PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

GreyAreaUK

GreyAreaUK
Cmdr. Jägermeister said:
There are only so many ways to get someone elses cargo:
1 Threaten them with something like "Stop and drop your cargo or die!" => They log because "you will certainly kill them once they´ve dropped their cargo"
or they high-/low wake so you interdict them again which will lead to 2
2 Take down their shields (with your weapons) and then either use a limpet to open the cargo hatch or destroy your cargo hatch with your weapons => They log before the shields are down because "you are not a pirate but a griefer trying to kill them".
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I think one of the areas that I'd like Frontier to look at is comms. In these sorts of situations (legit piracy) comms matter so very, very much. It can make all the difference between "You're a pirate" and "you're just a griefer".

But it's also true that it's a right pain rattling out a message while trying to fly, keep an eye on your intended victim, etc, especially on the Consoles. One of the things that Powderpanic (all all people!) suggested was a sort of quick-call-up message wheel you could pre-populate with messages. I like that idea.
 
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Lateralus

Lateralus
Cmdr. Jägermeister said:
There are only so many ways to get someone elses cargo:
1 Threaten them with something like "Stop and drop your cargo or die!" => They log because "you will certainly kill them once they´ve dropped their cargo"
or they high-/low wake so you interdict them again which will lead to 2
2 Take down their shields (with your weapons) and then either use a limpet to open the cargo hatch or destroy your cargo hatch with your weapons => They log before the shields are down because "you are not a pirate but a griefer trying to kill them".
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Exactly... Those who have never or will never pirate other players have no idea what they're talking about.

Nearly all players run from pirates who communicate clear messages (I send three before opening fire)... Then cry griefer when they get killed.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
seko said:
I agree it's a game, CL is only frowned upon by griefers, who get upset, when their prey denies them their prize. That's why PG's exist.
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Agreed - PGs exist. They (plus Solo) provide somewhere between an extremely good and a completely reliable way to guarantee that no other player will attempt to destroy your ship or otherwise directly interact with you in a way you don't want.

So ... why not just *use* them rather than CLing? I'd like to see better search and advertising facilities for PGs in-game, but it's not like there isn't an extremely famous PvE PG or four available.

(I mean, the seal clubbers who CL as soon as the tables are turned, obviously because they won't find targets in Solo. I mean non-combat players who consider any player attack unfair?)

Indeed, if the punishment for disconnects in combat - intentional or otherwise - was an automatic 24 hour ban from Open ... well, it would be a little irritating to me on the rare occasions my network is unstable but I'd put up with it ... no real harm at all to "peaceful" CLers ... and would give a way to get the seal clubbing types out of Open that's actually more effective than killing them. All seems win-win.
 

Lateralus

Lateralus
Phoenix_Dfire said:
Well, it's griefers and pirates (which I have no problem with as long as they warn and use hatch breakers) at the moment. But imagine if you had a proper player based bounty hunting system. It will be the very griefers who are complaining now that will be combat logging.
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lol no.. we'd be enjoying killing wave after wave of try-hards coming after us. Those in PvP circles who actually value their rep will not combat log - non of us want that label
 
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GreyAreaUK

GreyAreaUK
Lateralus said:
It is if you lose all your modules that weren't exploited on, which is what happened to a lot of players.
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As I recall, players lost all mods to modules of the same type as they had exploited. Frontier couldn't identify the specific module, so they had to blitz all of them of that type that the player owned.

So if you'd exploited a 6A Grade 5 FSD, all of your 6A FSDs would lose their mods. That's still not really punishment.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
seko said:
I agree it's a game, CL is only frowned upon by griefers, who get upset, when their prey denies them their prize. That's why PG's exist. I wonder how many of these posts, complaining are from whinging griefers. I recognise a few names
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It's cheating, so frowning should be the default facial expression. I am frowning as I type. And indeed, that's why PGs exist. If you know you are unwilling to engage in PvP, there are other modes more suited for you.

Furthermore, while being very critical of past actions of SDC, you cannot hold that against them when they focus attention on an act of cheating. It doesn't matter who reports it when it's factual and done honestly. That only deserves kudos.
 

seko

seko
Phoenix_Dfire said:
Well, it's griefers and pirates (which I have no problem with as long as they warn and use hatch breakers) at the moment. But imagine if you had a proper player based bounty hunting system. It will be the very griefers who are complaining now that will be combat logging.
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Pirates I have no problem with, it's the players who think it's part of the game to shoot up ships on the ground and other players in SRVs, which I have seen recently
 
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GreyAreaUK

GreyAreaUK
Han_Zen said:
Exploiters should have been made to pay back all the material they swindled the engineers for, before being allowed to engineer again. :D
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Oh gods, that would have been awesome! "I'm not touching your FSD until you turn in 2,576 Datamined Wake Exceptions". *screams*
 

bootsam

bootsam
This isnt about piracy. Its about people who want to see pixels go boom. Next they'll bring up PP or some other tangent. This is down to murder hobos and their plea to have their victims penalised further. As if their initial interaction wasnt enough. High wake they say, in their 'engineered' ships mass locking and sniping. Yeah, yeah. Most people know the score and are not the idiots some would take us for. No-one with a mind takes anything from SDC with anything less than a pinch of salt. At the very least suspicion. Motives are always ulterior and they're always present at the forum war. But we do great deeds and help old ladies cross the road. Yeah, yeah.

In game piracy is as much a victim of the murder hobo's as the players are.
 

Sirius Agent

Sirius Agent
Reason of CL is just one simple thing - too large victim punishment and nothing to oppressor. There should be some benefits for pvp not just punishments forcing people to do more grinding. Crime and punishment is ridiculous.
 
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Lateralus

Lateralus
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Who the triehards are is debatable and likely to change from the point of view someone looks at it.
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They'd be the same as all those guys trying to kill Harry Potter after the Salome debacle. Respect to them for having a go, but most of them died quite quickly..

To be fair that's what the open game is supposed to be like though.. how it would be if combat logging wasn't such a plague.
 

Bran Tse Mallory

Bran Tse Mallory
Just some basic points on this in the order they happen and the implications

1. I buy a PC - This is now my property and I have the right to decide what I do with it, when it is on and what it is connected to at all times.
2. I accept an EULA from Microsoft that gives permission to use the software as intended - This includes the task manager and 'Alt+F4' to kill any tasks that I chose, see above for reasons why.
3. I buy a license for a game such as Elite and accept the EULA which not only contradicts point number 2 but also tries to limit my ability to control my own hardware.

In short there is no way that any games company can stop me from doing anything with property that I own i.e. The hardware.

If anyone chose's to turn of their router, un-plug a cable or kill a task they are within their rights to do so. Software house however know that no-one would take them to court over being banned due to combat logging as the company can destroy you financially with legal fees long before the case ever makes it before a judge and they play on this by imposing terms on us.

All of that said I do not condone combat logging nor do I think it is right to use the menu to leave the game while in combat but at times needs must for some. Yes combat logging is a problem but the ability to do anything about it is a legal minefield. Ultimately though you have the right to do what ever you wish with your hardware at anytime... Always remember this and never accept the false control imposed on you by a software house.
 
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