PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

[Han_Zen]

There is no excuse for combat logging.
There are plenty of alternatives for those that want to avoid death.

First of all, you can chose a different mode than open.
If you chose to play in open, you can make your ship fast or strong or both, without a huge effort. It’s not like a PvP build is required to hi-wake.

If you refuse to play an alternative mode and refuse to prep your ship for ‘the brave sir Robin’, you realy have lost the right to complain if you die.

People know this. They clog either because it’s more convenient than hi-wake(no extra travel time) or because they want to annoy the oppposing player.

It’s either lazyness or pure griefing.

 

[Devari]

If what you state above is true, that the game itself is bugged, unstable, and causes frequent disconnects across the board, how is it then possible that some players do not experience this even if they play on a daily basis.

I'm going to stop you right there because you clearly don't understand what a game bug is. It is unintended behavior and only occurs under circumstances where the game is not working properly. Those circumstances are not properly understood by the devs in many cases and the steps needed to reproduce them are often unknown even when a bug is reported many times and is very well documented.

Everything else you've typed is based on the idea that it's just a "connection issue" when I'm clearly referring to various bugs that cause the game to crash. I'm not only referring to the frequent D/C that happen in multicrew or wings but those are also a frequent cause of problems for players. I'm referring to everything that would be resemble "combat logging" which includes game crashes, bugs requiring a task kill and D/Cs.

If the game itself was truly bugged to the extent you perpetuate, then it would surely affect all players, not just a subset.

That statement makes zero sense. First, players use a wide variety of hardware and software setups which causes considerable variability. Second, the bugs in question may only occur under specific circumstances that are not properly understood by the devs and may relate to factors that the devs can't even properly explain until the bug is finally fixed (assuming that ever occurs).

Unless you want to explain why the game sometimes spawns an Orca on my landing pad that clips through my ship (and continues to be visible in the outfitting screen) and other times doesn't do this? Or why any other bug might happen at certain times but not others? Expecting game bugs to happen consistently to "all players" tells me you don't understand what a game bug is.

PS: And please refrain from talking about raining skimmers etc. The relevance here is centered around disconnects, as that's the only issue that affects the ability to detect deliberate taskkilling.

I never limited my discussion to "disconnects" as you like to put it. In fact most of the issues I described involved game bugs causing a crash that required a task kill to exit the game. Those are all extremely relevant for detecting combat logging vs. the process crashing or needing to be task killed due to a game bug. If someone is telling me how "stable" the game is for them yet hasn't encountered a well-documented game bug that was reported numerous times that tells me that their experiences in the game are quite limited in that area.

 

[Sole Hunter]

Well said

People do like to derail topics such as this - we can all guess why - and it is depressing that despite such blatant evidence the account in question didn't so much as get an email saying "hey you really need to look at your possible connection issues because people think you are cheating" It seems the devs are only interested in stopping cheating if it's performed by "undesirable pvp players"

They've basically greenlit cheating by everyone else!

Just like the 2.4 beta, Sandro was warned the "tweaks" to the C&P system had a huge loophole for combat loggers who log v NPCs, yet he went ahead with it anyway!

Quite simply I don't think they care. At all. They'd rather shovel us some new skins!

It's quite common on these forums, lots of people in this thread have displayed their true character. They think it's okay to cheat against ''SDC'' because they hold some sort of personal grudge against the group vision.

Their vision is far more detrimental than SDC playstyle to the game.

Under no circumstance cheating or hacking should be endorsed. These people are the worst kind of player in an online game.

 

[Stigbob]

There is no excuse for combat logging.
There are plenty of alternatives for those that want to avoid death.

First of all, you can chose a different mode than open.
If you chose to play in open, you can make your ship fast or strong or both, without a huge effort. It’s not like a PvP build is required to hi-wake.

If you refuse to play an alternative mode and refuse to prep your ship for ‘the brave sir Robin’, you realy have lost the right to complain if you die.

People know this. They clog either because it’s more convenient than hi-wake(no extra travel time) or because they want to annoy the oppposing player.

It’s either lazyness or pure griefing.

Rubbish ship builds are usually over heavy on cargo/jumprange for more efficient money grubbing, clogging for rebuy evasion is exactly the same. I'd say it's love of filthy space-cash rather than laziness, and griefing as you say.

 

[Han_Zen]

Rubbish ship builds are usually over heavy on cargo/jumprange for more efficient money grubbing, clogging for rebuy evasion is exactly the same. I'd say it's love of filthy space-cash rather than laziness, and griefing as you say.

That is lazyness. If you can’t be bothered to go one extra trip to make up for the cargo lost to a shield, you really need to learn where the Solo button is.

 

[Stigbob]

That is lazyness. If you can’t be bothered to go one extra trip to make up for the cargo lost to a shield, you really need to learn where the Solo button is.

I'm not sure. My trade conda is just my war conda with the HRP's and sometimes the SLF swapped for cargobays, nothing else altered due primarily to my laziness. I usually make more on pirates along the way than the cargo.

 

[Han_Zen]

I'm not sure. My trade conda is just my war conda with the HRP's and sometimes the SLF swapped for cargobays, nothing else altered due primarily to my laziness. I usually make more on pirates along the way than the cargo.

That's the good lazy. Totally different thing.

 

[daman]

There quite simply is no "issue" that requires someone to combat log. Not one. Anyone saying there is is condoning cheating. End of discussion!

First up - no one has said there is an issue that "requires" someone to combat log, and no one is condoning it - they are just explaining some of the reasons some people may do so.this has been repeated so many times its prob pointless to do so again - you just don't want to hear it.

I already said not condoning. From a personal perspective - I couldn't care less about rebuys.

And I have literally just had 2 attacker in a wing who interdicted me log off as their hulls started to head downwards.

I have never CL'd, only had it happen to me a number of times by people in scenarios where they started the fight.

Back to the issue of issues - they have already been mentioned - include broken CnP system, engineering that had led to a big imbalance in the game among others.

None of that is to condone. Just to explain. But it seems you are wearing blinkers buddy.

but you are right - they would be better off in solo or a PG rather than to CL in open.

EDIT: actually it wasn't you who said that. so the person who said that was right.

 

[Arguendo]

I never limited my discussion to "disconnects" as you like to put it. In fact most of the issues I described involved game bugs causing a crash that required a task kill to exit the game. Those are all extremely relevant for detecting combat logging vs. the process crashing or needing to be task killed due to a game bug. If someone is telling me how "stable" the game is for them yet hasn't encountered a well-documented game bug that was reported numerous times that tells me that their experiences in the game are quite limited in that area.

Tbh, it sounds to me like you're afraid the Karma system will come to haunt you, because for some reason the game is extremely unstable on your end.

Tell me, in the last month, how many times has your game crashed and/or have you had to taskkill it due to a bug?

I've encountered several bugs in the game, but I honestly can't remember the last time I experienced a bug that I had to taskkill to "get out of". I believe I had some intermittent freezes over a year ago that I had to taskkill to get out of, but that's all I can remember. The busy dock I've had several times, but there's no reason to taskkill to get rid of that. The raining skimmers I luckily escaped experiencing, and don't sound like much fun I admit. Other than that, the only bug I frequently experience now is the failed loading of a complete mission list and the sounds of my SCBs are gone as they are for everyone else. That you keep experience every single bug in the game, all the time, is incredulous to me. So much so in fact, that I think you are being disingenous. I am sure you have heard about many reports, but if you actually experience all of them all the time, it makes me wonder how you can play the game at all.

So please, tell us how many times you've experienced a taskkill-worthy (that excludes Log out to Main Menu btw) bug since let's say the release of 2.4.

 

[Martian Successor]

I never said it was a "majority" of players, only that is was frequent problem for many players. Which is quite obvious if you read the forums and bug reports.



I never claimed to. You made that claim about "statistical analysis" when it was obviously untrue.



Which tells me that you and your player group likely have a playstyle which does not encompass a wide enough variety of game activities to encounter these various bugs.

Everything else you've typed is basically you stating over and over that your personal gaming experiences in Elite are somehow more relevant that all of the information I've read on these forums.

Sorry, but they aren't.



First, I was never limiting my discussion to simply "connection issues" as you like to put it. I was referring to the entire range of bugs and problems, many of which require the game to be task-killed and would be quite relevant for the issue of detecting and "punishing" combat logging.

Second, whether you've actually encountered bugs that were reported numerous times is very relevant. If you haven't experienced either of these bugs personally then that tells me your experiences are quite limited in this area and I shouldn't give your personal "experiences" any particular consideration because they are too limited to be relevant.

Sorry Devari but you have continually failed to show me why your personal experiences and your confirmation bias is more relevant than anyone else informing you that their experience is different and they simply do not face the same level of instability whenever they play ED. It's just pointless to continue engaging you in conversation when all you do is refuse to admit that your personal experience is not the be all and end all and instead you just double down and continue onwards just for the sake of arguing.

It's clear that you and I will not agree with each other because you are incapable of acknowledging that your experience is not the majority experience just because you want it to be.

 

[JosiahD]

It's quite common on these forums, lots of people in this thread have displayed their true character. They think it's okay to cheat against ''SDC'' because they hold some sort of personal grudge against the group vision.

Their vision is far more detrimental than SDC playstyle to the game.

Or alternatively some of us just don't agree it's as big a problem as some others make out. I don't dispute it's an issue, and Frontier possibly needs to be more active in remediating it, but I am yet to see defined, unbiased statistical data that clearly demonstrates just what the scale is of combat logging activity. A group pushing an undoubtedly biased agenda, again, is not an unbiased statistical sample of PvP (or PvE) interactions on which to base a conclusion as to just how rife combat logging really is, or isn't. What proportion of the community has ever combat logged? What proportion of all combat encounters ends in a disconnect? How many disconnects regularly occur (without using the menu) in out-of-combat situations? How many of those disconnects involve an individual player repeatedly. How many of the disconnects in combat, across all situations and all the playerbase, are potential task-kill or pull-the-plug combat logging (ie without using the menu) as opposed to technical issues? Neither you, nor anyone else, can verify the answers to these because none of us have the data. Frontier might, if they have the necessary telemetry data recorded, but even with all that, they would have a hard time proving, BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, an intentional combat log as opposed to technical issues. Given the vagaries of internet connections, I reckon the action most would receive would be nothing more than a warning email, maybe a short suspension or shadow ban into solo. But a permanent ban (or account wipe), as some might propose will just not be possible where combat logging is concerned, except in the most blatant examples (a mere fraction of the total likely population of combat loggers). My stance is simple - if that's what people want dished out to combat loggers, fine, but .......

Under no circumstance cheating or hacking should be endorsed. These people are the worst kind of player in an online game.

......I don't disagree...so long as we impose the same attitude towards all cheats, including the engineering exploit/cheat (used by a number of SDC members, among other groups) that arguably had a far more detrimental impact on many unsuspecting players than combat logging ever will....

Impose a ban all you like on combat logging - as I've already stated it's not up to me whether that's an appropriate level of punishment for combat logging. That's for Frontier to decide. So long as the ban hammer is wielded equally against other cheats.....

 

[Sole Hunter]

Or alternatively some of us just don't agree it's as big a problem as some others make out. I don't dispute it's an issue, and Frontier possibly needs to be more active in remediating it, but I am yet to see defined, unbiased statistical data that clearly demonstrates just what the scale is of combat logging activity. A group pushing an undoubtedly biased agenda, again, is not an unbiased statistical sample of PvP (or PvE) interactions on which to base a conclusion as to just how rife combat logging really is, or isn't. What proportion of the community has ever combat logged? What proportion of all combat encounters ends in a disconnect? How many disconnects regularly occur (without using the menu) in out-of-combat situations? How many of those disconnects involve an individual player repeatedly. How many of the disconnects in combat, across all situations and all the playerbase, are potential task-kill or pull-the-plug combat logging (ie without using the menu) as opposed to technical issues? Neither you, nor anyone else, can verify the answers to these because none of us have the data. Frontier might, if they have the necessary telemetry data recorded, but even with all that, they would have a hard time proving, BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, an intentional combat log as opposed to technical issues. Given the vagaries of internet connections, I reckon the action most would receive would be nothing more than a warning email, maybe a short suspension or shadow ban into solo. But a permanent ban (or account wipe), as some might propose will just not be possible where combat logging is concerned, except in the most blatant examples (a mere fraction of the total likely population of combat loggers). My stance is simple - if that's what people want dished out to combat loggers, fine, but .......



......I don't disagree...so long as we impose the same attitude towards all cheats, including the engineering exploit/cheat (used by a number of SDC members, among other groups) that arguably had a far more detrimental impact on many unsuspecting players than combat logging ever will....

Impose a ban all you like on combat logging - as I've already stated it's not up to me whether that's an appropriate level of punishment for combat logging. That's for Frontier to decide. So long as the ban hammer is wielded equally against other cheats.....

Your personal opinion is irrelevant and your personal opinion of SDC is also irrelevant.

Frontier themselves have said that combat logging is cheating, period. No matter who's the offender.

Now the question beg, do you endorse cheating, yes or no?

Source : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/105778-“Combat-Logging”-Update

......I don't disagree...so long as we impose the same attitude towards all cheats, including the engineering exploit/cheat (used by a number of SDC members, among other groups) that arguably had a far more detrimental impact on many unsuspecting players than combat logging ever will....

The engineer exploit, objectively didn't have an equal or far more detrimental impact on the game, it was an isolated event that happened over the course of a few months and conducted by a very few amount of players.

Combat logging happens on a daily basis, in fact it happens every single day and there's no fix implemented for it. Not only that, but it is incredibly detrimental to many in-game activities, such as bounty hunting, piracy and pvp to name a few. So I fail to see the longevity impact of a few commanders using an exploit to gain better modules versus thousands of people combat logging ''cheating'' everyday and ruining others fun.

 

[Asp Explorer]

So I fail to see the longevity impact of a few commanders using an exploit to gain better modules versus thousands of people combat logging ''cheating'' everyday and ruining others fun.

It's fairly clear that is indeed an impact with longevity, as people fed up with getting exploded by pew-pews abusing exploited modules (which were subsequently shrunken) still express no desire to play with pew-pews, even to laugh at their shrunken modules

 

[Sole Hunter]

It's fairly clear that is indeed an impact with longevity, as people fed up with getting exploded by pew-pews abusing exploited modules (which were subsequently shrunken) still express no desire to play with pew-pews, even to laugh at their shrunken modules

No and people get blown up everyday, that's a bad argument.

Also we are getting off-topic again, the issue at talk here is combat logging and not what 15 cmdrs exploited over the course of a few weekends.

 

[DR Grandreefer]

Deleted post.

 

[JosiahD]

Your personal opinion is irrelevant and your personal opinion of SDC is also irrelevant.

My opinion on combat logging (given others have asserted that there is a PvE impact seemingly as important as the impact on PvP) is just as relevant as yours! And while I might have a certain opinion of SDC and what they and similar minded groups stand for, it doesn't change the FACT that we still have no metrics being presented in regard to just how significant a problem it is. Yet we continue to get these assertions that it's a big or major problem - but no metrics to back that up. Opinions one may have of one group or another are irrelevant in consideration of that.

Frontier themselves have said that combat logging is cheating, period. No matter who's the offender.

Now the question beg, do you endorse cheating, yes or no?

Source : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/105778-“Combat-Logging”-Update

I have already given my position on cheating, of all forms, which you clearly could not be bothered reading....

The engineer exploit, objectively didn't have an equal or far more detrimental impact on the game, it was an isolated event that happened over the course of a few months and conducted by a very few amount of players.

Absolute poppycock.....especially for those on the receiving end of attacks using those cheated ships. Sounds like your the one condoning cheating, not me.

Combat logging happens on a daily basis, in fact it happens every single day and there's no fix implemented for it. Not only that, but it is incredibly detrimental to many in-game activities, such as bounty hunting, piracy and pvp to name a few. So I fail to see the longevity impact of a few commanders using an exploit to gain better modules versus thousands of people combat logging ''cheating'' everyday and ruining others fun.

"Incredibly detrimental" depends on just what the scale of combat logging is across the game - both in PvP and PvE as some other keep asserting. See my first point above - back up just what the scale of occurrence of combat logging with unbiased statistical data. Otherwise "incredibly detrimental" is nothing more than opinion, and a biased one at that I'd wager. I don't doubt it occurs every day. So does griefing/ganking. So does mode switching to reset the mission board. So do internet issues that cause disconnects for some players. And a whole range of other activities in game both intended and unintended. Your point? It's very ironic that you raise the point of combat logging ruining the fun of others when there are certain players out there who have been deriving their pleasure through depriving others of theirs (arguably griefing/ganking depending on one's point of view), in the absence of effective consequences for murder/destruction since the game's release, some with those very same cheated engineer modules over a significant period of time. Hmm....

 

[Sole Hunter]

My opinion on combat logging (given others have asserted that there is a PvE impact seemingly as important as the impact on PvP) is just as relevant as yours! And while I might have a certain opinion of SDC and what they and similar minded groups stand for, it doesn't change the FACT that we still have no metrics being presented in regard to just how significant a problem it is. Yet we continue to get these assertions that it's a big or major problem - but no metrics to back that up. Opinions one may have of one group or another are irrelevant in consideration of that.



I have already given my position on cheating, of all forms, which you clearly could not be bothered reading....





Absolute poppycock.....especially for those on the receiving end of attacks using those cheated ships. Sounds like your the one condoning cheating, not me.



"Incredibly detrimental" depends on just what the scale of combat logging is across the game - both in PvP and PvE as some other keep asserting. See my first point above - back up just what the scale of occurrence of combat logging with unbiased statistical data. Otherwise "incredibly detrimental" is nothing more than opinion, and a biased one at that I'd wager. I don't doubt it occurs every day. So does griefing/ganking. So does mode switching to reset the mission board. So do internet issues that cause disconnects for some players. And a whole range of other activities in game both intended and unintended. Your point? It's very ironic that you raise the point of combat logging ruining the fun of others when there are certain players out there who have been deriving their pleasure through depriving others of theirs (arguably griefing/ganking depending on one's point of view), in the absence of effective consequences for murder/destruction since the game's release, some with those very same cheated engineer modules over a significant period of time. Hmm....

What is the most discussed and published exploit in Elite Dangerous since the release of the game?

Answer : Combat logging

Nobody care about what 15 cmdrs did with exploited modules, these people would have been blown up regardless and plus that issue was fixed the days it was brought up to light. Was something ever done to fix combat logging? No, not only that but Frontier got caught, not once but twice now, ignoring reports.

I assure you, the metrics are high. You don't need to go far to see the impact and you don't need a spreadsheet with a bunch of boring numbers. Get out of this forum for 5 minutes, google combat logging elite dangerous and you'll find thousand of videos and discussions on the subject.

As for asking whether or not you are condoning cheating, it's hard to tell by looking at your posts. Since you dodged the question and you have a difficult time condoning combat logging, I'll assume that you are endorsing it.

That being said, I'm done discussing this issue with you.


------


Here is for your utmost pleasure to read since Combat Logging doesn't seems to be an actual issue :


https://www.pcgamesn.com/elite-dangerous/elite-dangerous-combat-logging

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/319109/elite-dangerous-combat-logging/319130

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rs-are-trying-to-get-frontier-to-fix-cheating

https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/484023/Elite+Dangerous+user+criticises+Frontier+over+combat+logging/

https://segmentnext.com/2016/11/23/...ers-are-deliberately-ignoring-combat-logging/

http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthread.php?t=1289913

https://ruclip.com/video/cAhf1QDp9N4/elite-dangerous-pvp-and-combat-logging-issue.html

http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/...rous-news-update-issues-on-combat-logging.htm

https://www.vg247.com/2016/11/23/el...sing-frontier-to-address-cheating-complaints/

https://mmoexaminer.com/elite-dangerous-exploit-cheaters/

http://massivelyop.com/2016/11/23/e...s-accuse-frontier-of-ignoring-combat-exploit/

http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/elite_dangerous,3305777.html

https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2016-24-11-the-elite-dangerous-community-are-not-impressed-with-frontier-developments-lack-of-support

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ion_into_frontiers_actions_on_combat/dacac6q/

 

[DR Grandreefer]

Aw diddums blocked me... I'll respond anyways, so the rest of us can revel in your complete lack of rational cognitive functioning. The parallel I provided was to expose your dysfunctional logic train, not compare uni research to cheating in a game, so I'll dumb it down another level...

Combat logging is cheating. Agreed.
Cheating is cheating. Agreed.

BUT...

Explaining why someone might be inclined to cheat DOES NOT equate condoning. Logical derailment, do not pass go.

Considering tackling clogging (which seems to affect a small but vocal minority) a trivial priority within the broader scope of the games development priorities DOES NOT equate condoning. Fail.

But then hey, you've now blocked me for apparently being a 'cheat enabler' for simply outing your complete disconnect from logic... brilliant.

Well said sir. Again people resort to name callIng and profiling people because they attempted to look at it from a different way. I get that your way to play(killing everything that moves) is in threat if everyone can dashboard on you but if that’s all you do in Elite then that’s sad. I have an older couple that I met in game that only go out to explore. He and his wife are explorers and that’s all they do. 2 Xbox’s next to each other on a couch while they explore. What do you get from killing somebody that has only studied one aspect of the game. This is like challenging somebody to a game that they don’t play and you studied for ever. Cheating is all a very relative term and depending on where your standing a lot of stupid actions can easily be called cheating. Especially when its about “I just want to kill everything”. This game is more then that and clearly FDev wants you to do more then that with their game and developers of games will always find ways to force you to switch up your game-play especially when it effects so many other play styles so drastically. That is true for both sides of this argument.

 

[DR Grandreefer]

I think the biggest issue here is only like 10-15% of FDevs gamers actually have problems with combat logging and that’s because those 10-15% shoot everything in sight. Again I’m not saying your way to play is wrong but It’s hard to please a small minority of players in a game when their play style is so backwards to the majority. I think the biggest issue for you “combat logging is cheating” argument is that the majority still see murder as murder in elite no matter how homicidal your role playing is.

 

[Devari]

Tbh, it sounds to me like you're afraid the Karma system will come to haunt you, because for some reason the game is extremely unstable on your end.

No, what I'm saying is exactly the opposite. If FD had frequent and harsh "punishment" for task killing the client then they would be essentially punishing players for game bugs that FD has been unable or unwilling to fix properly. Those bugs have nothing to do with intentional player behavior or with player connection issues. The bugs I'm describing are not on "my end" at all. They have been reported by many other players. I do everything possible on "my end" to ensure the game runs as stable as possible, including using an internet landline, keeping my OS (Win 10) updated, using the latest NVIDIA drivers for my GPU and so on. Nothing I can do will prevent a station menu freeze, a game freeze when transitioning to or from SC, an unexplained game crash, a ship spawning on my landing pad, a falling skimmer, a crash when killing a certain number of massacre mission targets and so on. Those have absolutely nothing to do with my "connection".

Tell me, in the last month, how many times has your game crashed and/or have you had to taskkill it due to a bug?

I haven't recorded it but during the last two weeks this has happened around 6-8 times, approximately once per gaming session which averages 2 hours in length. Approximately half of those were station menu freezes, the others were transitions to SC or interdictions and two were cases of the client crashing entirely on its own without a task kill required (i.e., game crashes to desktop). Additionally I encountered numerous other bugs during that time which did not require a task kill but affected my gaming experience and have required me to quit to the main menu and re-enter the game. These involved approximately a dozen cases of having another ship spawn on my landing pad despite having clearance to land (which my ship's docking computer and the NPCs would still try to land on), having a ship spawn on my landing pad and clip into my ship when switching ships and well as a few times where my SRV got stuck in terrain. There are also numerous graphical bugs that still remain unaddressed, including flickering lighting on planets and delayed star texture pop-in upon jumping to a system.

Overall I'm encountering at least one recognizable bug at least once or twice per hour on average, possibly more. None of them have anything to do with my "connection" or anything on my end. They have been reported frequently by other players. It's worse when I'm using multicrew or wings as that also involves numerous D/Cs as well in addition to the bugs I've mentioned but I've generally avoided using multiplayer or wings as much as possible.

I've encountered several bugs in the game, but I honestly can't remember the last time I experienced a bug that I had to taskkill to "get out of". I believe I had some intermittent freezes over a year ago that I had to taskkill to get out of, but that's all I can remember. The busy dock I've had several times, but there's no reason to taskkill to get rid of that. The raining skimmers I luckily escaped experiencing, and don't sound like much fun I admit. Other than that, the only bug I frequently experience now is the failed loading of a complete mission list and the sounds of my SCBs are gone as they are for everyone else. That you keep experience every single bug in the game, all the time, is incredulous to me. So much so in fact, that I think you are being disingenous. I am sure you have heard about many reports, but if you actually experience all of them all the time, it makes me wonder how you can play the game at all.

So please, tell us how many times you've experienced a taskkill-worthy (that excludes Log out to Main Menu btw) bug since let's say the release of 2.4.

Again, whether you encounter these bugs as frequently as other players is not a coherent argument. I'm referring to well-documented bugs reported by numerous players. Myself and other players encounter these issues frequently enough that it would significantly interfere with attempts to "detect" combat logging accurately. If FD can't consistently and accurately identify patterns of player behavior than it is not reasonable to expect them to "punish" it harshly when it occurs in isolated instances. In general it's not even reasonable to expect much "punishment" for these issues considering FD has already demonstrated that they are very reluctant to "punish" players who are known to use very specific exploits for over a year. The argument that "I saw someone combat log and they aren't banned" is quite simply a ridiculous argument to make because if that was how FD approached the situation we would have substantial numbers of players incorrectly banned due to the various bugs and other issues I've described.