An elegant suggestion to Transferring money & ships between players

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

First off, lets address the elephant in the room and the very thing frontier doesn't want happening. which are Gold Bots/Gold sellers/Gold scammers basically any "Service" that allows you to buy in-game currency.
While not letting actual in-game credit transfers take place is a good way to deter bots I think it might be a little too extreme.

There are methods other games incorporate to make it less attractive for gold sellers to attack their games which restricting the new players in their ability to trade.
This has proven to be an effective method in other games to deter gold sellers significantly as it makes it difficult for them to profit off a game with such restrictions on new accounts.

I propose that frontier open up credit and ship transfers in the game but heavily restrict them in the early game based on pilot rank tiers.
In this case, the player must progress in at least 1 of the 3 pilots rank types to open up higher levels of trade starting from a very restricted amount.
This restriction will dictate how much value a player can send or receive. meaning that an elite player is limited by the amount of credits they can send a new player.
This should be dictated in a 24 hour period as well, until at least the 5th tier pilots ranks

Example:

Pilot's Tier 1: Harmless / Penniless / Aimless : Maximum trade value 100,000 Credits (the player can not send or receive any ship or credits greater than this value with in a 24 hour period)
Pilot's Tier 2: Mostly Harmless / Mostly Penniless / Mostly Aimless : Maximum trade value 500,000 credits. (the player may recive this value of credits or a viper MK4 or other ship that costs within this value within a 24 hour period)
Pilot's Tier 3: Novice/ Peddler / Scout : Maximum Trade Value 1,000,000 Credits (24 hour period restriction trade is still in place)
Pilot's Tier 4: Competent / Dealer / Surveyor : Maximum Trade Value 5,000,000 Credits (24 hour period trade restriction is still in place)
Pilot's Tier 5: Expert / Merchant / Trailblazer : Maximum Trade Value 10,000,000 Credits (1 hour period trade restriction)
Pilot's Tier 6: Master / Broker / Pathfinder : Maximum Trade Value 50,000,000 Credits (1 hour period Trade restriction)
Pilot's Tier 7: Dangerous / Entrepreneur / Ranger : (No Trade Restriction)
Pilot's Tier 8: Deadly / Tycoon / Pioneer : (No Trade Restriction)
Pilot's Tier 9: Elite : (No Trade Restriction)

Also it should probably be noted that frontier may not want people trading power-play and unlockable modules so that might be a player-wide restriction they would want to implement in terms of trading vessels.

might need to be worked on a bit but I think this is a pretty good start.
What do you guys think. should frontier impliment this or should we stick with cargo trading?

 

[Misty_Dark]

What would be the use case for this?


Why give away a Viper Mk IV? some light bounty hunting in a Resource extraction site should pretty fast let your new friend earn enough cash to buy that ship...

A slightly longer thing would be todo the same in multicrew.


And the we have all the wing missions.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

What would be the use case for this?


Why give away a Viper Mk IV? some light bounty hunting in a Resource extraction site should pretty fast let your new friend earn enough cash to buy that ship...

A slightly longer thing would be todo the same in multicrew.


And the we have all the wing missions.

the viper mk IV was just a refrence as it is the most expensive stock vessel withing 500,000 credits. so you could trade any ship as long as its total value did not exceed 500,000 credits.

as for the use case. perhaps if lets say one player wasnt satisfied with their viper and they wanted to trade it for someone's adder.

Some new players may just want to do things on their own especialy a pair of friends that want to figure it out for themselves.

Alternatively some of us elite players just enjoy helping newbies out ;P Sometimes a person just needs a leg-up.

But yes you are correct about missions accumulating cash fast. this is all just a thought expiriment honestly, since i know frontier doesnt want gold bots invading their game period. the numbers could be tweaked however.

 

[JetsonRING]

Any solution that requires several paragraphs to explain is not "elegant" and the definition of "a leg up" is "an advantage over others".

Want to offer someone a helping hand? Let them wing up with you and then they can stay out of the way while you do all the work and take all the risks. They get to collect wing-mission profits and you get the satisfaction of knowing you helped someone out.

This method would make it difficult for any CMDR to transfer credits to his or her other account(s).

 

[Lestat]

I still have to say NO. It too easy.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

No. Now get back to work.

I dont need to "work" 7 billion assets. This is a thought expirement of how trade between players might work without making it attractive to gold bots.

I still have to say NO. It too easy.

Fair enough

 

[Lestat]

I dont need to "work" 7 billion assets. This is a thought expirement of how trade between players might work without making it attractive to gold bots.

Thing is we already have a way to trade good credits. You wing up to find a location and drop cargo trade then go back to the station and sell it.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Thing is we already have a way to trade good credits. You wing up to find a location and drop cargo trade then go back to the station and sell it.

I know, limpets, 20t per burst.
But if you are a new player that can be tedious and you probably just want to get up and go.
And to some people this method of trade can be lengthy.

I dont have a problem doing the cargo method however.

 

[Lestat]

I know, limpets, 20t per burst.
But if you are a new player that can be tedious and you probably just want to get up and go.
And to some people this method of trade can be lengthy.

I dont have a problem doing the cargo method however.

And that how it should be. Trading Credit should not be easy.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

And that how it should be. Trading Credit should not be easy.

So you feel as though it would still be too attractive to gold bots even if the maximum a new player can receive in direct trade is 100,000 cr even if it is from a player with a higher pilot rank?
Tbh i was just curious if people would feel differently if there were restrictions implemented if directed player trade was introduced and so far that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Lestat]

So you feel as though it would still be too attractive to gold bots even if the maximum a new player can receive in direct trade is 100,000 cr even if it is from a player with a higher pilot rank?
Tbh i was just curious if people would feel differently if there were restrictions implemented if directed player trade was introduced and so far that doesn't appear to be the case.

It would be more attractive. Let take a look. gold Buyer has a Sidewinder want a bigger ship. Gold seller going ok this can be done really easy.

Gold seller explains to the Gold buyer I going to give you 100,000 credits. Go to a set system and buy a Hauler. Outfit it with no shield and max Cargo Racks. So Azmuth Divarchchron. You open the floodgates to Gold sellers. Now The Gold seller gave him 100,000 Credits and when the gold buyer buys the Hurler with a collector The gold seller can drop 20 tons of Gold total of 180,000 credits. That a total of 280,000 credits. A few more trips the Gold buyer can buy a Cobra.

Thank but No thank Azmuth Divarchchron.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

It would be more attractive. Let take a look. gold Buyer has a Sidewinder want a bigger ship. Gold seller going ok this can be done really easy.

Gold seller explains to the Gold buyer I going to give you 100,000 credits. Go to a set system and buy a Hauler. Outfit it with no shield and max Cargo Racks. So Azmuth Divarchchron. You open the floodgates to Gold sellers. Now The Gold seller gave him 100,000 Credits and when the gold buyer buys the Hurler with a collector The gold seller can drop 20 tons of Gold total of 180,000 credits. That a total of 280,000 credits. A few more trips the Gold buyer can buy a Cobra.

Thank but No thank Azmuth Divarchchron.

Fair enough

 

[Havvk]

It's my money, I should be allowed to do whatever I please with it. I support credit trading

 

[vindicator jones]

Unfortunately, I have to say no to in game trading. And not just because of gold mining, but because its in the first tentative steps in Elite Dangerous do you learn the basic skills. Loses are minimized as everything is cheap, and death is just a mild annoyance.. Working towards your first viper/cobra/vulture and then FDL or Krait feels like a massive achievement.. I remember working hard to get from my vulture to my first FDL, and worrying that I would not be able to afford the class 4 PA with it.. I remember how much that Vulture taught me about combat, ship tactics, thruster control and general flying.

If I had someone just give me money, I would have thought AWESOME.. I can get whatever I want now.. but I would have missed those steps.. I would have jumped straight into an FDL and have no idea how to fly it properly.. I would then have brought an Anaconda, and discovered I cant fly that properly either, blame the game and moved on.

Just like we often see here in the forums when new commanders have made huge amounts of money in short periods of time due to the latest gold rush, find themselves in an Anaconda in a few weeks, then complaining that it sucks, or the AI is too hard, or the game is too hard... They have missed out on those formative steps, to build their skills and develop their technique.

The simple fact is this.. If I had not spent months working from my Vulture to my first FDL, its very doubtful I would have created a youtube channel. What I learned during that period of earning credits through bounty hunting is the basis of what I do now.

Yes, its more convenient to be able to share our credits with new commanders, but really.. are we doing them a favor by doing so? As much as they may want those credits, I think in the long term, we are actually hurting their appreciation of the game through missing out on the core experience of progression and learning.

But hey, thats just me.

 

[Havvk]

-snip-

When I was new, I was done a favor when somebody in a cargo fit conda was buying tonnes of palladium and dumping it all out just outside the station, when I was still struggling for over 3 months in my sidey, without that conda, I'd have never gotten into a hauler and steamrolled into actual progress. Without that conda, I would never have played this game again. But instead, I'm still playing and I actually cared to learn because I wasn't stuck in the crappiest ship I ever laid eyes on anymore. You get what I mean?


No, don't let players just throw all their billions at one player, but cmon. A small loan of a million dollars credits can't hurt anybody.

 

[vindicator jones]

When I was new, I was done a favor when somebody in a cargo fit conda was buying tonnes of palladium when I was still struggling for over 3 months in my sidey, without that conda, I'd have never gotten into a hauler and steamrolled into actual progress. Without that conda, I would never have played this game again. But instead, I'm still playing and I actually cared to learn because I wasn't stuck in the crappiest ship I ever laid eyes on anymore. You get what I mean?


No, don't let players just throw all their billions at one player, but cmon. A small loan of a million dollars credits can't hurt anybody.

3 Months in a Sidewinder???????????

You shouldnt be having that much trouble going from sidey to hauler... Most people are out of their sidewinder within a few days.

 

[Havvk]

3 Months in a Sidewinder???????????

You shouldnt be having that much trouble going from sidey to hauler... Most people are out of their sidewinder within a few days.

Well this was long before Horizons. Point is, I'm still here thanks to that helping hand. Now only if there was a better way to do that for players so you don't spend 10 hours trogging through others fighting each other over scraps of commodities, that'd be greeaaaat.

After I got into that Hauler, things were so much easier that it was almost a cakewalk until I finally got into a Vulture a week later; during which time I then decided that I can actually learn something other than how long can I last before a harmless cobra NPC can insta vaporize me because I'm carrying 1 ton of biowaste somehow.

 

[Chaparral]

Player to player trading is always going to be sketchy.

An actual supply and demand market with player trading and speculation would be great. Not going to happen though.

 

[Misty_Dark]

When I was new, I was done a favor when somebody in a cargo fit conda was buying tonnes of palladium and dumping it all out just outside the station, when I was still struggling for over 3 months in my sidey, without that conda, I'd have never gotten into a hauler and steamrolled into actual progress. Without that conda, I would never have played this game again. But instead, I'm still playing and I actually cared to learn because I wasn't stuck in the crappiest ship I ever laid eyes on anymore. You get what I mean?


No, don't let players just throw all their billions at one player, but cmon. A small loan of a million dollars credits can't hurt anybody.

Nowdays, that is still an option, and the best commodity todo this with is Meta Alloys, a fun trip down to Maia.
But we have got more options to help out, that is not direct transfer of credits. most notably are the wing missions, any completed shared wingmission would be more than enough to put you in a bigger ship, as these should most of the time would more than 1,5 million for combat, or a 10+ million for source and return, or 5+ million for move from A to B.

Difficulty level varies ofcourse
* Wing Combat mission can be a really hard challenge for players not dong combat.
* Source and Return Wing missions, is most the most lucrative, often fairly easy to complete, the biggest pitfall is what to source and how far away that is. Check before accepting.
* Transport cargo from A to B wing missions are the easiest, just go back and forth between two stations until everything is moved. Often you are tasked to somewhere around 5000-6000T of cargo. So here we assume the friend has a trade Type 9, with shields.That is 752 Cargo (the size 2 slot can be used for Guardian FSD Booster), such a ship cost just over 200 million, and the only engineering that is most important is the FSD for increased range, the rest is optional, and will take 7-8 trips complete this.

Then we have standard bounty hunting, friend does all the heavy lifting, and the "newbie" just tries to learn how it works, and landing a few shots here and there. and you share the profits. NPCs will most of the time only shoot at the ship doing the most damage. Now bounties are no longer split among the wing, and each get the full bounty, ie, Kill Elite Anaconda for 400 000credits, now both gets 400 000 credits, old version, this was split, so a wing of 2 you got 200 000 credits each.

You also now have multicrew, that also will you multicrew friend a pay of your total earnings, this is based on combat rank, and the difference between your combat and your friends combat rank, and worst case scenario is you are Elite combat and friend is Harmless, but as your friend gain combat the pay increases.




So now we have alot more options than we used to, and do not forget, Missions pays ALOT more now than they used back in the day... So even simple data transfer missions is good pay for any new player in a stock sidewinder.



So what would the suggested plain transfer of credits bring to the game? And then how does this justify all the extra work and "limitation" that we need to add to curb gold sellers and the like.

 

[Havvk]

-snip-

I worked hard for my credits, but yet I'm still not allowed to just give it away directly.


I guess hard work alone is not justification to be unwillingly stingy due to lack of QoL