Am I missing something or is this ED in a nutshell?

Ian Skippy · Mar 12, 2018

I went to two of the three Guardian ruins mentioned by galnet. Cool, I can now find stuff just using in-game info! Both look great, one reminds me of Machu Pichu, pretty pic stuff. Me=happy. There is some stuff to do, some risk, and it works without bugs. Well done FD! Then I notice I get one specific data thingy after completing the mini-puzzle. Not three, just one. And I need 22 to unlock the three modules that require them. Then I need four more of the other thingy at the other base. Am I correct that FD puts in two cool locations, adds a unique 'quest', finally adds all needed info in-game, and then messes up by expecting me to do this 24 more times?

If so, could some community manager who reads this please tell Sandro et al. that 'now do this n-number of times' is not good game design? I for one am not going to do that. It turns what started as a cool experience into a chore. 'now do it 24 more times' doesn't add to the fun. It diminishes it.

Nagual · Mar 12, 2018

sleutelbos said:
I went to two of the three Guardian ruins mentioned by galnet. Cool, I can now find stuff just using in-game info! Both look great, one reminds me of Machu Pichu, pretty pic stuff. Me=happy. There is some stuff to do, some risk, and it works without bugs. Well done FD! Then I notice I get one specific data thingy after completing the mini-puzzle. Not three, just one. And I need 22 to unlock the three modules that require them. Then I need four more of the other thingy at the other base. Am I correct that FD puts in two cool locations, adds a unique 'quest', finally adds all needed info in-game, and then messes up by expecting me to do this 24 more times?

If so, could some community manager who reads this please tell Sandro et al. that 'now do this n-number of times' is not good game design? I for one am not going to do that. It turns what started as a cool experience into a chore. 'now do it 22 more times' doesn't add to the fun. It diminishes it.

This is one of several reasons why I avoid anything to do with plot / galnet / things. FDev do not understand why this sort of gameplay is so last decade. Hell, it was old back in the 80's.

Soric · Mar 12, 2018

Who needs better modules. All the crap in the game dies fast enough without it. I don’t want your handicap #refuse

SnowyNI · Mar 12, 2018

bitstorm · Mar 12, 2018

Heh it is odd when you think about it.

You can imagine in the office they're designing the mission, white boarding bits and pieces, working out all the detail, creating something pretty cool.

And at the end someone walks in and says, yeah that'll do, they have to repeat that 24 times job done, let's go for lunch!

I assume it's because one dept is asked to design a mission to get some blueprints and that then gets built. Then another dept takes that mission and has the job of balancing effort against the reward of obtaining the item, and the only tool they have is the ability to change a single variable n which is number of repetitions.

I think the effort required is reasonable, aye not so much the repetition.

I spose you can do different sites though? There are multiple layouts.

MadDogMurdock · Mar 12, 2018

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Ian Skippy · Mar 12, 2018

bitstorm said:
I think the effort required is reasonable, aye not so much the repetition.

But what would be wrong with just give me a blueprint after doing the mission? I have to go there, find the place, figure out what it finds, find the pylons, defend myself from the guardians then get back. How is 'do it 24 more times' more reasonable? Its seems wholly arbitrary to me. If they'd reduce the blueprint to just needing one it'd be fine with me. They could up some other stuff if they want, which you can get in multiple ways. But to require a lot of the one thing you can only find in one place by doing one thing is just silly.

Riverside · Mar 12, 2018

sleutelbos said:
I went to two of the three Guardian ruins mentioned by galnet. Cool, I can now find stuff just using in-game info! Both look great, one reminds me of Machu Pichu, pretty pic stuff. Me=happy. There is some stuff to do, some risk, and it works without bugs. Well done FD! Then I notice I get one specific data thingy after completing the mini-puzzle. Not three, just one. And I need 22 to unlock the three modules that require them. Then I need four more of the other thingy at the other base. Am I correct that FD puts in two cool locations, adds a unique 'quest', finally adds all needed info in-game, and then messes up by expecting me to do this 24 more times?

If so, could some community manager who reads this please tell Sandro et al. that 'now do this n-number of times' is not good game design? I for one am not going to do that. It turns what started as a cool experience into a chore. 'now do it 24 more times' doesn't add to the fun. It diminishes it.

Newly introduced stuff tends to be initially hard, then gets easier with subsequent updates - the barrier to entry is lowered. I'm not excusing the mechanism you describe though.

Mostly however, I feel you should remember to quote this post next time you are accused of always white-knighting

sollisb · Mar 12, 2018

bitstorm said:
Heh it is odd when you think about it.

You can imagine in the office they're designing the mission, white boarding bits and pieces, working out all the detail, creating something pretty cool.

And at the end someone walks in and says, yeah that'll do, they have to repeat that 24 times job done, let's go for lunch!

I assume it's because one dept is asked to design a mission to get some blueprints and that then gets built. Then another dept takes that mission and has the job of balancing effort against the reward of obtaining the item, and the only tool they have is the ability to change a single variable n which is number of repetitions.

I think the effort required is reasonable, aye not so much the repetition.

I spose you can do different sites though? There are multiple layouts.

I actually wonder quite a lot, when they're sitting down designing gameplay.. Are they smoking wierd stuff.. Most it makes no logical sense from a 'keep the player happy' point of view. It seem like they get an idea, and think, "Ok, guys I like this, now, how can we really annoy the playerbase with this?"

Or, naybe it's a case of, 'we have nothing better lets stretch this out as much as we can'

BlackSpaceCowboy · Mar 12, 2018

sleutelbos said:
If so, could some community manager who reads this please tell Sandro et al. that 'now do this n-number of times' is not good game design? I for one am not going to do that. It turns what started as a cool experience into a chore. 'now do it 24 more times' doesn't add to the fun. It diminishes it.

I totally agree with you.

You want the reward (unlock three modules) but the game is forcing you to do something you don't like to get your reward (solve 22 repetitive puzzles). I think it would be great if you could do something you actually enjoy doing and still eventually unlock the content you want to play with.

DarthRavadge · Mar 12, 2018

Agreed. This was excessive. Took me nearly 18 hours total because of the stupid pattern epsilon. Protip- Park next to an obelisk and relog after every scan. 10x faster than driving around. On the bright side you only have to do it once. (Til the next guardian module set)

Enderby · Mar 12, 2018

sollisb said:
... Or, naybe it's a case of, 'we have nothing better lets stretch this out as much as we can'

I have a feeling it's this.

Dutchman141 · Mar 12, 2018

sleutelbos said:
I went to two of the three Guardian ruins mentioned by galnet. Cool, I can now find stuff just using in-game info! Both look great, one reminds me of Machu Pichu, pretty pic stuff. Me=happy. There is some stuff to do, some risk, and it works without bugs. Well done FD! Then I notice I get one specific data thingy after completing the mini-puzzle. Not three, just one. And I need 22 to unlock the three modules that require them. Then I need four more of the other thingy at the other base. Am I correct that FD puts in two cool locations, adds a unique 'quest', finally adds all needed info in-game, and then messes up by expecting me to do this 24 more times?

If so, could some community manager who reads this please tell Sandro et al. that 'now do this n-number of times' is not good game design? I for one am not going to do that. It turns what started as a cool experience into a chore. 'now do it 24 more times' doesn't add to the fun. It diminishes it.

Exactly what I was thinking!!

I went to one Guardian Structure that gives out the weapons blueprint.
Did the puzzle which was fun and shot the sentinels, also fun.
Then I looked in my inventory, one blueprint............
I need twelve for both weapons........
I have to repeat this twelve times ?

Packed my bags and headed home.

I've done one grind in the three years that I play this game, my Cutter rank, never again.
This is so not creative.
Sure the Guardian Structures are nicely made but what were they thinking.
"Here are some nice weapons, to obtain them solve this puzzle, now do this same puzzle twelve times."

Nope not interested.

MadDogMurdock · Mar 12, 2018

sollisb said:
I actually wonder quite a lot, when they're sitting down designing gameplay.. Are they smoking wierd stuff.. Most it makes no logical sense from a 'keep the player happy' point of view. It seem like they get an idea, and think, "Ok, guys I like this, now, how can we really annoy the playerbase with this?"

Or, naybe it's a case of, 'we have nothing better lets stretch this sh*t out as much as we can'

It's likely a combination of things.
The default to grind design philosophy.

And the result of two separate teams' work with poor oversight.
Team Guardian - go implement a puzzle that rewards with unique data.
Team Shinies - go implement some new Guardian weapons.

Shiny PO - hey we need to gate this, what new mats are coming in?
Sockpuppet - Guardian Weapon Blueprints
Shiny PO - right, so 10 of them then.

rain_walker · Mar 12, 2018

It was meant “to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different modules...

Bdragon4 · Mar 12, 2018

You're joking, right? Did you do any research before buying this game?

Any review out there can tell you that Elite Dangerous is a grindfest.

And yes, that's all Elite is so far. Take nice pictures, see neat things, grind until your keyboard no longer functions. Repeat.

Enderby · Mar 12, 2018

But, why are we surprised that it's another grind?

TheGrimCorsair · Mar 12, 2018

Elite: Dangerous is mostly grindier than Warframe while not being f2p. Here you have to *pay* for the right to press your face against the belt sander.

Elan · Mar 12, 2018

Seems to be the case all too often.

The original Ram Tah mission lost its shine long LONG before I'd finished it!
Collecting unknown fragments? Was cool the 1st couple of UA's... but after that? zzzzzzzzzz

Ian Skippy · Mar 12, 2018

Bdragon4 said:
You're joking, right? Did you do any research before buying this game? Any review out there can tell you that Elite Dangerous is a grindfest.

No, I didnt. Maybe because I bought this game before there were reviews...