“This NPC is in the top 1% of all NPC’s out there”
I have found this thread to be very interesting and a good read, I’m sure the Devs that have spent the last two and a half years creating odyssey have found it to be fascinating also.
Flimley
Am I the only person who is utterly unenthused right now about a generic FPS being shoehorned into my spaceship game?
- Thread starter killminster
- Start date
- Status
I have found this thread to be very interesting and a good read, I’m sure the Devs that have spent the last two and a half years creating odyssey have found it to be fascinating also.
Flimley
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I have to agree with the OP. I gravitated towards ED because it truly is a thinking mans game and you get to explore and shoot at things. FPS games never held my interest. FDEV is taking a big leap here by jump into an overcrowded field. On steam, I have the key word FPS filtered out because it's overhyped and overplayed. I burned out on FPS shortly after the original Castle Wolfenstein.
But I get it, some folks like the genre otherwise why would there be 2,965 titles on Steam today? But the way I figure it, if anyone can convince me to take another look at FPS, I'll give FDEV a chance. Although I really have to wonder what will be the odds that they aren't too late to an already over saturated market.
View attachment 211390
Heh, can´t speak for most of the other 2,962 games not shown in your pic but if you enjoy PVP games where team communication and coordination is a core element, I heartily recommend Squad
It seems an obvious point, but including FPS in Elite doesn't suddenly make Elite Dangerous 'an fps game'. Sure you could do fps only, but its essentially a hybrid where you can do as you wish.
No game of this size and scope is going to have all the individual parts as the same quality as other games (that do only those individual parts). People can rightly highlight the game's flaws, but if you want a space game with this level of depth, scope and options then ED is the only game in town, and until someone comes along and spends a long time making a better alternative, it will continue to be so.
I liked the video, the graphics look lovely and I think there's going to be enough variety in the number of bases, missions, locations, gravity, survivability, ways of doing missions, or just making your own up etc., to make the long term playability pretty good.
No doubt it will have its issues, but these are especially prevelant when you have to spend years massively iterating on a live game. No small task.
No game of this size and scope is going to have all the individual parts as the same quality as other games (that do only those individual parts). People can rightly highlight the game's flaws, but if you want a space game with this level of depth, scope and options then ED is the only game in town, and until someone comes along and spends a long time making a better alternative, it will continue to be so.
I liked the video, the graphics look lovely and I think there's going to be enough variety in the number of bases, missions, locations, gravity, survivability, ways of doing missions, or just making your own up etc., to make the long term playability pretty good.
No doubt it will have its issues, but these are especially prevelant when you have to spend years massively iterating on a live game. No small task.
Last edited:
Because the development time is so long, most players didn’t join from the start, and that’s ok, however you need to spend a lot of time to see what the goal was and still is.The Features they implement now should have been in the game right from the start. I always felt just like a Ship and not like a Person in this Game. I have to say i did not expect them to finally add spacelegs cause i simply thought they are not capable of pulling it off, maybe they will still proof me right when it launches and we run into a endless number of issues, but im Glad they try.
What drew me to the Game was the first trailer i saw, it showed the commander WALKING to the Ship and the first hour i played i desperatly searched for the Button to leave the ship until i opened up google and found out that this is not possible. I stopped playing and only came back when i had nothing else to do cause i felt kinda deceived. I am a long time player now, got over 4000 hours.... and i still pray to all the Gods that we one day get to land on a earthlike planet on wich i can build a base near a lake and unknown forests with new and unknown plantlife, animals and so on. Maybe one day
originally EDO was supposed to be how you START the game, with nothing and then work your way up, however we started with ships and fleet carriers and finally got feet
.now I guess the reason is they simply was not ready but the game to start with nothing was according to DB how he imagined the game.
there is even a mechanic where players can sneak aboard another players ship and steal it. Don’t know if we will ever see this function, I find it hard to believe because the salt will choke the forums and CS.
Still atmo planets, walking inside ships, cities, fauna, base building, companions, was all in the overall design manual from the beginning.
will it ever be in the game, I don’t know, however DB said that they will expand the game and keep updating the engine so that the game is still up to date now in 21 as it was in 14, sure you can argue who sets the bar? Well that’s Frontier but if you look at the game we had in 2014 and now there has been great upgrades to the graphics and a lot of what is going on in the engine room.
so yes spacelegs was a part of the game from the beginning, however we only get it now.
You're absolutely right in terms of the games' history, but I think it's a little dismissive to ignore David Braben's input here especially for those few remaining folk who were around for the Kickstarter. Certainly much of what he spoke about remains as pie-in-the-sky as it was in 2012, but you have to remember that for a while the only place ED existed in any form at all was in Braben's headcanon and a handful of cool but primitive technical demonstration videos. It may have been naive to believe we would eventually see everything he envisioned for his game, but as a general map to a potential future it was sound enough. And while I'm sure there were people even back then wondering why there were non-spaceship things being planned for a spaceship game, they would not have been many in number. On the whole the new ideas were seen as a positive vision, and they certainly drove pledges at the time.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge in the meantime, certainly, and there is definitely an argument to be had for ED sticking to what it does better than any similar game, rather than trying to emulate aspects of different genres. It's not an argument that I can embrace, because despite not actually liking much of what's been added over the years (I never do PowerPlay or AX, for instance) I do appreciate when the developers try to expand the canvas, even if not everything lands.
To me, where ED finds itself now is similar -- albeit on a much smaller scale -- to where the Star Trek franchise has ended up. So many new things have been added over the decades, some subtle, some radical, some almost inevitably in contradiction with what came before, that it's no longer possible for everyone to get on board with everything that flies under the Star Trek banner. And while some fans do enjoy all elements new and old, and others are happy to cherry-pick or ignore various aspects, still others get to a point where they feel that their past relationship with the franchise has been retrospectively ruined forever. There's nothing anyone on the creative side can really do about that; it just becomes impossible to please everyone.
Precisely. Like Star Trek, ED is less a genre of its own and more an expandable framework on which to hang material from other genres. Back in my dim and distant role-playing days we often used Traveller as our framework, because even though it had its own rich lore it also allowed influences from the high-concept politics of Dune to the uberviolent cityscapes of RoboCop to influence the content of campaigns. It's a lot harder to do that with a videogame than with a pen-and-paper RPG, so kudos must go to the developers of ED for giving it a shot.
Sure, Odyssey is unlikely to provide the best FPS experience any more than PowerPlay offers the best strategy game or the SRV gives the most realistic driving simulation. But the fact that we can do any, all, or none of those things from within an already tremendous spaceships game is something quite special.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm not expecting to get much at all out of the run-and-gun elements of Odyssey because they just don't appeal to me in this setting, although it would be nice if they do draw me in more than I'm expecting. But the overall expansion of the framework can only really be a good thing, even if what I personally gain from this iteration is minimal and mostly aesthetic.
Aside: as I was reminiscing about the SF influences on my Traveller games back in the day, a thought occurred as to one reason I may have been disappointed by the Odyssey mission demo. It's possible it's just too bright. I understand why FD will have done this, to highlight the atmospheric effects on the new planets, but it made the rendered colony look like one of the desert maps from Counterstrike. Or, if I'm being more generous, maybe Freetown from The Mandalorian. Now I'm wondering how much better it would look in twilight, or darkness. And if the new landable planets can also have the ground-level "fog" effects we sometimes see on non-atmospheric moons, the aesthetic you could have there is essentially Hadley's Hope from Aliens.
And now I'm intrigued.
The combat parts obviously need to be passable at least, but for my part I hope the enjoyment comes from increased player agency and interactions the BGS. My own biggest criticism is that player actions in the game often feel somewhat pointless, indeed it feels like sometimes we're involved in an attempt to highlight the futility of war and territory, which I'd agree with if not for the fact it's a game we're playing and not a philosophical simulation.
Players need to feel their actions matter so I hope things like repairing and powering up bases etc give a feeling of accomplishment.
Players need to feel their actions matter so I hope things like repairing and powering up bases etc give a feeling of accomplishment.
You gotta love the hubris on this particular quote, let me rephrase: "I know better than the author of the game what the game should look like and what the game is, and said author can now shut up and do as I say."
Yeah right.
As for all these frankly stupid remarks "go play other FPS game", I can't tell if these people are suddenly thinking we will load into FPS module as soon as we exit the ship, with FFA deathmatches and leaderboards and whatnots OR they are so stubborn and narrow minded that they fail to see how it opens up the game world in their "defend the status quo" holy rage mode.
Granted, never has been good at fleshing out placeholders put in game ages ago, but Odyssey happening is a breakthrough because it opens up the game world in the ways previously inconceivable. And no, SRV doesn't even come close. And as much as I hate using the word "potential" in context of Elite Dangerous, this has enormous potential. Whether FDev capitalises on it is another matter.
This is big. Don't let shortcomings overshadow the fact that it's a revolution of the same magnitude as Horizons once was.
Last edited:
Well if you want to play without Guardian FSD boosters and shield boosters sure. But eventually you will find yourself in an SRV.
Was talking about material gathering for engineering.
I don't get it. Their demo was early 2000's low fidelity with some super generic FPS gunplay. Is that really what they think the core base in Elite is clamoring for?
More people playing Elite have asked for legs to walk around and in their ships, than they have for this lame base assault gameplay.
I think you're wrong. Odyssey is going to be a flop based on what we have seen thus far.
I don't believe it'll be a flop, simply becuse of all the mindless, un-critical genX fanbois (guilty as charged). It could well, however, be a massive disappointment.
Exactly, and don't get me wrong I don't want to be seen as a white knight, however even though a lot of what was Imagined back in 2012 never will materialize in the game, the overall idea was and still is to make Elite a living galaxy, then again with 400 BILLION stars it's impossible to fill all of it with content, PG is the key here, and to make it look good and work without something weird comes out of it, is actually a challenge, just look at the faces we see in the game, GOD some of them really had some ugly parents I tell you! (all PG)
It's a long haul, remember when we had nothing regarding ATC, no greetings, just some brown text, then they actually implemented the ATC voices, the forum went ballistic, now we all take it for granted, because that's just how we are as humans.
The big problem as I see it, is how FDEV is using their resources, as an example CQC was a waste of money and time, sure we now got some of the structures in the game, but it was a lost opportunity to actually make the game more alive by using a new gameplay function, instead it was a bolt on addition, totally separated from the main game, and that is one of the biggest mistakes you as a game designer can do with a game of Elites scope.
Everything you do must be channeled through the main game or it gets lost. That's also why EDO is a good thing, it's a part of the game, you can do it or you can do what you always did, milling around in your ship doing what you always did. However it will add life to the game, because the player will now see people walking around even though they still are glued to the chair, now by their own choice.
So with all that babbling from me, what I would like to see is;
Me leaving my seat and go to a door then fade to the out side of the ship, that will be ok for me, when I enter the ship again, go to a door fade to my cockpit and enter my ship. That would be a happy moment for me, this is not how they explain it, then again I don't see how it would be a huge undertaking to make, but what do I know.
I don't want to see stupid AI, sorry CP2077 looking at you ^@!##@& and I really would like the C&P mechanics to make a logic sense.
Example: you take someone out, no one see you, DO NOT MAKE ME A MURDER BY PROXY, someone need to see it, and report it, and if the NPC find a body they should investigate, and not instantaneously connect the crime to you. Take notes FDEV!
For the exploration crowd out there, if FDEV use this opportunity, exploration could be some of the most fun part of ED, find crashed ships, go inside loot it for parts, find some documents leading to a secret lab or base on some godforsaken asteroid where you need to extract data, rescue a scientist, investigate what happen.... the possibilities are endless, again game design, use your imagination.
Haha, I thought it was pretty great as well, thank you!
But the point was that no one can deny Elite's pedigree, and that is: Spaceship game.
Yes it has evolved somewhat with the addition of the SRV and continues to with upcoming FPS regardless of my personal opinions. But for the biggest update in years to what, very subjectively, is the best spaceship game around to have nothing new involving said spaceships (that we know about) is a bit mindboggling to me. I am genuinely strugging to get my head around it.
I can see the arguments for adding more varied gameplay and features, and yes more things to do on the face of it is a good thing. But at the expense of improving or adding anything at all to the core experience? (well, not entirely fair, new planets, new planets just keep thinking about the new planets!) Okay I guess
Actually, nope don't understand it.
I really can't with this myopic view of the expansion as a whole... Let me try again: can you currently enter station interiors? Buildings? Derelicts? Well, Odyssey will lay foundations for that and ship interiors as well.
Of course as I mentioned previously, I am absolutely gobsmacked that they didn't start from the ship and EVA. It seems counter-intuitive on so many levels, that I suspect there were some technical reasons for that and it was pushed further, hopefully not too far.
But, from a software developer perspective they refactored their code allowing for production of what you actually want. And it really doesn't matter if it fails or not, the engine is ready for more. It is said (as hearsay) that half of the playerbase didn't own horizons. Which is mindbogglingly stupid for me, considering it was on sale countless of times already. It opens the game world in so many ways. For example I am completely unexcited when I see an ELW out there. What's the point? It's just a static planetary asset I can't do anything with. But I can land on a rocky airless world and prospect for materials. Which gives me different perspective and different gameplay loops and different experience.
See where I am going with this? The same thing can be said about Odyssey. For example I almost never did base assaults in a SRV because frankly it was silly and clunky for me... But I can see myself doing these kind of missions because they are more believable and "natural" way of doing it. But (hopefully) it's only one of the activities you actually can do in Odyssey. And having more gameplay loops won't hurt.
Will it be a flop? I don't think so, so we can disagree on that. I think the appeal of being able to exit a ship will be huge. The only way this will be a flop if they treat it as horizons, namely never fleshing out the placeholders they put in. I can only hope that ship interiors and EVA, and of course at least rudimentary VR support will follow shortly.
Last edited:
Exactly.
I can see that, but if I remember rightly (quite possibly not!) the walking on planets was to come before walking in ships/eva, or at least was separate in the rough list of future additions from the early days.
More importantly I think adding walking on planets and stations did not require a complete rewrite of the instancing, but being able to eva to another ship and board it/break in to it? Probably a much more complex change.
I'm very much looking forward to space EVA and boarding other ship for mission objectives, whether that's for combat, repair, retrieval or something else, I don't really mind that its not here yet, but I do expect it to come at some point.
I can also see boarding of generation ships for mission objectives being a thing too, it would be great to use the tools we have available on our ships to bypass the external security and open an airlock for us to EVA into and then explore and get what is needed from these generation ships, it would connect the current ship gameplay with the new on-foot gameplay in a really cool way.
But I am happy that they have started on the ship EVA somewhere. One place is as good as any other in my view, as long as it's done well.
Last edited:
I still do not plan to buy Odyssey any time soon (like in 2021), but who knows, if the Alpha actually releases on the 29th and they have more content that what they have shown so far (exploring, scavenging, etc) and a QoL improvement or two I might be swayed to buy it sooner than later.
Only time will tell.
Only time will tell.
PS: Normally I'd ask all of the live-as-a-sheep-die-as-a-sheep (sorry not sorry I misspelled ship ) to go and at least try Scam Citizen on a free week to at least grasp what we're talking about here. Luckily we're hopefully not too far from release, so you will get first-hand experiences from practically everywhere to the point of being swamped
PS PS: I like the formula of a "pilot in the 'verse", and it seems both CEOs (cROBBERts and DBOBE) share it - and that's fantastic, because it means I'm getting what I always wanted one way or another Now if you could do something about that "flatscreen in VR" thingy real soon, that would be sweet, thank you
) to go and at least try Scam Citizen on a free week to at least grasp what we're talking about here. Luckily we're hopefully not too far from release, so you will get first-hand experiences from practically everywhere to the point of being swamped PS PS: I like the formula of a "pilot in the 'verse", and it seems both CEOs (cROBBERts and DBOBE) share it - and that's fantastic, because it means I'm getting what I always wanted one way or another
Now if you could do something about that "flatscreen in VR" thingy real soon, that would be sweet, thank you - Status