With respect, your comments don't always reflect that.
An odd selection of aquatic animals.
- Thread starter Danny_zoo
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With respect, your comments don't always reflect that.
I'm green with envy! It must be very difficult for Frontier to try to make everyone happy, from the experts like you to the casual player that has only visited one zoo (if any).
With respect I could find a lot of subjectivity and bias in your comments as well Mark, but what would be the point? None of what I stated is that though, it is 100% factual. I never said that Grey Seals are not found in zoos, I provide a very detailed list of other animal species that Frontier could have used instead of them, and that are more Iconic and popular when it comes to an aquatic DLC. That list of course has obvious exceptions like the Beaver. That is a fact
With the King Penguin, while my position stands that in recent decades the go to penguins in zoos are African and Humboldt, and they are certainly the most popular, the iconic species is definitely the King Penguin, and I did state earlier that they do not suffer from the same habitat limitations of the Emperor Penguins, but are still not as common as the other two, That is a fact.
The Giant River Otter is amazing, I designed their exhibit at Amazon and Beyond in Zoo Miami previously Miami Metrozoo, and I was a huge advocate for them in the past. My only point of contention here is that the Asian Small Clawed Otter is a lot more common in zoos, and definitely the popular species with the masses of visitors. As to who takes the most iconic spot, that is definitely up for debate, as the Giant River Otter is definitely in recent times a highly desirable species by most major zoos. My only real concern is that they based their decision on size, and that would really create a problem for this game, because we need the little guys as well. That started as fact and became a personal opinion.
So Mark not sure what you are on about, but next time you write something you should double check what you are responding to in the first place.
I understand that, and they have done an amazing job overall, I have always complemented them on that. What I do a lot here is try to guide them towards a broad zoo perspective thru constructive criticism. My aim is for them to stay on track on the core mission of this game and not deflect too much from what the original concept was. Granted that at times, my personal opinions and bias get in the way of that, and I think that is something that is always bound to happen. But I aim to be fair on my assessment and critique, and when is time to go to bat for them, I have many times. Like with the anniversary hit job on Frontier, I thought it was completely unnecessary and definitely try to lower the temperature in the room for that one. This was just an observation, and I'm just creating conversation, even if some of the players take it in a completely different way.
Lol got it, point noted. Is just a little irritating when someone who definitely has no standing ground for their arguments goes ahead and criticizes me personally and goes as far as saying that I need to get a broader perspective, seriously? I mean I can say pretty much the same thing for each one of his comments.
My name isn't Mark and I agree entirely with what you say - that is exactly my advice to you. Let's leave it there.
Sorry I meant Markun, that was definitely an error. No big deal, It was just the way you put it, not that you are not partially correct in your assessment as well, I'm at times bias in my opinions based on my overall experience, I will definitely admit to that, but this thread was not really to discredit their selection process, as you well said we do not even know what the end result would look like, it was to point out that it was a little different than what should be considered standard. When you made the comment about the broader perspective, it did rub me the wrong way, because in a way that was exactly what you were doing. Had it read like "It's inevitable that our views will be formed on the basis of our experience but sometimes it is good to consider things from a European perspective" I would have have had a little less issue with it, but even then, the number you provided is a small percentage of the amount of zoos currently found in Europe, and when we get into the regional aspect of things, then it becomes even more murky. How many of those are in Southern Europe? How many of those are not in temperate climates? Then when you apply it to a global scale, it is even more selective, because the U.S as an example has close to 2400 zoos, that is a big chunk of the 10 000 zoos found in the world and how many of those have Grey Seals? Then when you take into consideration South American Zoos, those found in Central America, the Caribbean, when you go over the numbers in Africa, in Middle Eastern countries, the great zoos of South East Asia, then who is really looking at it from a narrow point of view? See what I mean?
Nothing against the Grey Seal, will probably built an amazing exhibit for them, it is just an observation, that is all. Lol, I know you said let's leave it there, but it felt unfinished
Hi everyone, I've been reading you for a long time and just signed up to give my opinion.
Do you think the 4 animals that have leaked will be part of the same DLC?
For me, the fact that the Sun Bear and the Giant Otter do not have females and children means that they will not appear in the upcoming DLC.
Thus, have ended up with the gray seal and the king penguin
But the gray seal does not live in Antarctica
So we will have semi aquatic animals from all over the world
Morse?
Humbolt penguin?
What do you think ?
Sorry for the mistakes I am French and go through google trad
Do you think the 4 animals that have leaked will be part of the same DLC?
For me, the fact that the Sun Bear and the Giant Otter do not have females and children means that they will not appear in the upcoming DLC.
Thus, have ended up with the gray seal and the king penguin
But the gray seal does not live in Antarctica
So we will have semi aquatic animals from all over the world
Morse?
Humbolt penguin?
What do you think ?
Sorry for the mistakes I am French and go through google trad
I am sharing your opinion, and think we won't be getting Otter and Bear in DLC together with Seal and Penguin. I'm gonna guess another Otter that Giant one will use rigs of, some small river Otter. And as of fourth I wouldn't be surprised by some kind of Sea Lion or southern Penguin
I'm guessing these along with many other animals are in the stage of being worked on, for release at "some point", though if it's true there's 200 rigs/animals...200 different species of consideration, some will not ultimately get made. It's nice to know that these four are, at very least, being considered but who knows when they'll come. I'm thinking there may be more rigs they are working on that they didn't show by mistake/"mistake" (whichever it may be).
At the very least, this tells me that they are definitely planning to release some coastal or partially aquatic animals at SOME point.
At the very least, this tells me that they are definitely planning to release some coastal or partially aquatic animals at SOME point.
I just watched the video again, and I am really not convinced that was any attempt to leak information to us. I have been involved in and sat through many technical presentations, and that is exactly what that video feels like. Tom Morledge opens the presentation by giving a little background on Frontier, who they are, where they are located, how many employees they have,etc. That's something you would say if you were giving a presentation to another group of developers. And then he runs the PZ trailer to show what the game is like. Again, introducing the game to folks who may have never seen it before. And then he closes the presentation by saying "thank you all for joining us, take care guys". Just the way you would close out a presentation like that. And as other's have stated, it not even a public video.
So I would really love to have a sun bear and a giant otter in game, but I am not getting my hopes up. The "leaked" animals may have nothing to do with the next DLC and Frontier could be having a good laugh watching us get all excited over some internal company tech presentation never intended for us. Guess we will just have to wait and see.
So I would really love to have a sun bear and a giant otter in game, but I am not getting my hopes up. The "leaked" animals may have nothing to do with the next DLC and Frontier could be having a good laugh watching us get all excited over some internal company tech presentation never intended for us. Guess we will just have to wait and see.
Jeminyne, I understand it, and you are correct, Zoo Tycoon did open the door for what we know now as the future of zoo games to exist. I'm in agreement, there is no debate there, it is a fact. However, in the world that we currently live in, and seeing how companies are inventing pretty much everything twice now a days, movies are done and redone in a hundred different ways, I would think that another company would have invested on the idea and light up the torch for zoos to exist in the virtual world. Zoos are a part of almost everyone's childhood memories, they bring nostalgia, they open your eyes and mind to a world that exists beyond what we see and understand. Some of those adults never truly grow up and dedicate their entire lives to zoos, I'm one of them, and definitely not the only one. It is hard to imagine in an alternative reality another company not creating a zoo game.
My issue with Zoo Tycoon is that it was the vision of those doing the creating, and as all visions, they end up becoming subjective to their own ideas for the game. Their animal collection was selected with care for the most part, they definitely did some research on the subject. Then they added an open air marine expansion to that game and dinosaurs, and I'm pretty sure I saw a unicorn or mermaid somewhere, but that might have been a mod, if that even existed back then. The point is, one of the biggest issues that Planet Zoo faces today is dealing with the endless legions of fans that grow up playing that game and believe no matter how you try reasoning with them, that this is the bible of Zoo games and all zoo games should be modelled accordingly. To someone like me, who did not grew up playing this game, but instead have a pretty good concept of how real life zoos are planned, designed and executed, it becomes a headache, because it feels like most of the time the community is swimming against the current, and the worse part is that they do not even see it, because they have been condition to think that they are not. The responsibility of this of course falls on the player, I'm not trying to blame Zoo Tycoon for that. They are never the less partially responsible, because if that company had taken a different approach, I would not be having so many engaging and lengthy conversations in this forum, about why sperm whales have no place in this game, or why a grey seal should not take precedent in a zoo game over an Asian Small Clawed Otter, a capybara, manatee or a Sea Lion, they should all be mute points. Not saying that any of those animals were a part of Zoo Tycoon, I honestly have no idea, lol, but my point is that Zoo Tycoon opened the door for a virtual zoo to include whatever it is they want to include. Mind you, if all those other animals were clear possibilities, I honestly could care less what they included, bring Ariel the mermaid for all I care, I just do not have to use them. The problem is that is not the case, and every slot in this game is critical, like the Formosan Bear and Himalayan Brown Bear they took two spots, in a roster of only 50. Even if we could have received Sun bears, Sloth Bears, American Black bears, or maybe one less bear, and get something else.
Comparing grey seals to sperm whales is ridiculous. Grey seals are uncommon, but not unheard in zoos. And even comparing Pinnipeds species, that are not keep in zoos currently like sea elephants, sea leopards or hooded seals to sperm whales would be ridiculous, because of the sheer size of a sperm whale
Right now, there is one zoo in Germany that keeps manatees: Nürnberg. Duisburg plans to get them after their old river dolphin dies. Berlin Tierpark gave their last manatee to France in 2019. Right now, manatees are as rare as river dolphins in German zoos and there are less than 10 zoos in Europe that have them.
But that doesn't matter for the grey seal, because there is space in planet zoo for at least one eared seal, one earless seal and one manatee. And the grey seal is a good ambassador or the earless or true seals, because it is relatively common in zoos. In Europe, it's only shadowed by the harbor seal and Google gave me several big American zoos that keep them. The grey seals have a bigger sexual dimorphism than the harbor seals, which is always welcomed. It's also the biggest natural predator in several European countries (what most people -me included- dont/ didn't know), so there's the first fun fact for you.
The grey seal should not be chosen over a sea lion, but it's a very solid choice for a zoo animal
Right now, there is one zoo in Germany that keeps manatees: Nürnberg. Duisburg plans to get them after their old river dolphin dies. Berlin Tierpark gave their last manatee to France in 2019. Right now, manatees are as rare as river dolphins in German zoos and there are less than 10 zoos in Europe that have them.
But that doesn't matter for the grey seal, because there is space in planet zoo for at least one eared seal, one earless seal and one manatee. And the grey seal is a good ambassador or the earless or true seals, because it is relatively common in zoos. In Europe, it's only shadowed by the harbor seal and Google gave me several big American zoos that keep them. The grey seals have a bigger sexual dimorphism than the harbor seals, which is always welcomed. It's also the biggest natural predator in several European countries (what most people -me included- dont/ didn't know), so there's the first fun fact for you.
The grey seal should not be chosen over a sea lion, but it's a very solid choice for a zoo animal
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I think it’s a possibility Frontier will eventually start making DLCs that are not based on continents. These animals could be in completely separate DLCs, but it’s also possible we could get something like a “coastal” or “aquatic” dlc with animals like the penguin and seal. I’d be surprised if we didn’t also get continent dlcs for North America, Asia, Europe, and Africa though, at least at some point before the game is finished.
Yes I've never really been sure why everyone acts as though continent DLCs are the obvious way for them to go all the time. In Planco we had the 'themed' packs like adventure etc. but then got the classic rides collection and worlds fair ones which I think were in direct response to player feedback that they would like more flat rides and less themed scenery items. If they do introduce new mechanics like diving and flying birds then there's almost no way the accompanying DLC would be geographically based or you'd end up with a very odd selection of coastal animals. It's why I was always a bit confounded by the upset about the lack of some animals in continent packs - Frontier are pretty good at listening to their community when it comes to obvious gaps in the roster. It'll be limited by technical constraints and the time they can spend but it wouldn't be a smart business move to say 'the community is crying out for sloths (just an example) but we've done South America that's that', it would be equally weird for them to say 'the community really wants sloths so now we have to come up with 3 other SA animals to round out the pack just so we can give them that'.
Just my 2 pennies (cents to the americans!) but continent packs made sense when the geographic diversity of the animal roster was really imbalnced but I don't imagine Frontier would limit themselves by that being the only way they can conceive a DLC - 'coastal critters' or 'creatures of the night' or 'outrageous omnivore' packs would make more sense in the long run.
Damn right.
In fact, isn't it possible that the DLCs we've had so far are just to give us what should have arguably been in the basegame from the start? And now we can expect more substantial DLCs in PZ?
I might be wrong on this one (I was not part of the PC community), but didn't PC start having proper DLCs (Spooky/Adventure/Studios, etc.) more than 1 year after release? We have no clue whether PZ could follow a similar trend from now on.
It's quite an optimistic POV but there's still a chance that the DLCs we've had were just 'gap fillers' and that only after 1 year we'll start seeing bigger and non-continent related packs. The possibilities are endless, from the super requested Aquatic and Aviaries DLCs to a Desert DLC, Tropics DLC, Night critters DLC or even Petting Zoo DLC.
In fact, isn't it possible that the DLCs we've had so far are just to give us what should have arguably been in the basegame from the start? And now we can expect more substantial DLCs in PZ?
I might be wrong on this one (I was not part of the PC community), but didn't PC start having proper DLCs (Spooky/Adventure/Studios, etc.) more than 1 year after release? We have no clue whether PZ could follow a similar trend from now on.
It's quite an optimistic POV but there's still a chance that the DLCs we've had were just 'gap fillers' and that only after 1 year we'll start seeing bigger and non-continent related packs. The possibilities are endless, from the super requested Aquatic and Aviaries DLCs to a Desert DLC, Tropics DLC, Night critters DLC or even Petting Zoo DLC.
Lol, my point was not to compared the two, my apologies if that was misunderstood because of my choice of words. Well aware of grey seals not being that uncommon in zoos, and especially northern/central European zoos. My point was as general observation of the kind of mindset you have to deal with in this forum, in part because of the Zoo Tycoon generation and their constant need to compare this game and other zoo game for that matter with its predecessor. In a general context It could refer to any animal that is overly common in zoos generally speaking, including but not limited to the Manatee.
Primates for example are vastly represented in zoos, the game has a good selection of Apes, as well as lemurs, yet monkeys are virtually non existent when you look at the real world statistics in zoos. Add to that primates are some of the most exiting animals to look at, because of their constant movement, etc, so is not like they would be boring in comparison to other animals. The same goes for everything else in the game, small carnivores, ungulates and like or not birds. I'm happy with the grey seal, that is not a problem, it is completely cool, but there a ton of animals that should have taken precedent, whether you agree or not, is just the way it is, if we are calling the game a zoo simulation game.