We have moderator guidelines, and Brett and Zac help guide us in following those guidelines and tell us when we are being too hard or too soft.
We listen and nod wisely.
Then run rampant again.
Narf Narf
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Narf Narf
And they won't.
However, I think it is that time of the year when FD could give some insight in their options to solve this problem with more finesse. Sandro has already used to his second name
So that should be little to no problem at all.If reaction to Zac comment is any indication, kids will be kids throwing tantrums. Rest of us however are very keen to know progress or ideas on this.
A moral victory there but a shallow one. I concur, however FDev are the endgame winners. - they already have your money and my money - they dont care whether or not you and I play anymore, they are only focussed on new sales and player turnover to keep their shareholders and end of year surplus looking good.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
If it were that easy, i'd wave my hands and make it so.
I got 30 mods to keep track of, never know when one might escape!
What - you let T.j out again?
I see half the problem here being ones ability to not just 'git gud' at combat, but more the ability to simply learn this game in a whole number of ways... like properly opening your eyes and looking/scanning around, knowing the lay of the bubble, using your better judgement in certain situations and systems, knowing what's possible and what's not, knowing the capabilities of your ship and being confident in it..
Unfortunately for a lot of players, this has not been drilled into them and they fly around willy nilly without a care in the world and that's when they *sometimes* get into trouble. Learn from it and move on.
As Sundae has reiterated, the term 'griefing' is completely blown out of proportion and always has been... sure, there are known players out there doing their 'thing' and they always will be... you get to know them if you're smart and take measures to either avoid them, or in my case, shoot them up.. it's not hard to do this, but it does require some forward thinking. That's the beauty of a sandbox, you never know what's going to happen.. that's the whole point and that's the fun point. You don't have to die each and every time if you're willing to learn or at least try.
Combat logging is the easy way out of even having to bother to learn anything.. no loss, so why bother learning the finer points and improving yourself.. that's a glaring problem in my view.
Unfortunately for a lot of players, this has not been drilled into them and they fly around willy nilly without a care in the world and that's when they *sometimes* get into trouble. Learn from it and move on.
As Sundae has reiterated, the term 'griefing' is completely blown out of proportion and always has been... sure, there are known players out there doing their 'thing' and they always will be... you get to know them if you're smart and take measures to either avoid them, or in my case, shoot them up.. it's not hard to do this, but it does require some forward thinking. That's the beauty of a sandbox, you never know what's going to happen.. that's the whole point and that's the fun point. You don't have to die each and every time if you're willing to learn or at least try.
Combat logging is the easy way out of even having to bother to learn anything.. no loss, so why bother learning the finer points and improving yourself.. that's a glaring problem in my view.
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Holy hell I blurt out laughing.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
If it were that easy, i'd wave my hands and make it so.
I got 30 mods to keep track of, never know when one might escape!
We have moderator guidelines, and Brett and Zac help guide us in following those guidelines and tell us when we are being too hard or too soft.
We listen and nod wisely.
Then run rampant again.
We have to remember the code guys...
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me."
I don't feel involved as i never been "griefed" or attacked without reason (maybe one or two but managed to escape), i play 99% of the time in open.
I understand combat log must be frustrating.
Why not bend ALT+F4 with ship auto destruction ? [haha]
Why not let the griefer be harassed with engineered NPC from 2.1 (crazy railgun and plasma) ? [haha]
Pirating is nice, but there's a way to actually pirate
I understand combat log must be frustrating.
Why not bend ALT+F4 with ship auto destruction ? [haha]
Why not let the griefer be harassed with engineered NPC from 2.1 (crazy railgun and plasma) ? [haha]
Pirating is nice, but there's a way to actually pirate
However, if FDEV want any more of my money - and I would be doing so and have done already, as despite having a Lifetime Expansion Pass I have bought a second non-LTEP account (which I don't play on) - then they need to keep me interested in the bloody game.
Right now I have stopped playing it. Why?
Because I realised I'm not having fun. Right now there is nothing to keep me clicking that PLAY button on the launcher. This seems to be more than just burnout. The game as it currently stands is shallow - the game mechanics are shallow. Griefer groups like SDC are running rings around FDEV. FDEV are constantly fracking things up like this recent sop to the griefers with the fixed and gimbal 'rebalance'. Exploration is fracking grim and no longer holds any sort of appeal. The ED universe is a dystopian hellhole. In ED, non-criminals are punished severely and criminals are hardly punished at all. And so on and so on....
So yeah - FDEV have my money on the stuff I bought and paid for so far. That money they have won't last for long though. Servers and staff need to get paid, FDEV need to keep getting money from me and other players, so if they want that to happen, they better pull their socks up and start spending time on sorting the bloody game out as it stands, rather than spending time on low-hanging fruit like a gimbal nerf and fixed buff, for example.
New content is great like ship launched fighters, and starport interiors, for example. Fine. But if they persist in not fixing for example stuff like this situation : "Ganker/griefing playerbase does not get punished and their victims get overly punished just for trying to play the game that FDEV naively envisaged it should be played" : then I won't be spending time in the dystopian hell and will find other, better things to do with my time. And I certainly won't be giving them any more money.
Of course there is one quick adjustment FDEV -could- do that would effect all this.. Stop treating Players as any different to any other ship on the scanner.... unless they are in your wing.
Brett, I'd really like if you could get a dev to answer this one.. Why are players treated different in a universe where they claim that there is no difference between npc and pc.. How does my scanner know that the ship out there is 'special'.. the 'Square' is an instant give away, at least by removing it except if you've scanned the ship or its in your wing etc than it'd make people have to work for the encounter as ANY ship could be a player.
As it stands right now.. oh look square.. player.. instant i hit the system.
Brett, I'd really like if you could get a dev to answer this one.. Why are players treated different in a universe where they claim that there is no difference between npc and pc.. How does my scanner know that the ship out there is 'special'.. the 'Square' is an instant give away, at least by removing it except if you've scanned the ship or its in your wing etc than it'd make people have to work for the encounter as ANY ship could be a player.
As it stands right now.. oh look square.. player.. instant i hit the system.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
its sad to see so many of the original KSer elite players so disillusioned. Personally despite moaning about the game, at its core i still really like it, and for me Mobius group provides most of what i wanted out of open..... but, if i was FD I would be concerned at the old guard moving on.......... It shows imo that whilst they may still be selling copies of the game, which from a totally capitalist view is totally important, it does show that FD are failing to make the game they pitched to us in KSer
and despite what some say, about KS being gone and no longer important... i disagree..... the KSer promises are hugely important and FD would do well to remember that imo.
(@FD...... Design Decision Forum guys... not Design Discussion!)
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Because then you'd get lots of moaning and wailing from people who genuinely had short connection problems. It's really difficult to differentiate between real connection issues and willful interruption. It's even more difficult to keep the ship inside the instance and have it continue to take damage after the player dropped, and then somehow merge things back if he happens to come back because it was just a temporary connection issue.
This stuff is not easy and there's no simple technical solution.
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Sure, and they don't care about the game at all.
There's solution how to cool it down when you feel angry about the game - DO SOMETHING ELSE. Being sour and badmouthing devs on forums isn't really right way to do it.
I am of the view that Brett C et al fail to grasp the crux of the problem behind combat logging. It really comes down to the capital gain and labor loss one player suffers at the hand of another. It is no different from someone spending hours investing in obtaining several million dominos, spending hours setting up a great domino build, and have some creton come along and kick it off just for fun !
Take the battlefield franchise - I am about to purchase BF1 and I know I am going to get shot to bits multiple times as I learn the game and the art of staying alive. The difference is, I dont lose my kit and caboodle or a substancial amount of rebuy each time some one better kills me. I respawn get up and rejoin the fray. Great battles are had. That is a very simple formula and will help reduce combat logging like nothing else.
Take the battlefield franchise - I am about to purchase BF1 and I know I am going to get shot to bits multiple times as I learn the game and the art of staying alive. The difference is, I dont lose my kit and caboodle or a substancial amount of rebuy each time some one better kills me. I respawn get up and rejoin the fray. Great battles are had. That is a very simple formula and will help reduce combat logging like nothing else.
Probably like quite a few on here, I have a very busy full-time job (in charge of something a lot more complex than an ED starship!), and a home to run and a family who want my attention. Unlike the teenage bedroom warriors, I don't have time to 'git gud' or grind for credits or graduate to big ships. So, because of the very real risk of losing what little progress I've made, i don't play in Open. Ever. It's just not worth my while. And that's a great shame, because it seems to me that Open should be where the real game is, with players interacting in all sorts of ways and every career choice being as valid (and survivable) as any other. Reading these forums, FaceBook and Reddit, it seems pretty obvious that Open is becoming occupied by a reducing number of players, and they are split between Griefers who'll kill anything for lolz, and Combat Loggers who've found the only way to survive the Griefers' unwelcome attentions. Most everyone else has retreated to PGs or Solo.
It seems obvious that the almost non-existent C&P system is the root cause; some players will always capitalise on any exploits available, and there will always be a-hats who just like spoiling other people's days. On top of a full-on overhaul of C&P, I propose that repeat CL and Griefing offenders are banished to Arena for a week at a time. That'll make Open a more valid choice of gameplay and reinvigorate Arena, which has died a death - and the CLers and Griefers would go in on even terms. Might make the bullies think...
It seems obvious that the almost non-existent C&P system is the root cause; some players will always capitalise on any exploits available, and there will always be a-hats who just like spoiling other people's days. On top of a full-on overhaul of C&P, I propose that repeat CL and Griefing offenders are banished to Arena for a week at a time. That'll make Open a more valid choice of gameplay and reinvigorate Arena, which has died a death - and the CLers and Griefers would go in on even terms. Might make the bullies think...
The fact you can't see the hypocrisy in this is just another example of why FDev shouldn't be listening to the griefers in this.
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But that's exactly how Elite works and it works fine. You buy a bigger ship, you have a handful of rebuys. If you do get killed at some point along the line, nothing is lost and you maybe learned something along the way to mitigate the situation next time it possibly happens. It's very very rare that the odd death outweighs your play style and credit-making ability.
I am open to a discussion about that, but I personally don't have a strong opinion here because I would not use the Open PvP mode anyway, I can't talk for people who would like to be able to switch.
1. The notion that any BGS activity in modes other than Open Play (respectively Open PvP if Open PvE becomes an new mode) constitutes griefing is ludicrous. I guess you also consider it griefing that one can influence the BGS in solo mode?
2. Separate galaxies will not be a thing. FD have explained this more than once, the overhead of maintaining 2 galaxies is too large, and you'd suddenly have to divergent storylines, which at some point would have to be brute-forced together to reconcile any major future story developments. Not going to happen.
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Errr
That's what Elite is about. if you are not ready to lose, you better don't play this game. AT ALL.