TheMegaTurnip
Banned
"Furiously smashes toy 'Conda with nerf bat"
Anaconda is too powerful.
- Thread starter MobMessenjah
- Start date
If I recall, not nearly as much as the Imp. Cutter or Type 9. The type 10 has similar cargo space to it if I recall but the Type 10 is better for combat as well compared to the Type 9. It's not bad at cargo hauling but it's not the best either. It does make for a good armed trader though if you can't get an Imp. Cutter or don't want the Type 10.
Also, the Anaconda is able to get like 70 LY jump ranges and those long jump ranges by sacrificing everything pretty much to make the ship as light as possible. You go with the lowest thrusters, no weapons, smallest shields possible, etc. You pretty much become an easy target to kill to get that kind of jump range and while it's the best exploration ship in what it brings to table for the role, it has some major tradeoffs for it as well. I.E. it's the most expensive trade ship overall (in both price and module prices), it has a limited cockpit view for exploration, it's maneuverability is pretty crap in super cruise, etc.
Those negatives of the Anaconda in exploration are why the Asp Explorer and DBX are still popular for exploration.
I like where your head is...nice ideas, but 10 minutes to spool up a jump is way too long. Some of us don't have the luxury sitting and playing for hours. For those who have to play the game of IRL, we MAY get 30 mins to an hour to play once and a while. Drop that 10 mins down a bit and it sounds like a fun mechanic. o7
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
Yeah? Could have fooled me. Seems to just be repeating ED's issues, bugs, poor AI, and badly though out UI's and GRIND.
Yeah. I read those forums as reviews.
Cmon man.
"Nerfing" Ships
Just a quick note on nefting ships...
This could be done on replacement or purchase rather than on existing vessels or modules. Call it a manufacturer recall or replacement - a fault with the old model was found and it has been replaced with a new design.
Thus avoids players getting trapped in the deep, or suddenly finding themselves overloaded. It also gives a bonus to players who can keep the old "classic" model running without getting destroyed.
Just a quick note on nefting ships...
This could be done on replacement or purchase rather than on existing vessels or modules. Call it a manufacturer recall or replacement - a fault with the old model was found and it has been replaced with a new design.
Thus avoids players getting trapped in the deep, or suddenly finding themselves overloaded. It also gives a bonus to players who can keep the old "classic" model running without getting destroyed.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
Grandfathering Anacondas, it would be a mess.
FDev should have said f.ex. at the time of 3.0 launch, that with 3.4 update Anaconda's hull mass will be doubled. By telling way in advance, everyone can prepare for the change accordingly.
You only get the extreme jump range of a Conda when you turn it into a flying paper airplane.
Outfit a Conda for combat and it jumps 18LY. Which I have one. My Combat Cutter is actually a little better jump wise then it.
I also, have a exploraconda with the Guardian FSD Booster that jumps 73LY, but guess what. It is a unarmed paper Tiger that could probably be wasted by a Sidey in 2 minutes. The shield strength is so low it is only good for minor bumps and planetary landing. The armor is so low I think my cobra has double the armor.
Outfit a Conda for combat and it jumps 18LY. Which I have one. My Combat Cutter is actually a little better jump wise then it.
I also, have a exploraconda with the Guardian FSD Booster that jumps 73LY, but guess what. It is a unarmed paper Tiger that could probably be wasted by a Sidey in 2 minutes. The shield strength is so low it is only good for minor bumps and planetary landing. The armor is so low I think my cobra has double the armor.
You've hit on a very good point here that a lot of people overlook, when they declare something as OP or even UP they cite all the maximums it can do and ignore the fact that it can't do them all at the same time. So yes the 'Conda has the 2nd longest jump range (at least pre-Guardian booster), the 5th most cargo (Cutter>T9>Corvette>T10>Anaconda) and the most raw DPS (this will start arguments everywhere) but not all on the same build, you want jump range you can't fight or haul, etc.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
Good stuff man. A very austute obseration.
But the DPS thing is a funny one, the only thing with DPS is that it's all potential on paper. Applied DPS? The challenger takes that crown. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Yeah and even if a bit op shouldn't that be the case when you're spending a ludicrous amount of time farming up the creds to deck the thing out? I get balancing it within reason or within the range of comparable ships but let's be honest here more money gets you better stuff most of the time.
Bugatti vs mercedes vs a cadillac... etc. or even just different tiers of quality from the same manufacturer.
That being said, pretty sure the t-10 has better cargo on a full gut if the other poster was accurate when he said 470T cargo on the annie or whatever. 256+128+64 just on the top three optional internals for the T-10 but keep in mind there's absolutely no option for a shield beneath class 6 so yeah.
The anny maybe a bit op just in terms of flexibility? With that mass you could use a class 5 shield gen I guess? Maybe within reason could be better for cargo hauling than the t-10 if you need shields for docking but honestly the t-10 is hands down the best smuggling ship in the game imo.
Bugatti vs mercedes vs a cadillac... etc. or even just different tiers of quality from the same manufacturer.
That being said, pretty sure the t-10 has better cargo on a full gut if the other poster was accurate when he said 470T cargo on the annie or whatever. 256+128+64 just on the top three optional internals for the T-10 but keep in mind there's absolutely no option for a shield beneath class 6 so yeah.
The anny maybe a bit op just in terms of flexibility? With that mass you could use a class 5 shield gen I guess? Maybe within reason could be better for cargo hauling than the t-10 if you need shields for docking but honestly the t-10 is hands down the best smuggling ship in the game imo.
792t Cutter
788t T-9
616t 'Vette
532t T-10
468t 'Conda
Max cargo according to Coriolis.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
Lol, ok then.
It's unbalanced AF man.
3.0 Shields. Nuff said.
(Late game PvPer. Seen enough to know that yep it's blo*dy unbalanced.)
First of all, I take offence to those who attempt to call my friends idiots, or simply state that I need different friends. I've played with these guys in a number of games on a nightly basis for about 3-4 years. These guys would give me the shirt off their backs if they thought I needed one. Some of them have offered to buy games for me, just so that we could continue to play together. Granted, I never took them up on that, but I appreciated the offer. They had my back on a number of accounts when false claims were made against me. They have helped me significantly with grinding out the credits that I have. The issue, is that I can't really do anything much to help them unless I run a Conda.
@yianniv, this sounds a bit like the Star Citizen backers, that claim that because they spent $27k on a ship package, they now hold ownership of the game over other players that spend less money. I don't really care how long you have played or how much you have spent, neither of us hold any ownership over any game unless you or I are the developer.
Adding a ton of all-new ships is too much to ask of the devs at this point. This would be a huge amount of work that they would be trying to do mostly for free. 1-2 ships a year seems pretty reasonable at this point, unless they start charging real money to unlock the new ships.
Buffing old ships would also take a ton of work to get the balance right in order to match the Conda. It is far easier and far more economic for the devs to fix the outlier, which happens to be the Conda. Sorry.
My problem with the ship really isn't that it is a shield/hull tank with a lot of guns. That is what the ship should be for. If you made it weaker, then it couldn't compete within the big 3.
The problem really stems from it's jump-range and cargo capacity. Think of it this way, the game I refer to, is when we run cargo wing missions, I can carry 148 cargo, and it takes me 12 jumps to make it to a destination. My buddy with an Anaconda has 500 cargo and can make the destination in 4 jumps. He has to wait for my 128 cargo to complete the mission for 15 to 20 mins. We have a third guy in Cutter at the destination waiting with 800 cargo. We complete the mission and want to do another but the guy with the Cutter has to go to bed. The next mission is twice the distance. Because I can only make 128 cargo and it will take me forever to get to the destination and back to complete the mission, everyone else drops off for the night. This is why I become the leech in the group. It is simply a fact.
Even when running solo cargo, these guys are making 3-4x the money in 1/4 the time using a Conda at far, far lower risk.
I don't really care for the big three. I don't enjoy flying large ships all that much. If everyone runs around in the big three, where is the diversity, the immersion, or the fun? What is makes the big three so special if everyone uses them all of the time? The cargo advantage for the big three, is that they are safer and can carry much more cargo, but have to make short-ranged jumps. While the mediums are higher risk if they get engaged, but can make the trip in less time but with less cargo. This would at least give them some perks and would allow medium ships to be used as multi-crew explorers and okay cargo ships. As it stands, by comparison, they are terrible cargo ships and too slow and large to dodge incoming fire and not tanky enough to take on the big 3.
So now we get to the core of your issues... You want to fly a smaller ship in Wing Missions.... And then you complain about your much smaller cargo capacity of your smaller ship.... On top of it, you are obviously not maximizing your Python for either jump range AND/OR cargo capacity....
So a if you optimize the Python for max cargo, no shield but A-rate everything... No engineering, and no guns
You get max cargo of 292T, and fully loaded jump range of a little over 13 LY..... not very impressive
If you want a small shield, we drop to 284T Cargo, and a slight increase to Jump range....
Now, A-rated everything is bad.... so lets strip some weight on life support, sensors, Power Distributor, power plant, thrusters. shield... D-Rate and smaller sizes... now without any engineered modules, your Python does a bit over 16 LY... That is better, now we are getting somewhere...
Now lets see what a an unlock of Engineer that does FSD upgrades will add to this Python... 25 LY on full load! and about 41 LY empty (and this with a small shield, you loose 8T cargo). Now we are talking 25 LY, that descent. And not to talk about the empty return trips doing 40 LY....
So lets do the same with a cutter. You mentioned 800 T so that is a shieldless cutter. WE optimize for cargo capacity, the only way to get close to 800T cargo. And then we optimize for jumprange.
So A-rated everything, no engineered FSD, you get 792T cargo with a jumprange of 13,5 LY.... haven't we seen this before?
Now go over this with and make it lighter again, just like with the Python. But we skip the shield, as that will loose 64T cargo. No the same Cutter have just below 16 LY jump range.... just slightly worse than you Python...
Now lets do something with the FSD and engineers... once upgraded this Cutter now have a jumprange of 24LY fully loaded, and 38 empty... (Python with tiny shields, 25LY / 41LY Python slight advantage over Cutter!!)
So how does this stack up to the Anaconda then? You mentioned he has 500T cargo, that is not trye either, but tells me he is also running a shieldless Anaconda for max cargo capacity of 468T.
Same as above, A-rate everything, remove weapons, and we get a whopping 15LY range with full load! (that does not seems very much better than the Pythomn or Cutter numbers)
A-rate was stupid, lets shed some weight and see what we get. Now we are getting somewhere, 20 LY. That is a nice improvement.
Now lets do the G5 FSD upgrade here aswell, and we have 31 LY loaded, and 55 empty. that is arguably best among these 3 ships.
So lets make a recap.
Optimzed for Cargo and jump range with engineered FSD for increades range Grade 5, (Pythons has a small shield and thus 8T lower cargo capacity)
Python, 292 T, 25 LY full load, 41 LY empty
Cutter, 792 T, 24 LY full load, 38 LY empty
Anaconda, 468 T, 31 LY full load, 55 Empty
In this example you fly the best medium ship maxed out for Cargo, becuase you like it better than an Anaconda, and you might not have ranked up your Imperial rank to buy a Cutter. Now your real Python only have half of this cargo capacity!!! Choices where made!
Then you have a Cutter who will have worse juymp range than your Python when setup equally.
And ofcourse we have the Ananconda, which arguably have a better jump range, but needs to do 2 trips to match one run for the Cutter....
The different builds in this comparison
Python:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=B050,...Om0Bcg0,,0AA00AA00AA008c008c0072005U005U003w0
Cutter:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=B0_0,...QK0BeE0,,0DI00DI00AA00AA00AA008c008c0072005U0
Anaconda:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=B060,...,0Bk00AA00AA00AA008c008c008c007200720072003w0
So once again, how is your Python configured? Because you are obviously comparing a Python not outfitted for doing Cargo runs, with a Cutter and an Anaconda outfitted for doing Cargo runs....
Unlocking any of the two engineer for upgrading your FSD is pretty easy (only one needs to be unlocked to be able to upgrade FSD):
Felicity Farseer, to gain invite, have an explorer rank of Scout or higher, that can easily be achieved, by fitting an Advanced discovery scanner and "honking" every system, no real effort. Then to unlock her, you need to provide a 1 meta alloy, that can be gathered by either buying one ("Darnielle's Progress" in system Maia) or finding one at a barnacle site.
Elvira Martuuk, travel atleast 300 LY from your station location (this distance can be viewed from your stats) 300 LY is not that hard to achieve. Then you have to give her 3 Soontill Relics "Cheranovsky City" in system Ngurii)
So this little entry into Engineeers for FSD upgrades is not that hard, and the only other requirement is that you have Horizon Expansion.
Now, lets get down to the massice difference you are using when comparing your Python wioth the Anaconda (I notice how you did not let us know how many jumps the Cutter needs)..
I use the above Ananconda as reference for the 4 jumps to the destination:
4 jumps at max 31 LY = 124 LY
You say that you need to do 12 jumps for the same distance.
124 LY on 12 jumps = 124/12 = ~10 LY per jump
Yeah, 10 LY per jump compared to 31 LY is a huge difference.....
So how did you get to only do 10 LY per jump?
The most obvious thing I came up with, is that you are doing economical route planning, as that will do 8-10LY jumps.... this conservers fuel at the cost of many more jumps....Now even your buddy in the Anaconda would be doing 12 jumps on the same distance if he plotted with economical instead of fastest.
Even if I try to make a combat Pythion with 148 T cargo, I cannot get it down to 10 LY range.... I get a minimum of 13 LY... so that could fit... If we now cmpare to above pythom without Engineered FSD, you would have had a jumprange or 16 LY, that means that your 12 jumps would be only 8 jumps... And with engineered FSD, that would be 25 LY, and transalte into 5 jumps (6 if your are unlucky)
So by just doing a few simple changes, outfit your ship for the specific task at hand, do some engineering, make sure you use the correct plotting method (fastest) you would do the same distance in 5-6 jumps then you would not be that much behind your friends... and on pair with your cutter friend.
And if your fuel run out before reaching your destination, you can always fit a fuelscoop, that will solve that issue, or another fuel tank, that will increas the number of jumps you can do. Both of these will obviously remove cargo space, but you will still carry more than you do today....
I have not even included that you now can unlock and buy an Guardian FSD booster, that will give another ~10 LY range at the cost of a cargo rack. (32T). That is added to any of the above numbers.
So before you go bashing about how unfair stuff is, you better get your facts right before you make assumptions on how things are...
As the Cutter and Anaconda are are not equal, as the Cutter carries twice the amount. You are not doing very well when it comes to hauling, as you obvciously is not configureing your ship to maximize cargo/jumprange.
So about grief about them making 3-4x money in 1/4 of the time.
First of all, you anaconda friend do Carry 3 TIMES MORE CARGO! ofcourse he is going to make more money doing that.... Your Cutter friends can cary over 5 TIMES more CARGO than you!
that is pure math, if you REFUSE, yes you do, to fly an optimized ship for max profit of doing Cargo runs, then of course you will make LESS money compared to those who do...
You are not even keeping up witha cargo Pythin, that will do TWICE the CARGO you currently do!!!!
Add to this, if you are using economicla route planning, then this is also on you for not optimizing for jumprange. And of course doing 31 LY jumps compared 10 will make it go faster, adn even the Cutter at 24 LY compared to 10 LY will also make it go faster.... and yet, if you optimized, the figures would be quite different.
Python, Cutter, Anaconda
5 jumps, 6 jumps, 4 jumps
292T, 468T, 792T
1x, 1.6x, 2.7x more cargo
Now they would still make more money, as they chooses bigger ships... that can carry more... but the would no longer do it on 1/4 of the time....
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
*Continues smashing model conda with nerf bat* *Pauses..* *Continues smashing model conda with the nerf bat*
Only thing I find odd is the anaconda weighing less than half of any of the other heavy ships. Especially weird that it weighs less than a corvette but has better armour.