be. It is suffering immensely because of this.

It seems to indeed simply default then, to a theme park, as much as people seem to disagree with this. You travel around this persistent arena on your own or with friends and take part in a series of "fun" gameplay themes. The problem though is that it presents its self as a persistent online multiplayer, which unavoidably comes with it's own expectations, a prescribed identity, and attracts certain types of gaming communities that naturally hold these. Expectations that by nature include gameplay more serious than the shallow casual options we are currently limited to. Things that are in themselves fine for that part of the community that is only looking for a casual, all be it immersive, experience; but this simply is not enough for what is quickly becoming the majority player base. And this is why, aside from dilly dally debates and differing opinions, this disparity exists within the community as it stands and ramparts are slowly being drawn. This is also not healthy for the game.

Games have become much more 'serious' since 1984, back when such mechanics may have indeed seemed 'serious' in their own way, compared to the cannon of choice back then. But things are quite factually and inescapably very different in todays world. As much as Elite is sticking to it's roots, it really needs to contemporise its self in some very important places, massively ramp up its quality in said areas, get realistic about the kind of community within its game world and the type of demographic it is willfully marketing its self at as a product. Especially when it presents its self as a persistent multiplayer experience.
 
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So you want to be rewarded for minimal effort? No, I don't think we need that.

Grinding does not mean effort.
In modern game theory, good design often relies in effort being also engaging. "Grind" is effort that is not engaging, but monotonous and alienating instead, which is the kind of "effort" Elite requires of you.

OP, if you want depth and meaningful effort you should try other games of the genre. Heck, at this point, after seeing the mind-boggling amount of entitlement and immaturity in this community I'm even tempted of recommending X Rebirth as an alternative.
Or, you know, a real hardcore space sim that is not an HD remake of a game from the 80s, like X3.

Look, I'm sorry. I think I will stop posting now.
 
Grinding does not mean effort.
In modern game theory, good design often relies in effort being also engaging. "Grind" is effort that is not engaging, but monotonous and alienating instead, which is the kind of "effort" Elite requires of you.

OP, if you want depth and meaningful effort you should try other games of the genre. Heck, at this point, after seeing the mind-boggling amount of entitlement and immaturity in this community I'm even tempted of recommending X Rebirth as an alternative.
Or, you know, a real hardcore space sim that is not an HD remake of a game from the 80s, like X3.

Look, I'm sorry. I think I will stop posting now.

No you're right. I completely agree with you on all accounts and I think you shouldn't stop posting. Your opinion is an important one round here, especially considering the points you raised and your understanding of the problems with the game.
 
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