Anaconda is too powerful.

[MobMessenjah]

So, I love this game but I feel that it is severely lacking balance. From day one, all I hear, is my friends talking about how they can't wait for me to get an an Anaconda, and how cool it looks, how much cargo it can hold, how much money you can make with it, how it is nearly indestructible in PVE, how it is the only true road to riches, how it has the best jump range in the game, and what a great payload it has for it's cost, blah blah blah.

Eventually I earned enough up in the game to buy about two Anaconda's and instead, bought a Python. Why? I was sick of hearing about how great the Anaconda is. I found the ship to be a bit slow, and squishy, and I just fell away from the game for a while. Then the Krait MKII came out, and I traded my Python in for it, and it felt amazing!

The problem, is that while my friends kept their mouths shut for a bit, the silence spoke for itself. Then when it came down to do group missions, while they were talking to the new guy, they mentioned that he and I were, "sort-of" leeching off from the rest of the group. The sad fact is, that it is true.

For me, this is what stopped me from playing before, and what may kill my experience yet again. I'm not going to stop playing with this group, we go too far back for that. But I don't want to feel forced to play in the Anaconda.

Honestly, large ships should be slow, heavily armored, with big guns. Medium ships should be able to out-jump the large ships when properly engineered but not outmanuever small ships. Small ships should be fast, cheap combat work-horses.

Decrease the jump range on the Anaconda and increase the range on the Python and the Krait, and it will make these ships still worth-while.

 

[Elyssaen]

You're not wrong about the jump range, but reducing it now would be a nightmare, wouldn't it? Frontier can't risk trapping player ships. Nerfing ships in general is dangerous PR but if they were going to do it I'd sooner see they give it absolutely awful hull, hardness and mass lock, to reflect that it's apparently made of aerogel going off how light it is.

Your group don't sound great to me. Or strictly accurate, either. A Python, Krait, Gunship or Fer-de-Lance should be able to contribute well to any effort. If for some reason it's 'big ship or bust' with them, have you thought or trying a Cutter, Corvette or... that other one?

 

[IVAN__V]

Instead of nerfing again some more like always....maybe introduce more dynamic ???

Why are cargo ship so tiny ? Cargo ships must be huge, like 2 miles long and have 20 shields and be force to refuel only at star and after each 1 or 2 jumps, and have like 5-10 crew controlling turrets, and it needs like 10 minutes to spool the warp drive...and once it jumps it interdicts all ships logged as enemies from following it to where it jumped for 3 minutes.
Then the anaconda has something real to chew...a proper target....with insane shields and player or auto aim turrets...and yet it's a sitting duck for 10 minutes while it refuels the massive tanks...or is it ? Until the cavalry arrives. Who will win ? Maybe its shields hold, maybe it jumps, then it needs another refuel, will the enemies catch up with it in refuel mode after the 3 minutes interdiction or not ? Will more enemies show up or more cavalry ? Now that's proper game dynamic. Worthy of a cargo ship carrying 50.000 tons.

 

[sidereal6]

You're not wrong about the jump range, but reducing it now would be a nightmare

Agreed. But what they could do instead is reduce the integrity. Basically, explain the jump range by saying that it's a very light ship with a very thin skin.

...now, for explorers (or anyone who owns an anaconda) they would be grandfathered in. Basically, they'd be flying around in a ship that the game says has 200% integrity (or whatever). But for anyone using it in the bubble, any time it's damaged, it could only be repaired back to 100%, which would be less than what it was before the nerf.

And anyone buying a new one would get one at 100%.

If you wanted to use it in combat, HRPs would be mandatory (more mandatory than they are now).

 

[yianniv]

I can never understand people that want others to lose what they have so that they themselves won't feel left out.
Why nerf the conda? ask for buff on other ships, but please leave the conda alone. Everyone has the choice to use it or not. Even if it's "too good", what sort of immersion or balance does it break? is our galaxy going to spin out of its place? does it bring disturbance in the force?

Why mess with other people's game? Use your right to choose and choose another ship. It's as simple as that. Should we ask our neighbours to change their car because it's faster or fancier than our own?

This game and the devs are nerfing champions, not missing a chance to reduce payments because they break the balance. What balance? I'm triple elite, I own all big three (among others), why should allied factions pay peanuts for missions?

And now you think it's the conda's turn? No, thanks.

 

[Elyssaen]

I can never understand people that want others to lose what they have so that they themselves won't feel left out.

I think this is completely wrong re: this thread. The OP can afford an Anaconda. I own one and have the net worth to have kitted it out. Sidereal's been posting since 2016, and I'm sure he either has an Anaconda or could have one. This isn't about green-eyed monsters in Cobras and Vipers wanting the Anaconda ruined so we don't feel so inferior.

Many people would say the game would be better with 35 balanced ships than with ~10 underpowered ships, ~22 reasonable ones and ~3 overpowered ones. Most of those people are perfectly able to afford the overpowered ships. Technically you're right that proposing nerfing one of the overpowered ones is suggesting messing with other people's games, and if this was solely an offline/solo game I'd have to agree with you. Then again, we could then probably mod it and everyone could be happy. Sadly, it's an online game with PvP, so yes, balance is important. Galaxies may well spin out of place. Serious business and all.

As for immersion, if you don't think the Anaconda has immersion-breaking features, I... just honestly don't think you're that immersed. Maybe I'm not being reasonable there but... seriously? You realise it's the same weight as a Chieftain?

 

[yianniv]

I think this is completely wrong re: this thread. The OP can afford an Anaconda. I own one and have the net worth to have kitted it out. Sidereal's been posting since 2016, and I'm sure he either has an Anaconda or could have one. This isn't about green-eyed monsters in Cobras and Vipers wanting the Anaconda ruined so we don't feel so inferior.

Many people would say the game would be better with 35 balanced ships than with ~10 underpowered ships, ~22 reasonable ones and ~3 overpowered ones. Most of those people are perfectly able to afford the overpowered ships. Technically you're right that proposing nerfing one of the overpowered ones is suggesting messing with other people's games, and if this was solely an offline/solo game I'd have to agree with you. Then again, we could then probably mod it and everyone could be happy. Sadly, it's an online game with PvP, so yes, balance is important. Galaxies may well spin out of place. Serious business and all.

As for immersion, if you don't think the Anaconda has immersion-breaking features, I... just honestly don't think you're that immersed. Maybe I'm not being reasonable there but... seriously? You realise it's the same weight as a Chieftain?

Seriously, I don't mind. I'm enjoying it as a ship with great potential. I'm actually in one right now exploring (again), and it has 74.stg jump range. Why would I want to lose that? Maybe it's got the same weight as a chieftain because the brilliant scientist that constructed the hull died after it's creation and took the formula to his grave (how's that for immersion?) Don't get me wrong, maybe I'm getting across too strongly but I'm tired of all the nerfing.

I'm 48. I used to play the original elite in '86 on my amstrad cpc 6128 (I still remember the drive noise) and I love this game (I mean both). But I was late to buy ED because I don't like online/mutiplayer games (I saw it was multiplayer in Steam initially and stayed away, but then I bought it because it's elite!). That was March 2017 and I've been playing it exclusively for almost every day. I love it but I've reached also the love/hate mark. The conda is one of the highlights, maybe beause it has the potential the other ships are missing. But it's not breaking my immersion, it's strengthening it: I can do more in that ship.

I don't gank (difficult in solo and Mobius), I don't mess with other people's game - not intentionally, anyway - and the reason I take offense is because such ideas mess with my game.

It's like saying you don't want basketball players walking on the street because they stand out (I'm not a basketball player).

And, really, really, I cannot understand the 'please reduce this' attitude. Ask for more, not less. Because then you deserve what you get.

 

[SeroJu]

I mean from all these posts I see saying it has like 40 and 50 ly jumpranges i'd say definitely nerf it.

On the other side of things though, I've beat a handful of annys in a t-9 heavy... All PvE though.

What's the cargo capacity on an anaconda anyway? like, full gut, no shield

 

[yianniv]

I mean from all these posts I see saying it has like 40 and 50 ly jumpranges i'd say definitely nerf it.

On the other side of things though, I've beat a handful of annys in a t-9 heavy... All PvE though.

What's the cargo capacity on an anaconda anyway? like, full gut, no shield

466 tons. http://www.edshipyard.com/new/#/L=C60H4C0S0,mpYFBG0FBG0,,9p30ADw0AR_0Ag20Au60BCQ0BS20Bcg0,,0Bk00AA00AA00AA008c008c008c007200720072002M0

 

[Elyssaen]

I don't gank (difficult in solo and Mobius), I don't mess with other people's game - not intentionally, anyway - and the reason I take offense is because such ideas mess with my game.

Fair enough. I don't think we disagree all that much, really. Personally I'd much rather give us more (new ships and improved old ships) than nerf anything existing. I'm the sort of guy who can't play a game without a spreadsheet open analysing it and a 'proposal document' with ideas that I'll probably never post. But you'd better believe it's filled with new ship and mechanic ideas, and ways to improve under-tuned ships. There's nothing in there about the Anaconda. : )

It's worth mentioning that what I would change, having thought about it in response to this thread, are things that wouldn't bother you. I'd probably drop the hardness to 58, the base hull from 945 to 645 (just below the Corvette currently) and the mass lock factor to 18 (Beluga). These type of changes shouldn't leave many/any Anaconda commanders feeling cheated.

 

[yianniv]

It's worth mentioning that what I would change, having thought about it in response to this thread, are things that wouldn't bother you. I'd probably drop the hardness to 58, the base hull from 945 to 645 (just below the Corvette currently) and the mass lock factor to 18 (Beluga). These type of changes shouldn't leave many/any Anaconda commanders feeling cheated.

I could say 'ok, let's call Sandro' but that might change other people's game plans. If the ship looks too powerful, why not just use lower grade modules?

I guess we can agree to disagree, commander. Fly safe!

 

[SeroJu]

I'll be honest it probably isn't strong enough given the price tag. How many hours do you have to grind/sink in to things just to afford the ship let alone the modules?

Like if you're even talking about where the energy needs focused on the dev side of things, why not fix cargo/collision physics since there isn't friction in space lol.

Don't get me started on the random ship explosions while in station.. I'd have an anaconda sitting next to my t-9 in if things were properly debugged when I started playing..

Or hey how about the missions that randomly had their return destination change overnight.. yeah idk. Priorities.

 

[Red Anders]

So, I love this game but I feel that it is severely lacking balance. From day one, all I hear, is my friends talking about how they can't wait for me to get an an Anaconda, and how cool it looks, how much cargo it can hold, how much money you can make with it, how it is nearly indestructible in PVE, how it is the only true road to riches, how it has the best jump range in the game, and what a great payload it has for it's cost, blah blah blah.

Eventually I earned enough up in the game to buy about two Anaconda's and instead, bought a Python. Why? I was sick of hearing about how great the Anaconda is. I found the ship to be a bit slow, and squishy, and I just fell away from the game for a while. Then the Krait MKII came out, and I traded my Python in for it, and it felt amazing!

The problem, is that while my friends kept their mouths shut for a bit, the silence spoke for itself. Then when it came down to do group missions, while they were talking to the new guy, they mentioned that he and I were, "sort-of" leeching off from the rest of the group. The sad fact is, that it is true.

Your friends sound like a bunch of idiots. Just saying.

 

[Nero Tacitus]

Ahh, this sounds like a problem with your group, not the game.

While I admit the Conda is a bit OP, "I don't get along with my friends" isn't exactly a reason to change game mechanics. If your friends expect to dictate how you play the game, it's time for either a discussion, or a new group.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Conda's borked yeah, but it's funny to see people say "I get upset when people try to advocate something that affects my game".

Though when there is a weapon or tactic deemed OP people get all up in alms about it, completely ignoring those who think it's OK.

Silent running anyone? Yeah. That.

It's settled then. Conda gets *Smashed* with the nerf bat.

*Edit

 

[Teh Smoo]

It WOULD make sense if hull strength was at least somewhat related to mass

Anaconda:
400T hull
945 integrity

Corvette:
900T hull
666 integrity?

Cutter:
1100T hull!
720 integrity.

T9:
850T
864 integrity (seems the most balanced?)

T10:
1200T !!
1055 integrity - again, close-ish.


But just grabbing random ships, mass and integrity vary wildly. So... who knows. First person to graph all the ships with weight/integrity data points gets an internet cookie!

 

[Burke]

I havnt done much combat in this so maybe the heavy ships are fun there but flying the conda and the cutter for that matter is just boring. They are so bad that if you are trying to engineer one, all the messing about and all those little trips just makes you quit. And then they make you pay and wait to shift modules around so you cant even use a shuttle to do the legwork. The grind has been carefully thought out to be multi layer painful. Whoever did this has some kind of grudge against the players

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I havnt done much combat in this so maybe the heavy ships are fun there but flying the conda and the cutter for that matter is just boring. They are so bad that if you are trying to engineer one, all the messing about and all those little trips just makes you quit. And then they make you pay and wait to shift modules around so you cant even use a shuttle to do the legwork. The grind has been carefully thought out to be multi layer painful. Whoever did this has some kind of grudge against the players

Omg I have been saying that on several posts this evening. It's like they want us all to f*ck off so they can make something else.

 

[MobMessenjah]

First of all, I take offence to those who attempt to call my friends idiots, or simply state that I need different friends. I've played with these guys in a number of games on a nightly basis for about 3-4 years. These guys would give me the shirt off their backs if they thought I needed one. Some of them have offered to buy games for me, just so that we could continue to play together. Granted, I never took them up on that, but I appreciated the offer. They had my back on a number of accounts when false claims were made against me. They have helped me significantly with grinding out the credits that I have. The issue, is that I can't really do anything much to help them unless I run a Conda.

@yianniv, this sounds a bit like the Star Citizen backers, that claim that because they spent $27k on a ship package, they now hold ownership of the game over other players that spend less money. I don't really care how long you have played or how much you have spent, neither of us hold any ownership over any game unless you or I are the developer.

Adding a ton of all-new ships is too much to ask of the devs at this point. This would be a huge amount of work that they would be trying to do mostly for free. 1-2 ships a year seems pretty reasonable at this point, unless they start charging real money to unlock the new ships.

Buffing old ships would also take a ton of work to get the balance right in order to match the Conda. It is far easier and far more economic for the devs to fix the outlier, which happens to be the Conda. Sorry.

My problem with the ship really isn't that it is a shield/hull tank with a lot of guns. That is what the ship should be for. If you made it weaker, then it couldn't compete within the big 3.

The problem really stems from it's jump-range and cargo capacity. Think of it this way, the game I refer to, is when we run cargo wing missions, I can carry 148 cargo, and it takes me 12 jumps to make it to a destination. My buddy with an Anaconda has 500 cargo and can make the destination in 4 jumps. He has to wait for my 128 cargo to complete the mission for 15 to 20 mins. We have a third guy in Cutter at the destination waiting with 800 cargo. We complete the mission and want to do another but the guy with the Cutter has to go to bed. The next mission is twice the distance. Because I can only make 128 cargo and it will take me forever to get to the destination and back to complete the mission, everyone else drops off for the night. This is why I become the leech in the group. It is simply a fact.

Even when running solo cargo, these guys are making 3-4x the money in 1/4 the time using a Conda at far, far lower risk.

I don't really care for the big three. I don't enjoy flying large ships all that much. If everyone runs around in the big three, where is the diversity, the immersion, or the fun? What is makes the big three so special if everyone uses them all of the time? The cargo advantage for the big three, is that they are safer and can carry much more cargo, but have to make short-ranged jumps. While the mediums are higher risk if they get engaged, but can make the trip in less time but with less cargo. This would at least give them some perks and would allow medium ships to be used as multi-crew explorers and okay cargo ships. As it stands, by comparison, they are terrible cargo ships and too slow and large to dodge incoming fire and not tanky enough to take on the big 3.

 

[Red Anders]

Omg I have been saying that on several posts this evening. It's like they want us all to f*ck off so they can make something else.

They have released two games, both of which have reviewed and sold well, since this game was released. I know it's an amazing concept but game developers can actually work on more than one game franchise at once.

On the subject of the Anaconda, it's just another one of those dreary and lazy whines. The Anaconda can do a range of things well, which is after all the entire point of a multi-role ship. However it doesn't do anything better than a specialist ship. It certainly isn't the best combat ship, isn't even close to being the best cargo hauler and isn't the best miner.

It is a very good exploration ship and I'm sure someone will say 'but... but.. it's the best explorer!' but that's only true if what you really mean is 'it's the best explorer if you also want to do things other than exploring' because exploration 1) doesn't require the Anaconda's jump range and b) only requires a FSD, ADS, DSS, fuel scoop and assuming you want to land, an SRV bay. Anything else is frosting and if you have a quick look on here https://coriolis.edcd.io/ and work out how many ships you can engineer to have a jump range over 40LY with the above items equipped which cost less than an Anaconda, you'll see that calling it the best explorer is a very subjective judgement.

There is one thing that it's indisputably the best ship at though. Triggering people.