Am I the only one who thinks the AI is challenging?

[Deleted member 110222]

This is basically true.. However, I do wish there was special locations you could take your engineered ship for a much harder challenge. It kind of sucks that you get anywhere near the top ships and you become totally invincible to the AI..

I once suggested such a thing. Got shot down. Apparently people get triggered by the word raid, which I was only using as a catch-all term.

Yes, I made a suggestion for Uber-hard AI challenges, knowing I personally would never do them. Shocking, I know.

 

[Nerwan]

It's not going to be long for someone to say 'play in Open' and thereby miss the point completely.

Well, that certainly is more of a challenge, which is exactly why I play in open However, I take your point. It's important that PVE also takes the challenge right up tot he top level too. Apart from anything else, there's a huge skill gap in moving from the highest the AI has to offer to PVP (for those that want to) but there's also plenty of PVE players who enjoy a good challenge in their top flight ships.

I once suggested such a thing. Got shot down.

Yes.. I don't get that point of view.. Why is having areas of high challenge which are entirely optional a bad thing..

 

[Aashenfox]

I have a tactic for those who aren't very good, it gets the NPCs every time and is easy to do in almost any ship, cos all you need is 2 class 2 railguns with 2* or 3* long range engineer modification to do it. Faster drives is also a nice mod to have as speed is useful (but not critical) to this tactic. The engineer mods are cheap and from the easiest guy to unlock: Todd Blaster.

How to do it...

Let's say you've been interdicted, one of two things happens, either the enemy starts firing immediately, or they hang around in front of you scanning. In either case, face in their approximate direction and boost past them until you have at least 3k distance. Now turn flight assist off, set throttle to zero, and pull up to face back toward your enemy. BEcause flight assist is off and throttle is 0, you will continue in your current direction. As soon as you almost have them in your crosshairs, turn flight assist back on and full reverse throttle (or 3/4 if you're a fast ship, you don't want to get totally out of range). You are now flying backwards at your cruising speed, facing your enemy. The 2* long range railgun mod will give you 3.5km range, so aim for that, but 3* will give you 4 to 4.5k which is very nice.

Anyway, at this point, you will notice that everytime your crosshairs go over the enemy, they lock ever so slightly, a slight effect like a gimbal. This is designed on purpose to assist with the convergence of manually aimed weapons, but the effect is that it makes railgun sniping very easy. Pop off a few shots as best you can, by then they'll be 2k away and starting to fire, use any direction of thruster that isn't forward or back (up, down, left or right) to sidestep some of the fire, boost, fire any other weapons you have as you go past, then boost again and repeat. You can stay out of their effective range for the majority of the fight, while still getting damaging hits on them. This tactic is of course immune to chaff as well. Give it a try.

The fact that they can't adapt to this tactic is indicative of their limitations. In my opinion, they could be slightly better. If I do this tactic, they should then try to stick close to me (in which case I'll give them a load of beam and cannon hell, but only if I have a tanky ship), but no, they will keep jousting until they're dead or run away (they run away a lot the cowards).

 

[MarkAusten]

Well, that certainly is more of a challenge, which is exactly why I play in open However, I take your point. It's important that PVE also takes the challenge right up tot he top level too. Apart from anything else, there's a huge skill gap in moving from the highest the AI has to offer to PVP (for those that want to) but there's also plenty of PVE players who enjoy a good challenge in their top flight ships.

Indeed so.

 

[Aashenfox]

Well, that certainly is more of a challenge, which is exactly why I play in open However, I take your point. It's important that PVE also takes the challenge right up tot he top level too. Apart from anything else, there's a huge skill gap in moving from the highest the AI has to offer to PVP (for those that want to) but there's also plenty of PVE players who enjoy a good challenge in their top flight ships.



Yes.. I don't get that point of view.. Why is having areas of high challenge which are entirely optional a bad thing..

Because those who don't have any friends or skill get very upset that there is content (albeit optional) that can't be completed alone in a non-engineered ship. For some reason. Go figure...

With all these NPC factions, I don't understand why we can't have player guilds either, though I hope this (epic PVE content) is something that will be happening in the future.

 

[MarkAusten]

Because those who don't have any friends or skill get very upset that there is content (albeit optional) that can't be completed alone in a non-engineered ship. For some reason. Go figure...

With all these NPC factions, I don't understand why we can't have player guilds either, though I hope this (epic PVE content) is something that will be happening in the future.

As I recall FD have ruled out guilds but I could have recalled incorrectly.

 

[Aashenfox]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but the reason eludes me on a logical and gameplay-canonical level. The NPCs can have guilds, but we can't? Weird, to say the least. I don't think guilds are needed to have the epic PvE content I speak of, but I would very much like to have one of my own, with cargo and cash storage.

I know there's a bunch knee-jerkers around here that start frothing at the mouth whenever anyone suggests a gameplay element that WoW introduced, but the lack of ability to store cargo is also mind-blowing, and guild banks could be a way around that, as well as an enabler of group content.

Sadly the lack of guilds suggests that multiplayer PvE content may be something they are not even going to entertain (bar all going to alien ruins together to sing kum-by-ah and get killed by gankers while saying ooh and aah, which while nice, is not what the average sapce game player envisions when they see 'mmo in space', which is what Elite is by the purest definition). What most of those players envision, myself included, is epic fleet battles against capital ships, where adds have to be managed and tactics need to be employed...

Imagine having a fight with a capital ship in an asteroid field with 4 of your friends, where every 90 seconds the enemy emits an EM burst that strips your shields and scrambles modules for a short time if you are not hiding behind an asteroid when it goes off? Why won't I ever be able to participate in a faction's last stand before being forced to retreat, line up ten of us against 20 NPC ships outside their mailbox for a fight to the death. If we win, we get to torpedo the station. Something like that...

 

[LJITimate]

I wouldn't fire on an anaconda in a cobra3 but if im against a dangerous asp explorer its possible. it all depends on the ship and rank. they are a lot easier than the average CMDR in open but not super easy

 

[goemon]

has more to do with equipment than AI.

the high ranked AI is a good challenge on my secondary non-horizon no-engineering account.

on my main full-engineered stinkin rich account, i have to jump into an eagle, or attack wings in my DBS, or use a keelback if i want a challenge.

 

[noldunar]

They are challenging again but only because I recently switched to PS 4 Pro and the Dualshock 4 coming from KB and mouse. Even though the controls are pretty intuitive in non-stress situations I still struggle with coordinating all the sticks and buttons in a combat situation, at least against high ranked AI.

I have a B-rated Cobra III (just started out on PS 4) and had real trouble against a deadly ranked Cobra MK IV at a comp nav beacon, however most of it is due to lack of practice and struggling with the controls. On my PC account I take an A-rated Viper into a Haz Res or comp nav without trouble but on PS 4 I will need some time getting there. Still trying to find the perfect control binds.

 

[Aashenfox]

has more to do with equipment than AI.

This is quite true. You only need 3* engineered weapons, drives and shields and you're a god in anything from the Vulture up.

 

[Dirtbird]

I'm okay with the AI at the moment. I can usually beat any AI ship one size bigger than the ship I'm currently in although I will take on any AI ship in my Vulture. I've attacked large ships in a Cobra Mk III before and I'll usually win but have taken damage because I made some mistake along the way that ended up with the broad side of my ship peppered by rail guns, frag cannons or goodness knows what else.

I did run the other day when I arrived at a compromised Nav beacon in my Python while carrying gold, and I got set upon by pretty much everyone there. I couldn't kill them fast enough to not take serious damage, so I left. It's only rather lightly engineered and most definitely a general purpose build, so no shield or hull tanking ability there.

Having said that, I'd enjoy the occasional encounter with a NPC that would make me wet my pants. Perhaps keep towels handy.

 

[MarkAusten]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but the reason eludes me on a logical and gameplay-canonical level. The NPCs can have guilds, but we can't? Weird, to say the least. I don't think guilds are needed to have the epic PvE content I speak of, but I would very much like to have one of my own, with cargo and cash storage.

I know there's a bunch knee-jerkers around here that start frothing at the mouth whenever anyone suggests a gameplay element that WoW introduced, but the lack of ability to store cargo is also mind-blowing, and guild banks could be a way around that, as well as an enabler of group content.

Sadly the lack of guilds suggests that multiplayer PvE content may be something they are not even going to entertain (bar all going to alien ruins together to sing kum-by-ah and get killed by gankers while saying ooh and aah, which while nice, is not what the average sapce game player envisions when they see 'mmo in space', which is what Elite is by the purest definition). What most of those players envision, myself included, is epic fleet battles against capital ships, where adds have to be managed and tactics need to be employed...

Imagine having a fight with a capital ship in an asteroid field with 4 of your friends, where every 15 seconds the enemy emits an EM burst that strips your shields and scrambles modules for a short time if you are not hiding behind an asteroid when it goes off? Why won't I ever be able to participate in a faction's last stand before being forced to retreat, line up ten of us against 20 NPC ships outside their mailbox for a fight to the death. If we win, we get to torpedo the station. Something like that...

I've no idea why they decided against guilds but I do remember the argument against cargo storage as well as player selling goods to another player.

Personally, I don't envisage the type of game you would like, I'm not a PvP person, demonstrably since I only Solo, and the current level of game is good enough for me. To be honest the scenario you describe is pretty off-putting and there's no way I'd enjoy such a thing. But that's me and I'm sure that there are a few commanders that would like your ideas. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for me, I suppose, such a game play for a minority of players is unlikely to materialise any time soon although the Thargoids might do something like that.

This is quite true. You only need 3* engineered weapons, drives and shields and you're a god in anything from the Vulture up.

That's a good tip and if I ever decided to get my Elite combat rating, I'll be sure to remember it.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Guess it's because I'm just a pretty average pilot. Probably a bit less. I'm better dealing with cargo, running, and passengers. [yesnod]

I'm making this thread after getting my proverbial handed to me in a compromised nav' beacon today. I barely took out an Elite Eagle, and that Asp Scout was just too much. [blah]

Am I giving up? No... Nor am I complaining; actually I think it's awesome. No, I'm just going to re-outfit my brig to be a bit more passive. [up]

Let me tell you, I find trading in this game more enjoyable than looking for fights, personally. Of course, I can defend myself, and it wasn't like the Asp one-shot me, in fact he didn't even drop me below 90%. But I think it's suffice to say that I'm not one of these ace CMDR's who perform feats of godliness in their vessels, because whilst I survived, I couldn't scratch the Asp either. :|

So what do you think? Do you think some people complain about the AI because they're simply that good a pilot? This is meant as a compliment by the way. [cool]

Discuss.

In equally matched ships? Hardly ever a challenge.

In unequal ships to my advantage? Never.

In what seems like unequal ships to my disadvantage but when I'm engineered? Maybe.

In a trade ship v an equal ship fitted for combat? Unless escaping is my goal, maybe.

In unequal ships to my disadvantage when I'm fitted for trade and them combat? If not trying to escape, probably.

In unequal ships to my disadvantage and them in a wing? Yes

And as only an OK pilot that seems about right to me for the AI. Escaping and evading is always an option when trading and normally works unless I make a mistake.

 

[B1rdy]

This vid took what seemed like forever, just to kill 3 ships; my DVR is set to 6 mins & I guess about a minute is missing! How much harder do people want them? so that it takes 15 mins to kill three ships?

This is due to your time on target is pretty low. I think you would be better off with gimbals, which would make your actual dps higher.

& yeah, I appreciate I could do with some gitting gudder, but as a general rule, I think the AI are fine as they are now!

The variety of answers on this topic suggests, the AI is not fine all in all. For combat ready ships (I am not even talking about Wings) it is to easy, no real threat. For inexperienced players in non-combat builds it seems to hard. But if you learn this game and built your ship accordingly (i.e. you can't run in a T9, so you need defense systems!), you are not going to die under normal circumstances. Inexperience combat players in smaller ships need to pick their fights carefully, obviously, and need to know when to run - don't be greedy; the HAZ REZ isn't probably for you.

Regarding the predictability: AI in games need to be predictable for a player in order to make it fun.

 

[SMcA]

Yes they can be challenging. For any normal ship, especially if they start to gang up on you. My mission Asp only just escaped on Friday from an NPC encounter with 6% hull

The excitement!

 

[Vorxian]

Guess it's because I'm just a pretty average pilot. Probably a bit less. I'm better dealing with cargo, running, and passengers. [yesnod]

I'm making this thread after getting my proverbial handed to me in a compromised nav' beacon today. I barely took out an Elite Eagle, and that Asp Scout was just too much. [blah]

Am I giving up? No... Nor am I complaining; actually I think it's awesome. No, I'm just going to re-outfit my brig to be a bit more passive. [up]

Let me tell you, I find trading in this game more enjoyable than looking for fights, personally. Of course, I can defend myself, and it wasn't like the Asp one-shot me, in fact he didn't even drop me below 90%. But I think it's suffice to say that I'm not one of these ace CMDR's who perform feats of godliness in their vessels, because whilst I survived, I couldn't scratch the Asp either. :|

So what do you think? Do you think some people complain about the AI because they're simply that good a pilot? This is meant as a compliment by the way. [cool]

Discuss.

For me, all my combat is just flying in loops. I fly a loop over the computer, they fly a loop over me, and it's loop-the-loop-the-loop-the-loop-the-loop. The winner is the one that loops quicker. You can have the biggest god-rolled weapon in existence, but if you can't loop-the-loop-the-loop quicker than your opponent, then, your gun is simply cosmetic. AI for me tends to do things that seem quite impossible.. so aye, a challenge for me as well

Maybe i need to git gud, probably lol... flight assist mode switching is a) pain in the .. and b) all i hear at 4am when trying to sleep is: flight assist on, flight assist off, flight assist on, flight assist off, flight assist on, flight assist off, flight assist on, flight assist off, flight assist on, flight assist off, flight assist on, flight assist off.. I wake up screaming in my thoughts OMG... FLIGHT ASSIST!!!!, GIIIIVE MEEEEEE sleep assist... (then quaffing pints of night nurse in hopes the drowsy effect is instant)..

TLDR; challenging AI is challenging! Watching some PvP fights, i'd last even less... BOOM -shields offline- -malfunction malfunction- -engine offline- BOOM -warning omg omg- ... -what capacitor?- BOOM -more malfunctions- DEATH! (sponsored by Daz. Handwash & Twin-tub for brilliant whites & colours).

 

[Leper Messiah]

Guess it's because I'm just a pretty average pilot. Probably a bit less. I'm better dealing with cargo, running, and passengers. [yesnod]

I'm making this thread after getting my proverbial handed to me in a compromised nav' beacon today. I barely took out an Elite Eagle, and that Asp Scout was just too much. [blah]

Am I giving up? No... Nor am I complaining; actually I think it's awesome. No, I'm just going to re-outfit my brig to be a bit more passive. [up]

Let me tell you, I find trading in this game more enjoyable than looking for fights, personally. Of course, I can defend myself, and it wasn't like the Asp one-shot me, in fact he didn't even drop me below 90%. But I think it's suffice to say that I'm not one of these ace CMDR's who perform feats of godliness in their vessels, because whilst I survived, I couldn't scratch the Asp either. :|

So what do you think? Do you think some people complain about the AI because they're simply that good a pilot? This is meant as a compliment by the way. [cool]

Discuss.

I'm ok if I'm in control of the engagement and can choose when and what to engage. But the other day I was interdicted by a mission created master anaconda (I'm competent in a multirole python (bit of cargo, passenger cabins, fuel scoop, SRV)). the sod got me down to 90% hull and I was trying every trick in my (meagre) book. If I'd stayed to fight I would have been toast.

One of Elites biggest flaws is the inabilty to adjust difficulty, thus you have one sided fights (both ways).

 

[thirstyfish]

I consider myself to be an above average pilot. I find dangerous and higher ranked FAS, FGS, FDS, clipper, conda, FDL, and pythons to be a good fight. Elite condas and FDLs always give me a run for my money and I have to use some creative tactics to beat them (kiting them around a bit to recharge my shields). I don't see the need to make NPCs harder.

 

[HBK]

The AI has gone a long way since 1.0.

I find the current AI is in a much better state than before, if far from perfect.

There is now a clear and perceivable difference between combat ranks. Elite AI can be pretty tough, whereas Harmless AI barely even fire at you.

They don't exhibit impossible maneuverability anymore, at least in my experience.

They have some variety in their weapon setup (except for CZs and them Asp Railsplorers, Railpers Mk3, Eailguns Mk2, etc).

They use their setups semi-efficiently (popping up heat-sinks when SCBing, etc).

The two most annoying things I'd list are:

1. They use almost no RNGineered weapons. I'm not asking for overcharged DPS but when PvEing you never face any of the secondary effects, thus never have the opportunity to learn how to deal with them.
2. They seem to run full HRP builds (and they don't suffer from module damage the same way we do), thus when their shields are down you're in for quite some hull grinding.

As for the original question, it has been answered already. Depends on the ship, the level of RNGineering of said ship, and of course player skill.

I'm almost unkillable in my RGNineered Vette. Not so much in my RNGineered FdL, but still pretty hard to defeat.

What needs to be reminded though is that even a godlike pilot in an RNGineered warship can get in trouble if facing enough enemies. A wing of five Railpers can hurt you pretty badly if you don't dispose of them quickly.

So yea, the AI can be challenging, it all depends on what you're flying and how you're flying it.

Edit: As for why people are complaining, the most easily forgotten thing is not player skill, but player expectations. Some of us fly to relax. Some for the challenge. There's no way in hell you'll cater to both (unless you introduce the bog standard answer: solo difficulty settings).