This is the truth of it- until you do it you'll never know. The original PP was released with little testing, and you could say the last years have been its real beta.
Amazing player interactions outside of community goals
- Thread starter ItsOsprey
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This is the truth of it- until you do it you'll never know. The original PP was released with little testing, and you could say the last years have been its real beta.
FD created this game with three modes (you knew this when you bought it), they stated right from the start that all modes were equal and implemented powerplay in all modes, therefore engaging in powerplay in either solo or private group is not abusing the system as those people are using the system as it was designed. Now you could ague that it was designed wrong but saying that the people using a feature that's clearly working as intended can hardly be called abuse, you calling it that however can be called just that because you are making unfounded accusation towards a group of player that has just as much right to playing the game as you do.
As for the belief that players should be able to do anything in the game at any time, that belief might stem from the marketing blurb that states:
[h=1]Play your way[/h] Experience infinite freedom as you earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.
I could of course be wrong.
Now you PvPers chose to use the least effective way to engage in powerplay, if all you wanted was to win you'd be better off going the PvE route however you don't and regardless of your reasons you will now have to work harder to get things done.
As for the influence people in Solo and PG have; Sandro has clearly stated that a significant majority is playing in open so the effect the other two modes have on powerplay can't be that great unless of course an organized group decides to start an offensive in either Solo or PG and even then they could still be countered effectively from any mode by a larger group doing engaging in the same activities as the opposition.
Oh and if for some reason you think the PvE community is deliberately sabotaging PP from modes where you can't get to them, I don't think anyone cares enough about you to even bother.
Losing in powerplay? It's because:
1. You're using the LETA (Least Effective TActic)
2. You're outnumbered.
3. You outnumber the opposition but they have opted to go all in on PvE.
If you want to win; do what they do.
If you want to have fun; have fun
If you looking for easy targets; easy targets are NOT looking for you.
Blaming other players for playing the games as it was presented to them is not going to solve anything, if the powerplay community universally agreed that "hiding" in solo or private groups was unfair there would be no problem.
Random, unorganized players engaging in PP just for the rewards are not going to have a meaningful impact unless FD failed to add a decent level of inertia to the system in which cased they can hardly be blamed for what is essentially a design flaw.
Now I'm sure there are ways to solve the "powerplay modes" issue in a way that doesn't involve taking content away from certain players but it will require a more constructive attitude from both sides and who knows we might even end up with something that's way better than what we have now without alienation one group or an other. However claiming that you, and only you, are playing the game as it is intended is going to meet with resistance every time.
^ Nailed it.
In fact, I'm saving this as a bookmark so others can read it- IMO it should be a prime candidate as a STICKY thread right up at the top of the PowerPlay subforums...
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Powerplay is obviously endgame content for king admirals to play NPC roles and engage in full scale war for their favourite minibosses while their big bosses marry each other.
The OP's screenshot doesn't tell us much except there was an instance of 40 players.
How many of these players were doing trading runs in trading ships? Any non-NPC T9s involved?
I bet all the players were in powerful ships, highly engineered and configured for PvP combat.
If this bet is anywhere near the truth then all you have is a session of CQC in the main ED game.
I also bet that all these players had huge credit assets and by definition these same players will be experienced and skilled pilots.
And these players think that making Powerplay Open only will force, sorry, persuade other less experienced, less skilled and less equipped players to play PP in Open against them?
Yeah, right.
If PP Open only is instigated and does not work out as desired, what other game features will be in the cross-sights for the Open only idealists?
Some them are even now spouting of an Open only background simulation; effectively meaning an Open only Elite Dangerous.
How many of these players were doing trading runs in trading ships? Any non-NPC T9s involved?
I bet all the players were in powerful ships, highly engineered and configured for PvP combat.
If this bet is anywhere near the truth then all you have is a session of CQC in the main ED game.
I also bet that all these players had huge credit assets and by definition these same players will be experienced and skilled pilots.
And these players think that making Powerplay Open only will force, sorry, persuade other less experienced, less skilled and less equipped players to play PP in Open against them?
Yeah, right.
If PP Open only is instigated and does not work out as desired, what other game features will be in the cross-sights for the Open only idealists?
Some them are even now spouting of an Open only background simulation; effectively meaning an Open only Elite Dangerous.
By your logic every power should simply wing up in PG and turretboat farm merits? Then it would be a case of having the most turretboats.
I've seen multiple cycles how 5C fortify 20 systems, while expanding a damaging system and never be seen in the whole week, by multiple commanders geographically spread over the globe from several powers. You are right in that being outnumbered will result in being defeated; thats not the issue and small powers accept that fully. What they find depressing is that these commanders pledge to the power they want to bring down and simply wreck the experience for those 'proper' pledges using flaws in PP and EDs design.
Funny how there is no 'proper' way to play the game when defending murder-hobo's, but there is a 'proper' way to play the game when Power-Play pvp'ers are lacking targets.
Hint; if it's not against FD's TOS it's all ok.
Hint; if it's not against FD's TOS it's all ok.
For most people its simply being able to prevent / inhibit other rival commanders beyond outhauling them anonymously.
Right now you could remove Powerplay pledging and simply haul for a Power you like because pledging serves no purpose in Solo or PG.
Of course it does, it allows solo/pg players to support their preferred power and compete against other powers in a pve environment.
Which, when PowerPlay was introduced is exactly how it was presented.
When I first saw it, I just interpreted it as in-game political PvE fluff. It certainly didn't come across in any way as a "PvP centric" feature.
Of course, this doesn't fit within the "Blame PvE players!" narrative, so attempts are made to demonize those who are participating as "exploiters" rather than admit the fact that Frontier themselves actually presented it in that context to begin with.
Not really. If you took it away and instead totalled up your merits there would be no difference, just like BGS work. PP NPCS do very little now, so unless that drastically changed pledging has no real day to day consequence.
Politics? Where? Lore wise Powerplay is totally disconnected from the narrative. One of the major, major gripes Power groups have is that no matter what we do, it has no bearing on anything.
Powerplay is neither PvE or PvP- its a blend of both with the latter acting as a brake on the former (or should do) simply as NPCs and general tasks are not sufficient in Solo or PG modes.
Yes, Politics. Between "powers and factions", Federation, Empire, Alliance.
It's entirely connected to the "in-game narrative of lore" given the context of the BGS itself- and the nature of changing affairs for each system.
NPC factions are directly tied to everything in the game... regardless of the "mode" you play in.
Power play pvp'ers can pvp if they want to; it's not like it matters that it may not be the most effective tactic as powers don't collapse; so who cares if you have one or two systems less than the mainly pve faction?
So those who wish to pvp can use the mechanics for that and those who don't can avoid it, seems equitable to me.
So those who wish to pvp can use the mechanics for that and those who don't can avoid it, seems equitable to me.
Then your definition of politics differs from mine. Powerplay has Tier 1 characters that might as well not be connected with Powers at all.
"in-game narrative of lore" in ED is state change that is hardly ever reflected story wise, or at least PP wise as Powers do not equal superpowers.
sounds fun!
why not? it's called incentivisation. i'm not going to say it will work, i don't know, and it needs testing, but we humans are herd animals. create a pvp setting and it is very possible that it attracts people. the experience could actually bring people not interested in pvp to like it.
to a degree. people fiddling with router settings for game play reasons should be a minority. and it has already been assumed that making blocklists ineffective in pp would be a necessary part of this change.
oopp isn't aimed to stop 5c. it was included in a proposal with several measures, some specifically addressing it.
oopp would indeed change the landscape forcing fifth columnists into visible open space (unless, of course, they tune their routers to block anybody else). if not avoiding it, it would just generate more 'emergent' gameplay.
anyhow who said 5c should be avoided? 5c exists in any group conflict, be it in games or irl, it's part of the deal. one issue is shameless 5c action from the impunity of parallel universeses (see above). this should be addressed not because 5c is inherently bad, but because it's stupid gameplay. other 5c issues (eg., voting) were proposed to be mitigated differently. it's not about eradicating 5c, that will never happen. it's about giving people reasonable ways to deal with it.
yeah, well, beliefs ...
probably not!
mmm, not sure if beliefs or propaganda?
true, but it's a step in the right direction if we ever want to get rid of that plague.
This is the sticking point for many- in a feature about explicit territorial gains and losses its frustrating having a free pass to haul or shoot as much as you like without any potential rivals being able to stop you.
Like it or not, the potential hazards in Solo are much less than in Open, being in Solo and PG allows for exploits and game breaking behaviour to go potentially unchecked.
Yet, "might as well not be" isn't the case though, is it? Each one is clearly a representative of a "power"- and currently a single power alone. (which future events with Ailing Duval will be quite fascinating to watch, given the marriage and all that)
Again- it's exactly how I personally interpreted PowerPlay as it was presented in the game- not "recent changes in narrative" that Sandro has presented as a focus for altering PowerPlay mechanics, etc. My point is that interpretation isn't solely based on one person's perspective- and telling players that they're "exploiting" because they're playing the game the way it was originally presented is simply incorrect. Does it differ from how you play? Indeed! Do you wish it were different? I'm quite sure you do!
Now... the "botting" and other things being discussed that were not originally presented in context of gameplay are a wholly different matter- and I'm inclined to agree that no matter what side of the "fence" people swing on it should be completely disallowed.
It was sold as 'play your way' by D.Braben with a mode system at launch, those wishing to change this are being unfair to those who bought it for this reason.