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An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Ummmm, what?
That marketing video depicts the idealised vision of what FDEV intended to happen within the game.
In fact what really happens is this - now, picture the scene...
Indiscriminate Ganking. Every bloody day.
That marketing video depicts some jolly alternate universe in which actual pirates are playing out the role of pirates. I find it amusing that you pick this video out as an example.
No he's not lying.
Elite Dangerous was never sold as a PvP game.
He's operating from the viewpoint of the ideal way the company envisaged people would play the game.
Unfortunately, FDEV failed to take into account that element and subset of the human race that just wants to watch the world burn. This is perhaps the biggest failure FDEV have made.
FDEV have constantly shown to be utterly naive in this respect. They have singularly failed to realise to date that there are players of their game who don't give a frack about most of the stuff Frontier's devs work hard to put into the game. Anyone who has ever spent the time to watch any SDC member's Twitch streams will realise this simple glaring fact, for example - these players do not care about the game. Perhaps privately FDEV realise this - but it still boggles my mind that in the two years since release FDEV have done frack all to implement some sort of karma and/or crime and punishment system which encourages that naive vision they have of the way they think their game should be played, and the crap version of the game we have today.
In fact for those players - their only reason they click on PLAY on the game launcher, is for indiscriminate ganking and murder.
David Braben and co. should spend a few days just looking through SDC members twitch streams. This would be highly educational for them. I repeat - they do not care about the game content - the only content for them and their ilk is the other human beings controlling the virtual space ships they are blowing up.
I play in a Private Group.
Just pointing out that being annoyed by pillocks is different than being afraid of pillocks. Something that people who talk in terms of 'having a spine', 'being afraid', 'hiding in solo/PG', 'cowards' fail to grasp. And it really reflects poor on those people if they think in those terms about a game.
Problem is your interpretation of Open being an agreement for interaction still sits on an agreement for particular types of positive interaction, where interaction can in fact, be negative. You choose who you interact with or who you don't. That's an agreement for interaction. If we are to interact as a society, we need to accept there are times we don't. We don't force each and everyone we meet into a conversation because we agree we're social people?
The issue is Elite Open is an open social. The agreement is we understand we interact in different ways, but if someone is forcing their choice of interaction solely onto one other group (for instance picking on one particular easy type of human target) that's not interaction agreement, that's interaction incroachment. If it's done as part of the agreed world, then that's agreed interaction. If you're trading and someone comes to pirate you with the intent of a pirate (drop your goods or I destroy you) where options exist, that's acceptable interaction of agreement.
It's a very quick way of me saying that this idea of agreement of interaction isn't as simple as we'd like, because this issue is remarkably complex. We purchase a game to play as we want, but equally we're purchasing a game where HOW we play, affects others, be you someone abusively picking on targets or combat logging when in a fair battle.
Worth reminding people a lot of "griefing" types who pick on small targets only, also/may combat log if "picked" on themselves. It's not simply a PVE vs PVP mentality here with logging. It's a complicated moral and practical issue with no easy solutions.
Let's say I was a UK citizen unhappy about a real or perceived issue with the tax system. A large fraction of UK citizens share my stance on the issue. Then you, while in public and wearing a uniform or other visible HMRC identification say to me "this is my personal view; stop crying and learn to tax". That would most definitely affect my opinion of the UK tax authority.
that's actually very bad policing of the game and by itself would warrant all the flak frontier is getting for this. just my opinion.
Brett C
Frontier
So regarding this, every week I pull up metrics for the forums, manually and automatically. What I read and see is what I write down and pass along, there is legitimately no modification from analytics result/forum metrics to write-up done. The only time I have to take sides on something is when the discussion is so overwhelming - not just on the forums, but on reddit, facebook and even twitter combined. For that to happen is quite rare to begin with.
With this thread here, it's a pickle. I have multiple sides all giving input to the scenario, and there's really no easy solution that will make people happy. Sure, I'm going to get yelled at for "did you even read the last 1000 replies?", "omg just implement crime punishment system rabble rabble...", etc etc. At this point, I'm trying to find the key points that appear to jive with the community. So far, not at that point. Reddit seems to be coming to a meeting ground, but here on the forums, not so much.
This is not a valid reason to ignore combat logging - it's a reason to improve the crime system, which going by some of Brett's earlier comments in this thread, FDev seem afraid to do (can't think why, the vast majority appear to want it).
The reason the "PvP'ers" - and I put them in quotes because in reality they're nothing more than serial gankers who give PvP'ers a bad name - are kicking up this fuss, has nothing at all to do with "being annoyed at combat loggers".
This is the ganker segment playing the forum meta-game. It is purely to try to force FDEV's hand in ways which FDEV can't, won't, or don't want to go.
Regarding the last line - that may have something do with the fact that reddit gets responses faster than this very forum, which is pretty weird because reddit is some 3rd party site and this forum is your primary forum.
"No cheating or taking advantage of exploits in the game
We do not tolerate cheating of any kind in the game, this includes using automated programs or services offered outside of the game to generate player advantage, altering game code or using cheat codes.
We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.
Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalise and could face a game ban."
This is the quote used by you Brett to explain the rules against combat logging; I ask again does this cover suicidewinder bounty clearing or mission-stacking for a newb-ganking-killa-ship ?
We do not tolerate cheating of any kind in the game, this includes using automated programs or services offered outside of the game to generate player advantage, altering game code or using cheat codes.
We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.
Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalise and could face a game ban."
This is the quote used by you Brett to explain the rules against combat logging; I ask again does this cover suicidewinder bounty clearing or mission-stacking for a newb-ganking-killa-ship ?
Hypothetical Ruminations Gone Wild Vol 2
Brett C
Frontier
Opinion noted. It's just not my job to oversee who is and who isn't getting banned/moderated/suspended in game.
Brett C
Frontier
Not something i can readily answer right at this moment. Sorry.
That's easy. Space Monkeys. Everyone wants Space Monkeys.
As a Community Manager you should be aware of this.
Brett C
Frontier
Reddit is a much larger community and website-traffic as a whole. Granted, when we look in more closely, /r/EliteDangerous vs forum data begs to differ that. We have a high user retainment rate here vs /r/EliteDangerous, same goes for session counts. However, /r/EliteDangerous is a bit more liberal in their moderation practices (i think!), where as here it's a little more strict. Which probably off-sets the user
ost response ratio rates. Brett C
Frontier
That's almost like asking for space legs.... oh... what were we talking about here again?