An idea that could fix logging?

[besieger]

Pedantic comments don't change the fact that when peeps use the phrase PvP, it means combat between players. Go on with your word-dance. I won't change your mind, and you likely won;t change anyone else's mind either.

You used to cheat? So, why should anyone trust your word? That means you have cheated while engaging in a form of entertainment. I don't know where that comes from. To come in public and pontificate about cheating, when you are an admitted cheater is, well... You'll create a word for that too, how about we use the word 'Emergent' for now?

P.S. In a different thread, I mentioned that the cheaters had paid their dues, and the matter should be dropped. Dropped until one of these cheaters comes to the interweb to decry cheating. The need for 'back rubs' and 'group therapy' over CL'ing is just plain getting embarrassing.

I take on issue with my creation and use of cheats in past games it helped me with my studies, Its not my word that needs to be trusted.. this is why I use facts and evidence as presented, you are one of the only people in this thread claiming I am using some kind of "word-dance", I gave you the actual defined meaning on a technical level of the word PVP. this is fact. why you claim otherwise is beyond me.

Again though I would prefer if you didn't focus on me and focus on the issue at hand in this thread.

 

[Crank Larson]

Its not my word that needs to be trusted.. this is why I use facts and evidence as presented

I agree with you here. It does seem that many of the arguments are against you rather than what you are stating. However, you haven't helped yourself in several posts by misusing facts...

 

[Mohrgan]

I take on issue with my creation and use of cheats in past games it helped me with my studies, Its not my word that needs to be trusted.. this is why I use facts and evidence as presented, you are one of the only people in this thread claiming I am using some kind of "word-dance", I gave you the actual defined meaning on a technical level of the word PVP. this is fact. why you claim otherwise is beyond me.

Again though I would prefer if you didn't focus on me and focus on the issue at hand in this thread.

No, we certainly don;t need to trust your words. That is plainly obvious.

I focused on you, only in one paragraph, responding to you admitting your cheating. If you bring the topic up, I can make a polite response, as I did.

 

[jasonbarron]

No, we certainly don;t need to trust your words. That is plainly obvious.

I focused on you, only in one paragraph, responding to you admitting your cheating. If you bring the topic up, I can make a polite response, as I did.

Harry has made some solid points, and I'll be candid: you're mostly relying on trying to pick him apart on a personal and reputational level to refute the good points he is indeed making on this thread. Trust me, you're well documented as not valuing his opinion because of perceived transgressions--now just stick to the topic

 

[Mohrgan]

Harry has made some solid points, and I'll be candid: you're mostly relying on trying to pick him apart on a personal and reputational level to refute the good points he is indeed making on this thread. Trust me, you're well documented as not valuing his opinion because of perceived transgressions--now just stick to the topic

Combat Logging is a deader horse than the Solo/Private/Open topic. The only point the OP made was it would be satisfying to a portion of the community, if CL'ers got a cheeky message from FD, and how that would go a long way in letting 'cheaters' know they are being watched. How is that a solid point?

I will address the 'point' as I see fit. Moralizing from a cheater is not something I have to put up with. I will, with polite discourse, pursue any line of reasoning I can defend. I can totally defend the position: "Why take an admitted cheaters word for anything?"

 

[jasonbarron]

Combat Logging is a deader horse than the Solo/Private/Open topic. The only point the OP made was it would be satisfying to a portion of the community, if CL'ers got a cheeky message from FD, and how that would go a long way in letting 'cheaters' know they are being watched. How is that a solid point?

I will address the 'point' as I see fit. Moralizing from a cheater is not something I have to put up with. I will, with polite discourse, pursue any line of reasoning I can defend. I can totally defend the position: "Why take an admitted cheaters word for anything?"

Clogging is not a dead deal. There just are not enough people complaining about it. Just because Fdev hasn't displayed the intestinal fortitude to do something about doesn't mean that it isn't A-cheating and B-Actionable if someone pulled their head out of their backside and started doing something about it.

That is true no matter where the news comes from.


But by all means, keep sniping away at Harry's ankles.

 

[Mohrgan]

Clogging is not a dead deal. There just are not enough people complaining about it. Just because Fdev hasn't displayed the intestinal fortitude to do something about doesn't mean that it isn't A-cheating and B-Actionable if someone pulled their head out of their backside and started doing something about it.

That is true no matter where the news comes from.


But by all means, keep sniping away at Harry's ankles.

Not enough players care about the issue to come out and speak about it. That must take a toll on how FD sees the issue. Someone Logs, and there has to be a Group Therapy session on the Forums for the HoBro's to get that warm and fuzzy feeling back as their domination of the skies is brought into question. A simple count of threads would certainly point out that there are way more, especially in the last year, 'I got Logged on" threads than "I got ganked" threads.

There is absolutely no reason to insist that PvP issues, proper use PvP here, should dominate the rules of the game. Booster stacking, Gimbal Arc, FdL nerf, all of these PvP focused changes were dismissed. That's a good thing. And, FD recognize this.

You will never find a post of mine that condones true combat logging. You will never see an in-game action from me that is a cheat. Harry's ankles are not my issue, his moralizing is. Defending him is only a symptom of the 'Us V Them' thing that goes on around here. What compels you to defend besieger, and them condemn a lowly CL'er? Your kind of cheating is ok, but Their kind of cheating isn't? I think poor old put upon besieger can and should defend himself.

P.S. It is obvious that FD take the issue of Combat Logging as seriously as they take the issue of Seal Clubbing. In that the upcoming Notoriety system will track both topics.

 

[-JAFO-]

Losing Connection in the game is NOT I repeat NOT a Bug. Its a Feature!

 

[besieger]

Not enough players care about the issue to come out and speak about it. That must take a toll on how FD sees the issue. Someone Logs, and there has to be a Group Therapy session on the Forums for the HoBro's to get that warm and fuzzy feeling back as their domination of the skies is brought into question. A simple count of threads would certainly point out that there are way more, especially in the last year, 'I got Logged on" threads than "I got ganked" threads.

There is absolutely no reason to insist that PvP issues, proper use PvP here, should dominate the rules of the game. Booster stacking, Gimbal Arc, FdL nerf, all of these PvP focused changes were dismissed. That's a good thing. And, FD recognize this.

You will never find a post of mine that condones true combat logging. You will never see an in-game action from me that is a cheat. Harry's ankles are not my issue, his moralizing is. Defending him is only a symptom of the 'Us V Them' thing that goes on around here. What compels you to defend besieger, and them condemn a lowly CL'er? Your kind of cheating is ok, but Their kind of cheating isn't? I think poor old put upon besieger can and should defend himself.

Here is a break down from the release of the game of how combat loggers have affected the game and will continue too, again you also attack me instead of my points though to be fair my points are grounded in facts so attacking them is pointless.

- Release, Not a logger in sight.
- 3 months after release, Loggers and hackers show up, Loggers name and shamed into not doing it again(worked quite well), hacks are patched. happy days
- 5 months after release, More loggers show up, name and shame banned.
- 8 months after release, Combat logs are daily now, groups are complaining and are starting to fall apart
- 12 months after release, Combat logs are daily, some groups are now gone or merged
- Current Day, Combat logs are daily and considered normal, most groups are gone or merged

Some backstory on two groups

- SDC, a known group of players commonly gank anything that moves, this is some background even some of SDC don't know about, SDC was formed by 2 guys who love PVP specifically killing CODE members, this grew into a larger group(about 6 CMDRs) others where picked up due to their skill in PVP, later on at about 8 or 10 CMDRs I was was picked up. this is also oddly enough where I almost met my end at the hands of Fdev perma banning me. though later on I got it over turned due to support not know how their own game worked(odd right?!).

All but the original two CMDRs came from other groups that where abandoned, I would list each and everyone with their reason for joining SDC since they are largely the same, but naming CMDRs is not allowed. the reason SDC is what it is today is because of combat loggers.

I myself joined SDC when the group I was part of fell apart due to combat logging.

Much of CODE joined SDC when combat logging got to the point where it was just the norm.

- CODE, A well known pirate group, now dead or at least mostly dead all because of combat loggers.

Players of this game get fed-up and turn to ganking others, the community of this game and pretend its all the issue of those ganking but in reality the very reason players like us turn to this type of game play is simply because we can get no other game play. I would love to be a real bounty hunter or pirate on the side, no chance with the current state of the game.

 

[Mohrgan]

Here is a break down from the release of the game of how combat loggers have affected the game and will continue too, again you also attack me instead of my points though to be fair my points are grounded in facts so attacking them is pointless.

- SDC, a known group of players commonly gank anything that moves, this is some background even some of SDC don't know about, SDC was formed by 2 guys who love PVP specifically killing CODE members, this grew into a larger group(about 6 CMDRs) others where picked up due to their skill in PVP, later on at about 8 or 10 CMDRs I was was picked up. this is also oddly enough where I almost met my end at the hands of Fdev perma banning me. though later on I got it over turned due to support not know how their own game worked(odd right?!).

All but the original two CMDRs came from other groups that where abandoned, I would list each and everyone with their reason for joining SDC since they are largely the same, but naming CMDRs is not allowed. the reason SDC is what it is today is because of combat loggers.

I myself joined SDC when the group I was part of fell apart due to combat logging.

Much of CODE joined SDC when combat logging got to the point where it was just the norm.

- CODE, A well known pirate group, now dead or at least mostly dead all because of combat loggers.

Players of this game get fed-up and turn to ganking others, the community of this game and pretend its all the issue of those ganking but in reality the very reason players like us turn to this type of game play is simply because we can get no other game play. I would love to be a real bounty hunter or pirate on the side, no chance with the current state of the game.

So, your history, your personal history, with Combat Logging is supposed to show some kind of over all affect on the game? Not.

SDC, in your post, is introduced as a group of gankers. Should I bother to read on? Ganks Squads are just as much 'out of game' elements as the Menu Exit. Using the game to hunt players, is not the same as hunting players while playing. Two, smallish player groups, are disrupted by Combat Logging, and that indicates some in game calamity, rather than a few self important players that want their issue handled now, and let the rest of us wait, while they find away to keep your targets under your sites for you?

I'm sorry, but your sob story does not move me. It seems to me that if some gankers were dissuaded from playing E|D because of CL'ers, things could be worse.

 

[besieger]

So, your history with Combat Logging is supposed to show some kind of over all affect? Not. SDC, in your post, is introduced as a group of gankers. Should I bother to read on? Ganks Squads are just as much 'out of game' elements as the Menu Exit. Using the game to hunt players, is not the same as hunting players while playing. Two, smallish player groups, are disrupted by Combat Logging, and that indicates some in game calamity, rather than a few self important players that want their issue handled now, and let the rest of us wait, while they find away to keep your targets under your sites for you?

I'm sorry, but your sob story does not move me. It seems to me that if some gankers were dissuaded from playing E|D because of CL'ers, things could be worse.

You clearly did not understand what you read or lack of, these groups became gank groups or more correctly CODE members left to join gank groups because of combat logging, SDC started life as a pure PVP vs PVP group attacking pirates and wanted players etc, more along the lines of bounty hunters/PVPers.

The CODE is affected due to their play style being one of a pirate, your victim needs to stay and drop cargo else there is no pirating, CODE are not a gank group. other groups are gone to due to the same issue. just a little FYI the CODE where on of the largest player groups in the game.

 

[Cosmos]

Combat Logging is a deader horse than the Solo/Private/Open topic. The only point the OP made was it would be satisfying to a portion of the community, if CL'ers got a cheeky message from FD, and how that would go a long way in letting 'cheaters' know they are being watched. How is that a solid point?

I will address the 'point' as I see fit. Moralizing from a cheater is not something I have to put up with. I will, with polite discourse, pursue any line of reasoning I can defend. I can totally defend the position: "Why take an admitted cheaters word for anything?"

I don't cheat, never have, and feel exactly the same way Harry does about combat logging. Its not tolerated in other games and for good reason. Frontier has a poor record when it comes to addressing cheating and exploiting, whether it be credit exploit or combat logging, it negatively affects the integrity and experience of the game.

 

[Mohrgan]

You clearly did not understand what you read or lack of, these groups became gank groups or more correctly CODE members left to join gank groups because of combat logging, SDC started life as a pure PVP vs PVP group attacking pirates and wanted players etc, more along the lines of bounty hunters/PVPers.

The CODE is affected due to their play style being one of a pirate, your victim needs to stay and drop cargo else there is no pirating, CODE are not a gank group. other groups are gone to due to the same issue. just a little FYI the CODE where on of the largest player groups in the game.

Childish decisions to 'take it out on the community' is not a defense. It's ridiculous. Just the kind of justification that brings players to cheat in a video game. That includes Modifications, Hacks, and CLing.

If you can't trust the PvP community to stick around and have a fight, why should those not interested in PvP do so? If pirates call what they do PvP, why should they log on BH's? Clean Traders don't combat log on RP BH's. Clearly, logging, form what you say here, is a PvP problem caused by those who seek PvP, not the guy running away in a T-9.

What the Code were is not the issue, what those players allowed themselves to become is the more relevant topic.

 

[besieger]

Childish decisions to 'take it out on the community' is not a defense. It's ridiculous. Just the kind of justification that brings players to cheat in a video game. That includes Modifications, Hacks, and CLing.

If you can't trust the PvP community to stick around and have a fight, why should those not interested in PvP do so? If pirates call what they do PvP, why should they log on BH's? Clean Traders don't combat log on RP BH's. Clearly, logging, form what you say here, is a PvP problem caused by those who seek PvP, not the guy running away in a T-9.

What the Code were is not the issue, what those players allowed themselves to become is the more relevant topic.

Again you attack me... when will you learn?! there is nothing childish about players murdering others with or without reason, its perfectly valid game play. you can easily hunt them down and kill them, I even advertise my location all the time for others to come find me, I don't combat log and have yet to be killed by bounty hunters. there is not justification to combat log in any game at all, if you need to leave that urgently then and this putting it politely, **** the game and go deal with your IRL stuff.

 

[Mohrgan]

I don't cheat, never have, and feel exactly the same way Harry does about combat logging. Its not tolerated in other games and for good reason. Frontier has a poor record when it comes to addressing cheating and exploiting, whether it be credit exploit or combat logging, it negatively affects the integrity and experience of the game.

It's hard to hold FD accountable for the views and opinions that disagree with their decisions. What you decide is an Exploit, or deserves punishment, has no bearing on what is an Exploit, or an actionable offense. That's a big part of the problem. Holier-that-thou types that make judgements that aren't reflected by in game conditions.

Harry is being defended here, while he is an admitted cheater. While the nameless accused CL'er is roundly vilified. The very definition of a double standard. This is happening because there is an agenda, in totality, that must be defended. Past the point of common sense.

 

[besieger]

It's hard to hold FD accountable for the views and opinions that disagree with their decisions. What you decide is an Exploit, or deserves punishment, has no bearing on what is an Exploit, or an actionable offense. That's a big part of the problem. Holier-that-thou types that make judgements that aren't reflected by in game conditions.

Harry is being defended here, while he is an admitted cheater. While the nameless accused CL'er is roundly vilified. The very definition of a double standard. This is happening because there is an agenda, in totality, that must be defended. Past the point of common sense.

Double standard, no given I am the one who reported multiple exploits and even reported the engineers exploit to frontier directly. I am very much intrested in playing a game that does not suffer from exploits or cheap cheats, such as robigo and quince.

While I may not like Quince and Robigo I use them, and would be willing to have frontier remove all the exploited credits if it meant everyone was punished for these exploits.

 

[Mohrgan]

Again you attack me... when will you learn?! there is nothing childish about players murdering others with or without reason, its perfectly valid game play. you can easily hunt them down and kill them, I even advertise my location all the time for others to come find me, I don't combat log and have yet to be killed by bounty hunters. there is not justification to combat log in any game at all, if you need to leave that urgently then and this putting it politely, **** the game and go deal with your IRL stuff.

The post you quoted never mentions you. I addressed only the post that I quoted. You are looking for ghosts in an attempt to dismiss me. It's not going to work.

Your opinion of Combat Logging has many similarities to mine. But, I can find other avenues to express my views, without resorting to Space Tantrums.

 

[Hedyn Brand]

I can't find the images referenced in the OP. The links both still go to "undefined.jpg", which isn't helping me with context.

 

[Cosmos]

On topic, analysing trends to ... guess, when it comes down to it ... whether a particular player has been disconnecting "suspiciously" basically is what the crime and punishment / karma system Sandro has been talking about actually is. The sanctions won't be a fullscreen message "jokingly" accusing you of cheating but they will be a scaled response to data collection over time.

We will have to see how it works. It may be the only solution considering the networking but my objection over it being put in with the karma system is that combat logging is cheating, destroying other peoples ships is not.

 

[Mohrgan]

Double standard, no given I am the one who reported multiple exploits and even reported the engineers exploit to frontier directly.

It is hard to take what you say as believable. There is a trust issue here.

The double standard is with others defending you moralizing over others cheating, while.... Well, I'm not sure of the facts, but you did admit to cheating, so I'll leave this there.